Is god moral ?

Re: That's not universal

Originally posted by Flores
How about people who can't control themselves....babies who can't walk unless you move them, who can't dress, unless you dress them, who can't eat unless you feed them, who can't wipe their butts, unless you do it for them, the young, the very old, the sick, the mentally challenged, ect....
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That's not controlling them. I'm talking about controlling their intentions. If they need help doing things, then they do. But otherwise, don't control them. Babies can't make their own decisions, so you have to choose some things for them. But make it to your own best judgement.

Originally posted by Flores
God does that everyday and you claim that god is moral. He designed us to die.
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No I didn't. I never even claimed 'God' existed.

Originally posted by Flores
God makes sick babies die. Hurricans and earthquakes kill babies and adults..Viruses created by god kill babies..ect....Do you suggest that god, viruses, and hurricans are immoral?
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Obviously things like diseases and hurricanes are not self-conscious...therefore cannot be moral or immoral. You know what Flores...I smacked my elbow on my dresser yesterday...it shouldn't have stood in my way like that. Guess the dresser is immoral. Right....sounds stupid.

Originally posted by Flores
Very basic indeed....great job defining morality while answering to the question of whether god is moral or not?.
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God cannot be moral or immoral. If he is the unmoved mover then he makes morality. He is only following what he created, and if he didn't follow it, it would change what moral is. So he is always technically moral, but still morality cannot really apply to him.
 
Re: Re: That's not universal

Originally posted by DarkEyedBeauty
That's not controlling them. I'm talking about controlling their intentions. If they need help doing things, then they do.
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Pretty subjective aint it???? How do you know that those kids need our help? Just because you said so??? Just becasue you predetermined that diapers are a good thing, day cares are good thing, schooling is good thing, parenting is a good thing.... Perhaps they prefer to die out of small pox and shorten their agony of life...or perhaps they prefer to be parented by the community and not by the parents.....Perhaps the slave master think he's helping his slaves and taking care of them....Who draws the line between help and control....


Originally posted by DarkEyedBeauty
Obviously things like diseases and hurricanes are not self-conscious...therefore cannot be moral or immoral.
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How do you know???. Have you ever lived the life of a tiny virus to know whether the virus is conscious or not....Have you ever became the forces of a hurricane to know for a fact if the hurricane is conscious or not???? How do you know anything about consciousness, and you can't even hear nor see anything outside of your limited designed threshhold and tiny degrees. Your hearing is limited on the hearing charts to certain decibles....dogs can hear whistles that are silent to you, your sight is very limited on the sight charts, your perceptions are limited, you can only see certain colors, feel certain threshholds, your life is indeed limited in the time chart, and here you go defining morality and accusing hurricans and diseases of being unconscious......go figure???

Originally posted by DarkEyedBeauty
You know what Flores...I smacked my elbow on my dresser yesterday...it shouldn't have stood in my way like that. Guess the dresser is immoral. Right....sounds stupid.
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Indeed, you sound extremely stupid.


Originally posted by DarkEyedBeauty
God cannot be moral or immoral. If he is the unmoved mover then he makes morality.
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Unmoved mover...I have to admit, that's an interesting analogy...Would you characterize your definition of morality, or your basic ideas regarding morality as moving or unmoving???

Originally posted by DarkEyedBeauty
He is only following what he created,
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You just said that he is unmoved, how can he follow anything if he is unmoved??
 
Re: Re: Re: That's not universal

Originally posted by Flores
Pretty subjective aint it???? How do you know that those kids need our help? Just because you said so??? Just becasue you predetermined that diapers are a good thing, day cares are good thing, schooling is good thing, parenting is a good thing.... Perhaps they prefer to die out of small pox and shorten their agony of life...or perhaps they prefer to be parented by the community and not by the parents.....Perhaps the slave master think he's helping his slaves and taking care of them....Who draws the line between help and control....
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The reason it is assumed that babies don't want to die of diseases is that humans don't want to die of diseases, and we were all babies once. Why should there come a new breed of babies that would wish to die. Of course there is always a fine line in the middle of things. However, there are times when you know you are helping someone, and when you know you are controlling someone.


Originally posted by Flores
How do you know???. Have you ever lived the life of a tiny virus to know whether the virus is conscious or not....Have you ever became the forces of a hurricane to know for a fact if the hurricane is conscious or not???? How do you know anything about consciousness, and you can't even hear nor see anything outside of your limited designed threshhold and tiny degrees. Your hearing is limited on the hearing charts to certain decibles....dogs can hear whistles that are silent to you, your sight is very limited on the sight charts, your perceptions are limited, you can only see certain colors, feel certain threshholds, your life is indeed limited in the time chart, and here you go defining morality and accusing hurricans and diseases of being unconscious......go figure???
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Morality as applied to humans. Please, don't put words in my mouth. I don't know a thing about the moral code of trees, viruses and natural forces. How could I, I am not one of them.


Originally posted by Flores
Indeed, you sound extremely stupid.
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Only following your ideas.


Originally posted by Flores
Unmoved mover...I have to admit, that's an interesting analogy...Would you characterize your definition of morality, or your basic ideas regarding morality as moving or unmoving???
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It's a term in philosophy. It means that nothing created him, but he created all. It's to objectify 'God'.


Originally posted by Flores
You just said that he is unmoved, how can he follow anything if he is unmoved??
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You cut this clip from a paragraph which basically said that he can't do things immorally or morally, therefore cannot follow morality. Learn to quote properly.
 
I'm reading Camus "the rebel' just now, I think it is germane to the current discussion.
 
Re: Re: Is god moral ?

Originally posted by Q25
how do you know it was god?
couldnt all this Universe be just a chemical reaction?
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my dear friend, chemical reaction never go deep into atomic structure.
 
ummm there is no such thing as a correct moral. Read my previous entry why. I think some people just skipped it. So if you guys are arguing about who has the right moral its pointless.
 
Originally posted by ItalianItellectual
ummm there is no such thing as a correct moral. Read my previous entry why. I think some people just skipped it. So if you guys are arguing about who has the right moral its pointless.
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I would replace the word "right" with "appropriate".
There is fuzzy area between the two and also black/white areas where you can tell correct from incorrect.
 
READ THIS!

What right do we have to tell someones morals are wrong? Its kinda like a pardox, there cant be a right moral, all morals are wrong, or UNAPPROPIATE. you cant say that someones morals are incorrect because a group of people say they are, once again morals are like an opinion. None of them are wrong and yet all of them are wrong, because if one moral goes against another, and another goes against another etc. all morals would be wrong, becasue their would be a moral against another moral.
 
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Originally posted by yinyinwang
Does god konw what he was doing if he set off the big bang?
Is god moral in doing so?
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God is moral because he's absolute and the standard of measurement for morality. In other words, it's a self-referential measurement. That is, if you believe in either "God" or "morality."
 
Re: READ THIS!

Originally posted by ItalianItellectual
What right do we have to tell someones morals are wrong? Its kinda like a pardox, there cant be a right moral, all morals are wrong, or UNAPPROPIATE. you cant say that someones morals are incorrect because a group of people say they are, once again morals are like an opinion. None of them are wrong and yet all of them are wrong, because if one moral goes against another, and another goes against another etc. all morals would be wrong, becasue their would be a moral against another moral.
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No.
when one goes against another, we should go upper level, a system that includes both, not by side.
 
I thought god wasnt moral, cos he/ she/ it has created this world whcich includes suffering.
 
Re: Re: Re: Is god moral ?

Originally posted by yinyinwang
my dear friend, chemical reaction never go deep into atomic structure.
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I see,
still I dont like to say god did it for the simple reason that god's description/definition is not very logical.
Id rather say forces of nature:p
anyhow whatever force set of BB why should it be imoral?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is god moral ?

Originally posted by Q25
I see,
still I dont like to say god did it for the simple reason that god's description/definition is not very logical.
Id rather say forces of nature:p
anyhow whatever force set of BB why should it be imoral?
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We have seen so much suffering, it is natural to ask why.
 
Originally posted by guthrie
I thought god wasnt moral, cos he/ she/ it has created this world whcich includes suffering.
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Just suppose for a second there is a God...

If there was no suffering, then we could not know what pleasure is. Just like, if there was no darkness we would only know light. Our pupils would not dilate, they wouldn't be built to experience anything other than constant light. So....if there were no suffering, we would not be built to experience anything other than pleasure, which in the long run, isn't pleasure. We would constantly feel numb.

So much for causing suffering being immoral. I'd say it's very noble of said God...wanting us to have highs, and all.
 
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