finewine:
You sound a little confused.
It seems to me that most vegetarians respect the rights of animals AND of human foetuses. They would not eat either of them.
On the other hand, most pro-life proponents are, strangely enough, meat eaters. While they march through the streets demanding rights for unborn children, at the same time they are quite happy to completely ignore the rights of animals not to be killed and eaten arbitrarily. To me, that seems hypocritical. If they say they respect life, then why is it not ALL life, but only human life (born or unborn)?
No vegetarian is advocating that we eat human foetuses, as far as I can see.
A fetus is not dead until it is aborted. It is living and suffers the same if not worse "pain" that farmed animals do.
I very much doubt that it suffers "the same if not worse pain", especially before the point where it has a fully developed nervous system. But let's suppose it does. Then we have an argument for not killing foetuses AND not eating meat. You still haven't presented a good reason why it is ok to eat meat.
Where is a living fetus' rights? The 'superiour' of its kind has the 'right' to kill it. Why?
First, realise that it is not a blanket right. In the 3rd trimester of pregnancy, for example, abortions are very rare indeed, and in my opinion the unborn child has greater rights at that time than in the first trimester.
Second, realise that we need to balance (at least) two sets of rights here: the rights of the mother and the rights of the foetus itself. If the mother's rights win the battle, then the mother has the right to terminate the pregnancy. Right-to-lifers generally downplay the interests of the mother, making the interests of the foetus paramount in all situations.
We could at least give its death meaning by eating it, couldn't we? I do know byproducts are used in medicine and beauty lotions but surely why not feed the masses of starving by farming out the killed fetus like we farm out the killed animals.
Well, we
could eat aborted foetuses, but I think you'll find that most people would find that a distasteful thing to do, for many reasons. I challenge you, in particular, to find a single vegetarian who will support your proposal.
No, I do not see the difference , a fetus is an unborn child in the womb of its mother. I have had five children. When does a fetus become a child when it is born?? Hell no, it is a child, living and breathing as a fetus in the womb and then its next stage of development is called newborn, then toddler, then youth, than adolecent, then young adult, then adult, then senior citizen.
I agree. Now, consider: do senior citizens have the same rights as adults? No. For example, adults are not entitled to discounts for certain things which are given to senior citizens.
Do adolescents have the same rights as adults? No. They are not allowed to vote, or drink or drive a car.
So, why do you assume that an unborn foetus should have all the rights of an adult, or a senior citizen?
The point of this thread to me is not about vegetarianism but morality and when does morality come into play with eating animals if at all?
The argument is very simple:
1. Animals can suffer.
2. It is wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering.
3. Meat production causes unnecessary suffering, and the premature end of an animal's life.
4. Therefore, meat eating is wrong.
Indeed, the cow has more value than an unborn child? Why is that and is that moral?
Why is that? Because the cow may have a greater capacity for suffering than the foetus. It is conscious of its surroundings. It has no wish to die; on the contrary, it will make efforts to protect itself as best it can if somebody tries to kill it.
I am pointing out the inconsistancy in the morality of championing the animal rights of animals that we eat, but ignoring the rights of another animal that we do not eat but discard as an inconvenient byproduct of the act of sexual copulation that will produce offspring.
That's ok. I agree we should consider BOTH sets of rights. Agreed?
You do not have to correct me with your superior intellect. I am well aware of farming developing quite recently. The point in my statement if you will look a bit closer is that farming did develop in our evolution and the point is relevant to the issue of morality of eating animals being discussed since we as humans tend to modify our morality for any reason to suit our own wants and wishes.
Morality is meaningless if it can be modified at the whim of the individual. It becomes indistinguishable from pure selfishness.