Is forcing sex on a pornstar the same as rape?

[Repo Man]

It could also be that you're looking at sexual intercourse being the equivalent of filing paperwork. Both can be inconvenient, after all.

If someone agrees to do it in exchange for money, they have much in common. Is working in the porn industry not a legitimate way to make a living in your opinion?

 

[Tiassa]

If someone agrees to do it in exchange for money, they have much in common. Is working in the porn industry not a legitimate way to make a living in your opinion?

That is beside the point. If I steal a pack of gum, is it the same thing as stealing a car?

Repo, when was the last time you had someone else's penis inside your body?

 

[shorty_37]

Repo, when was the last time you had someone else's penis inside your body?

Well they chose to do that job!

 

[Repo Man]

That is beside the point. If I steal a pack of gum, is it the same thing as stealing a car?

They are both forms of theft. Laws generally recognize that the value of what has been stolen will change the punishment for the crime. Filing papers and acting in adult films are both legal at this time. Do you consider employment theft?

Repo, when was the last time you had someone else's penis inside your body?

That would be never, your point? I've never acted in adult films, I've never been a stripper, I've never posed nude for money, I've never been a soldier and killed for my country. Am I allowed to have opinions on those subjects? A list of professions I haven't done could be quite long.

 

[iceaura]

But is forcing sex on a prostitute rape or robbery?

Both.

 

[Repo Man]

Both.

Wouldn't it depend on whether she was raped by a potential john or not? I'd say a non paying customer might change the classification from sex for money to rape. But if a prostitute is simply a victim of convenience by a serial rapist, then it would be standard rape, same as any other victim.

 

[Gustav]

I've never acted in adult films, I've never been a stripper, I've never posed nude for money, I've never been a soldier and killed for my country.

i feel your pain, buddy

/saddened

 

[James R]

Rape is defined as forced, unwanted sex.

Rape is sex without consent. Force is not required.

A pornstar usually does not select her sexual partners, and her contract covers issues about allowing her body to be legally traded et cetera.

Such a contract would be illegal if it amounted to slavery - allowing one's body to be traded by somebody else.

I am certain that if she were to see some male she did not want to film with (have sex with) for whatever reason, she could complain, but her manager would nearly enforce the situation because she is binded by contract.

No court would order the enforcement of such a contract, so no employer could enforce it either.

Is she being raped? Does that contract she signed free the male or manager from any responsibility for her discomfort? What would a court say?

A court would say she needs to consent to all acts of sex. If she does not consent, it is rape. Moreover, the civil employment contract would be unenforceable if it obliged her to have sex without consent.

If someone in the porn industry doesn't want to have sex with someone, but agrees to because the alternative is losing their job, that is still consenting to have sex.

Correct.

Hmm. But is forcing sex on a prostitute rape or robbery?

Rape. Rape is sex without consent. Simple.

I don't know why so many people have trouble grasping such a simple concept.

Wouldn't it depend on whether she was raped by a potential john or not?

No. Sex without consent is rape.

I'd say a non paying customer might change the classification from sex for money to rape.

No. What is important is whether she consented to sex at the time of the sex itself. Failure to pay does not turn the sex into rape automatically. Failure to pay is (just) breach of contract.

But if a prostitute is simply a victim of convenience by a serial rapist, then it would be standard rape, same as any other victim.

Any sex without consent is rape.

 

[Michael]

What is sex by coercion? If the person thinking that they NEED the job, their life depends on it, and the employer takes advantage of that fear and uses it against the person to get sex - what's that? Isn't it rape?

 

[Till Eulenspiegel]

Forcing sex on anyone is rape. It isn't only rape when the person being forced to have sex is a prim and proper school marm. It is rape even when the person being forced to have sex is a slut or a whore. The operative word is forced.

 

[Repo Man]

No. Sex without consent is rape.

I was responding to defining the rape of a prostitute as both rape and robbery. I didn't dispute that it was rape, just that it could only be defined as robbery if it were by a customer (theft of her services). Failure to pay may not reclassify it as rape, but the rape of a prostitute by someone who was not a customer certainly isn't robbery.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Did any of those tasks involve letting someone put his penis inside your body? I mean, I understand your point, but cleaning the staff restroom (one of my least-favorite tasks) is a far cry from sexual intercourse.

Is that really worse than working in a coal mine, inhaling dust that poison your lungs and living with the constant risk of a cave in?

 

[Challenger78]

Rape is defined as forced, unwanted sex. A pornstar usually does not select her sexual partners, and her contract covers issues about allowing her body to be legally traded et cetera. I am certain that if she were to see some male she did not want to film with (have sex with) for whatever reason, she could complain, but her manager would nearly enforce the situation because she is binded by contract. Is she being raped? Does that contract she signed free the male or manager from any responsibility for her discomfort? What would a court say?

It's her damn job, get used to it. Jeez, even pornstars have rights today...despite the fact that they make millions.

 

[redarmy11]

They probably get really well-paid and they probably love shagging. They're probably all too lazy and stupid to operate a checkout so they probably all like lying on their backs watching the dollars roll in. They can choose their level of involvement. If they don't like being peed on they can probably just do those made-for-TV ones that never live up to their promises, and that just seem to be exercises in viewer frustration.

They probably all love it and get paid millions and no-one is forcing them.

 

[Grantywanty]

Is that really worse than working in a coal mine, inhaling dust that poison your lungs and living with the constant risk of a cave in?

When I make this kind of point I tend to be labeled a lefty. In any case, good point.

 

[Tiassa]

That would be never, your point?

That you have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about. It's no wonder you're looking at sexual intercourse as the violative equivalent of having to listen to a disgruntled customer.

• • •​

I don't know why so many people have trouble grasping such a simple concept.

I can't figure out to what extent they're trying to justify their own attitudes. But it seems to me that somewhere in this "paperwork is rape" argument is a craven desire to license any form of rape.

• • •​

What is sex by coercion? If the person thinking that they NEED the job, their life depends on it, and the employer takes advantage of that fear and uses it against the person to get sex - what's that? Isn't it rape?

Consent given under duress is not proper consent.

• • •​

Is that really worse than working in a coal mine, inhaling dust that poison your lungs and living with the constant risk of a cave in?

I don't think it's a proper comparison. In other words, while I think coal mines involve atrocious, dehumanizing conditions, I don't see the connection between entering a dangerous area and having a penis inserted into your body.

When did you last have another person's penis inside your body, Madanthonywayne?

 

[redarmy11]

B... bu..

It's not rape though, is it Tiassa? Candi is perfectly consenting, and free to seek alternative employ.

 

[Tiassa]

It's not rape though, is it Tiassa? Candi is perfectly consenting, and free to seek alternative employ.

Consent given under duress is not valid consent.

Yes. It is rape.

Candi is perfectly consenting, and free to seek alternative employ.

I've noticed that even though I've made certain points about the industry and asked for something more specific, people are unwilling to clarify. Thus, we're left at a general consideration.

I want you to consider the exchange:

Labor Investigator: We have a complaint that you would not pay a woman for work done on your film unless she had sex with a man she did not want to have sex with.

Porn Producer: Well, she violated her contract.

Labor Investigator: How so?

Porn Producer: By not having sex with the man.

Labor Investigator: Are you saying she was contractually obliged to have sex with this man?

Porn Producer: Yes.

Labor Investigator: And her payment was contingent upon fulfilling this act under the contract?

Porn Producer: Yes.

Labor Investigator: Are you saying that you are organizing and patronizing prostitution?

Porn Producer: Er ... um ... er ... the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution says I do not have to answer that question.​

 

[redarmy11]

B.. bu..

The specifics of the industry are, with regard to the present context:

1. The employee is free to seek alternative employ.
2. The employee is free to make an allegation of rape, or attempted rape, or report any other crime, at the earliest opportunity afforded her.
3. The employee is free to have sex with any big, ugly brute she pleases. And...
4. To not do.

I would ask you to consider this exchange:

Porn Producer: Hi Candi, welcome to Sleezy B Productions. Take your coat off, please - and then have sex with this man. {points}
Candi: I, uh... say what?
Porn Producer: Take your coat off, please - and then have sex with this man. {points}
Candi: I, uh... what, you mean right now!?
Porn Producer: Yes, please - and hurry. Time is money. Come along, we haven't got all day.
Candi: Oh wait, wait a second... you mean I have to have sex?
Porn Producer: {Stares disbelievingly} Well, er, yes, er... Candi, why do you think you're here?
Candi: Er, um... well I came about the cleaner's job?
Porn Producer: Ah...

In other words, the dirty little slags know exactly what they're getting into and no-one's forcing them to have sex for money.

I don't see the problem?

[ok, so maybe the younger one's might need a bit of guidance. They do have legal recourse though if anyone does force them to do anything they don't want to. It's weird though - I don't think I've ever heard of a single case. Probably it's just that I haven't looked.

Looks.]

 

[redarmy11]

Nada.

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_091807WAB_wsu_adult_star_rape_LJ.e6e028a1.html