Is God an unscientific theory?

Well technically you can falsify basically anything, all you have to do to falsify something is to show that an alternative hypothesis is true...

Falsifiability (or disprovability) is the logical possibility that an assertion can be shown false by an observation or a physical experiment. It is important to note that "falsifiable" does not mean false; rather, it means that something is capable of being shown to be false in the event that contrary examples or exceptions to the assertion actually exist. Falsifiability is an important concept in science and the philosophy of science.

Evolution happens to be true.
 
What would prove God doesn't exist? That evolution is true? It is!
Evolution is evidence that there is no creator who made humans 6,000 years ago...so it is evidence that many possible gods do not exist...

If there is evidence for the supernatural (discovered BY science) then it would become natural, by definition.
No, something "supernatural" is something "outside of nature", how would it become natural?

Oli said:
Incorrect, science has investigated what was once considered supernatural, thunder and lightning, for example.
They turned out not to be supernatural at all.
No they didn't, all they did was observe natural phenomenon and try to understand it...
 
Falsifiability (or disprovability) is the logical possibility that an assertion can be shown false by an observation or a physical experiment. It is important to note that "falsifiable" does not mean false; rather, it means that something is capable of being shown to be false in the event that contrary examples or exceptions to the assertion actually exist. Falsifiability is an important concept in science and the philosophy of science.

Evolution happens to be true.

Yeah, I agree, the way you falsify something is by showing that an alternative hypothesis is true...

So natural selection then is NOT science by your own standards, there is no observation or physical experiment that can show that it's false...
 
Yeah, I agree, the way you falsify something is by showing that an alternative hypothesis is true...

So natural selection then is NOT science by your own standards, there is no observation or physical experiment that can show that it's false...

It is observable.
 
No, something "supernatural" is something "outside of nature", how would it become natural?
Because science can only concern itself with natural phenomena - that's the definition of science - see above about forming hypotheses and models.
If it can be studied by science then it's scientific...

No they didn't, all they did was observe natural phenomenon and try to understand it...
Which had a supernatural "explanation" that turned out to be incorrect.
For many years/ decades whatever it was assumed to be caused by the "gods"
 
Something thought to be supernatural can turn out to be natural.
I agree with this definitely, but what if scientists discovered that there was something outside of nature or reality from which nature and reality come from? Wouldn't it then still be supernatural?

It is observable.
But it's not falisfiable, so it shouldn't be included into science according to you all...if it is falsifiable then tell me what observation or experiment would show that natural selection is false...
 
I agree with this definitely, but what if scientists discovered that there was something outside of nature or reality from which nature and reality come from? Wouldn't it then still be supernatural?
No, it would be natural. It would have to be included in the concept 'natural'.

But it's not falisfiable, so it shouldn't be included into science according to you all...if it is falsifiable then tell me what observation or experiment would show that natural selection is false...
If it didnt occur... :bugeye:
 
Put it this way. Are poltergeists a scientific theory to explain noises of unexplained origin in an old house?
 
But it's not falisfiable, so it shouldn't be included into science according to you all...if it is falsifiable then tell me what observation or experiment would show that natural selection is false...
A population of creatures with a characteristic that isn't required at all for the environment they live in?
Or creatures without a characteristic that would be considered necessary for survival.
 
You can craft an experiment to show natural selection doesn't exist or isn't a force in shaping living things. Just use artificial selection to remove certain animals, perhaps fruit flies, that show certain characterstics. After some time doing this, observe if there is an effect on the characteristics of the newborns.
 
But it's not falisfiable, so it shouldn't be included into science according to you all...if it is falsifiable then tell me what observation or experiment would show that natural selection is false...

Darwinian natural selection is falsifiable, because in principle one could find evidence that (i) genes are not randomly mutating and/or that (ii) reproductive pressures were not favoring certain of the mutations that yielded a survival advantage. Stated differently, you could either find evidence that the genomes of living things were basically fixed and static within certain limits or that those individual changes play little or no role in determining what individuals survive in the long run. Either one would put the nail in Darwin's theory of natural selection.

"Falsifiable" does not mean that the hypothesis under review can be disproved with a single, smoking gun, observation (though that might be the case in certain instances). In the case of natural selection, no one observation can falsify it, but that doesn't make it unfalsifiable.

On the other hand, "God did it" is unfalsifiable, because God gets invoked as an explanation for almost anything. God makes it rain, He punishes the wicked, He rewards the virtuous, but He also makes it not rain, He rewards the wicked and punishes (or "tests") the virtuous—all in equal measure. We sum up all His actions we can't explain rationally with "God works in mysterious ways," but in the end all that means is that God works in ways that are so incomprehensible to us that we cannot predict them, nor use them to in any way conclusively demonstrate that He is having any direct or indirect effect on the universe at all.

In principle, "God did it" can be a plausible explanation to a believer for anything at all or any series of things, good or bad, positive or negative. In contrast, if unfit creatures start surviving in droves with the more fit dying off, at some point even believers in natural selection have to start admitting that those creatures are anomalous exceptions to the rule. If you build up enough such exceptions, then you show, in effect, that natural selection cannot be the significant cause of the diversity of life.

It just so happens that most life seems to be very well adapted to the niche it fills...that might be because God designs them (and why would God design them to be maladapted?), but it also fits natural selection...and it happens to leave natural selection (Darwinian or not) almost unassailable on scientific grounds. Of course the well adapted outcompete the maladapted—it's almost a tautology (since the "one that survived" may often be dubbed the "well adapted" one by virtue of its survival alone). Even if natural selection were a crock, that would likely be true. So one is very unlikely to disprove natural selection by disproving "the survival of the fittest."

Good news for natural selection though, it doesn't have to prove it's right...it just has to withstand attempts to disprove it. The anti-evolution camp has an unhill fight on its hands.
 
is physics an unscientific theory/science? probably, because there is no way to prove that the world is physical...

Put it this way. Are poltergeists a scientific theory to explain noises of unexplained origin in an old house?

yes because we know that poltergeists exist
 
I think for some of you boys, (John/Vital one), the best start would be a "science for dummies" book or something because you're clearly not understanding what has been said to you. As a result I shall give you something from sciencemadesimple.com as I feel that will say things in a manner you'll be able to grasp easier:

"The steps of the Scientific Method are:
Observation/Research
Hypothesis
Prediction
Experimentation
Conclusion "

Ok so we have

1) Observation/research

Now, with respect to reading old books I suppose you can 'research' gods, but you certainly can't observe them.

2) Hypothesis

"The hypothesis is a simple statement that defines what you think the outcome of your experiment will be. All of the first stage of the Scientific Method -- the observation, or research stage -- is designed to help you express a problem in a single question ("Does the amount of sunlight in a garden affect tomato size?") and propose an answer to the question based on what you know. The experiment that you will design is done to test the hypothesis. "

So, your hypothesis here is "does a god exist"

3) Prediction

This is where you get to demonstrate how you will show your hypothesis as being true. In the case of tomatoes you could predict that tomatoes that receive less sunlight will be smaller than those that receive more sunlight while both given the same level of care.

So, what is your prediction concerning your god hypothesis? How do you aim to show that your hypothesis is accurate?

4) Experimentation

So, what's your experiment? Without one how scientific did you think you were being? Hell have you even come up with a prediction yet? It's all well and good to say "I have faith a god exists", but if you cannot get beyond that point where is the science exactly? Do you John/Vital claim that "science" is merely suggesting that something exists and done with it? "I believe leprechauns exist" <-- hey look, it's science.. Do me a lemon.

So: explain your prediction then explain your experiment or stfu.

No point mentioning "conclusion", you boys haven't even begun. :bugeye:
 
No, it would be natural. It would have to be included in the concept 'natural'.
Why would it have to be included into the concept of nature if it's outside of nature, outside of the system?

Enmos said:
If it didnt occur... :bugeye:
You can ALWAYS say nature-did-it regardless, which is why the nature of gaps, naturalism, and natural selection is unfalsifiable...

There are innumerable, in fact hundreds of different theories in science that are unfalsifiable, you atheists keep playing these games...when will you just admit that they don't want God to be a theory because it goes against naturalism...

Put it this way. Are poltergeists a scientific theory to explain noises of unexplained origin in an old house?
Yes, definitely...although a bad theory

A population of creatures with a characteristic that isn't required at all for the environment they live in?
Or creatures without a characteristic that would be considered necessary for survival.
But you can still say this all happened naturally through natural selection...so it doesn't falsify anything, all the stuff you listed has already been found and doesn't falsify natural selection...biologists just say "oh well, we know it could've happened through natural selection, case closed"

You can craft an experiment to show natural selection doesn't exist or isn't a force in shaping living things. Just use artificial selection to remove certain animals, perhaps fruit flies, that show certain characterstics. After some time doing this, observe if there is an effect on the characteristics of the newborns.
Artificial selection doesn't really falsify natural selection...they both exists, for instance different breeds of dogs were created through aritificial selection...this doesn't falsify natural selection, biologists don't say that natural selection must be false...

Darwinian natural selection is falsifiable, because in principle one could find evidence that (i) genes are not randomly mutating and/or that (ii) reproductive pressures were not favoring certain of the mutations that yielded a survival advantage. Stated differently, you could either find evidence that the genomes of living things were basically fixed and static within certain limits or that those individual changes play little or no role in determining what individuals survive in the long run. Either one would put the nail in Darwin's theory of natural selection.

"Falsifiable" does not mean that the hypothesis under review can be disproved with a single, smoking gun, observation (though that might be the case in certain instances). In the case of natural selection, no one observation can falsify it, but that doesn't make it unfalsifiable.
All the stuff you listed has already been found...none of this makes anyone think that natural selection is false, it is just a gap...

Pandaemoni said:
On the other hand, "God did it" is unfalsifiable, because God gets invoked as an explanation for almost anything. God makes it rain, He punishes the wicked, He rewards the virtuous, but He also makes it not rain, He rewards the wicked and punishes (or "tests") the virtuous—all in equal measure. We sum up all His actions we can't explain rationally with "God works in mysterious ways," but in the end all that means is that God works in ways that are so incomprehensible to us that we cannot predict them, nor use them to in any way conclusively demonstrate that He is having any direct or indirect effect on the universe at all.

In principle, "God did it" can be a plausible explanation to a believer for anything at all or any series of things, good or bad, positive or negative. In contrast, if unfit creatures start surviving in droves with the more fit dying off, at some point even believers in natural selection have to start admitting that those creatures are anomalous exceptions to the rule. If you build up enough such exceptions, then you show, in effect, that natural selection cannot be the significant cause of the diversity of life.

It just so happens that most life seems to be very well adapted to the niche it fills...that might be because God designs them (and why would God design them to be maladapted?), but it also fits natural selection...and it happens to leave natural selection (Darwinian or not) almost unassailable on scientific grounds. Of course the well adapted outcompete the maladapted—it's almost a tautology (since the "one that survived" may often be dubbed the "well adapted" one by virtue of its survival alone). Even if natural selection were a crock, that would likely be true. So one is very unlikely to disprove natural selection by disproving "the survival of the fittest."

Good news for natural selection though, it doesn't have to prove it's right...it just has to withstand attempts to disprove it. The anti-evolution camp has an unhill fight on its hands.
ahahaha...what about nature-did-it explanation, you can ALWAYS say regardless of anything in every imaginable circumstance that "nature-did-it", so it's unfalsifiable...the nature of gaps or in other words "anything gaps or unknowns can just be filled in by nature, it just happened in some unknown naturalistic way, case closed"
 
I think for some of you boys, (John/Vital one), the best start would be a "science for dummies" book or something because you're clearly not understanding what has been said to you. As a result I shall give you something from sciencemadesimple.com as I feel that will say things in a manner you'll be able to grasp easier:

"The steps of the Scientific Method are:
Observation/Research
Hypothesis
Prediction
Experimentation
Conclusion "

Ok so we have

1) Observation/research

Now, with respect to reading old books I suppose you can 'research' gods, but you certainly can't observe them.

2) Hypothesis

"The hypothesis is a simple statement that defines what you think the outcome of your experiment will be. All of the first stage of the Scientific Method -- the observation, or research stage -- is designed to help you express a problem in a single question ("Does the amount of sunlight in a garden affect tomato size?") and propose an answer to the question based on what you know. The experiment that you will design is done to test the hypothesis. "

So, your hypothesis here is "does a god exist"

3) Prediction

This is where you get to demonstrate how you will show your hypothesis as being true. In the case of tomatoes you could predict that tomatoes that receive less sunlight will be smaller than those that receive more sunlight while both given the same level of care.

So, what is your prediction concerning your god hypothesis? How do you aim to show that your hypothesis is accurate?

4) Experimentation

So, what's your experiment? Without one how scientific did you think you were being? Hell have you even come up with a prediction yet? It's all well and good to say "I have faith a god exists", but if you cannot get beyond that point where is the science exactly? Do you John/Vital claim that "science" is merely suggesting that something exists and done with it? "I believe leprechauns exist" <-- hey look, it's science.. Do me a lemon.

So: explain your prediction then explain your experiment or stfu.

No point mentioning "conclusion", you boys haven't even begun. :bugeye:

Thanks for this post, the God theory meets and fulfills all of these requirements except for experimentation
 
Vital One:

You *** ! I refuse to react to that, read snakelords post !
I will say one thing: Why is the poltergheist theory a bad one ? Explain that.
 
Thanks for this post, the God theory meets and fulfills all of these requirements except for experimentation

Glad to be of help. Of course it's failure indicates that it isn't 'science'. Furthermore, it fails on prediction as well, (unless you can make a prediction to answer 'does a god exist')?

However, I shall run you through the format up to the level you admit to being at and we can decide whether you think it's "science":

1) I have actually observed leprechaun looking things - they're probably leprechauns. I have also researched vastly into the historical aspect of leprechauns and indeed the phenomenon in the modern age including a 400,000 people strong leprechaun hunt in Alabama and the observing of clovers and holes in the bottom of trees which is not direct observation but indirect observation, (in the same manner that John claimed observing the universes complexity is observing god).

2) My hypothesis is "[do] leprechauns exist"

3) I predict that if I get to the end of the rainbow I shall meet the leprechauns that live there and thus show that leprechauns do indeed exist.

4) Bugger me sideways.. I can't conduct that experiment.

Is this science? Lol, no it isn't. It worked ok up until number 3, but failed catastrophically on number 4 and thus is not science and isn't worth the 2 minutes 32 seconds I spent typing this.
 
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Glad to be of help. Of course it's failure indicates that it isn't 'science'. Furthermore, it fails on prediction as well, (unless you can make a prediction to answer 'does a god exist')?

However, I shall run you through the format up to the level you admit to being at and we can decide whether you think it's "science":

1) I have actually observed leprechaun looking things - they're probably leprechauns. I have also researched vastly into the historical aspect of leprechauns and indeed the phenomenon in the modern age including a 400,000 people strong leprechaun hunt in Alabama and the observing of clovers and holes in the bottom of trees which is not direct observation but indirect observation, (in the same manner that John claimed observing the universes complexity is observing god).

2) My hypothesis is "[do] leprechauns exist"

3) I predict that if I get to the end of the rainbow I shall meet the leprechauns that live there and thus show that leprechauns do indeed exist.

4) Bugger me sideways.. I can't conduct that experiment.

Is this science? Lol, no it isn't. It worked ok up until number 3, but failed catastrophically on number 4 and thus is not science and isn't worth the 2 minutes 32 seconds I spent typing this.

Thanks again for this post! If this isn't science, then that's great, since the God theory is nothing like this, not even to the slighest most remote extent...
 
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