Is creating false guilt for profit by religions a good moral tenet?

Light Travelling said:
No it's not. That is exactly what I wrote in the first post. Try re- reading it
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"whilst I disagree with colonialism, murder of Indians, and Christianity. Your statement above is logically incorrect. you cannot state that because the people who colonised America and killed the natives were Christians, that therefore Christians are murderers"

The ones who murdered the Native Americans were. Of course not all of the Christians were murderers and I think you know what I meant.

In truth Indians were not killed for being non Christian but being non white. Even those that converted to Christianity were persecuted, killed and not given land back.
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Native Americans were killed to make money. Scalping was invented by the Christians to pay for each dead Native American who's scalp was turned in. Funny how the Native Americans are ALWAYS depicted as the ones who were scalping isn't it?
 
cosmictraveler said:
And NO Christians were trying to prevent the genocide either that I've ever heard about.
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No one tried to stop it at all. Christian or not.
In the same way that no Romans tried to stop the spread of the roman empire and the killing it conducted.
No turks tried to stop the spread of the ottoman empire.
None of gengis khans hoards wanted to stop him

That is more to do with empire and colonialism than religion
 
jabbaska said:
Yes, Jihadists would love to see the world immersed in the darkness that is ignorance, but so do all the other religions as far as I'm concerned, but in a different way so to speak. The catholic church is losing power everyday for instance, at least here in Portugal, a country recognized before for being extremely religious (read about the miracle of the sun in Fatima here). Information sharing is defeating old religious dogmas and waking people up. It is hard for someone with an average intelligence to keep believing in demons, angels and stuff like that when they read everyday about how ridiculous it is in a real world, in our world. The only way jihadists can do something besides what they already do is to recruit, and although there are some teens (even from Portugal), who decided to adopt their religion and subsequent malice, it is not enough to start a real change in the world in my opinion.

I'm more worried about the subtle brainwash the "less" fundamentalist religions do than what the jihadists are planning. Mind you, they are stupidly dangerous and they will end up killing lots of innocent people so I hope you understand where I'm getting to. It's not that I'm neglecting the danger, but when I think of a better and brighter future for humanity, I need to think on a larger scale.

I wrote something that may or may not be appropriate to complement this threads title. I wrote it because I was fed up of people thanking god instead of thanking whoever did them good...

http://www.crowsmos.pt/dont-thank-god/

Edit: When I shared this post in Portuguese people cursed at me. Maybe I was doing the devil's work here :=)
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I will check your two links.

You are correct that the big picture is what we need to try to see. Jihadists will have their day in the next few years but as education become the norm in those backwards countries and religions, they will fade out.

As to some seeing you and I as evil, that idiocy will fade along with the jihadists as more in the so called civilized world also move away from their immoral creeds.

All religions have a lot of homophobia and misogyny but all are slowly reaching a more civilized and just outlook. If only, as Jesus indicated, we had someone to shorten the days and move civility closer to all who fail at it.

They say that the tipping point will be 2050 but I wish it were sooner.

Regards
DL
 
cosmictraveler said:
Jihadists are only the puppets of those who are arms dealers. They kill for only getting paid and free weapons to upset the moderates who don't do much to stop them. They just enjoy provoking everyone so that more conflicts hence more weapons sold.
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Demographics and money. I agree.

That is why I advocate that we go after the money men and bring a few of those white collars to justice just to show we can. We know who they are and can follow the money.

Regards
DL
 
Light Travelling said:
The wording of the question predicates the answer. Therefore no discussion is possible.


You may get more meaningful discussion with a more open question. And also specifying if you mean all religions, or just three in particular.
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I am a self-educated Frenchman and recognize that I am not the best communicator.

I just like to try to come up with decent O.P. that will ----------


----- against religions.

Regards
DL
 
wellwisher said:
I agree, which is why when liberals use white guilt to spend money on special interest groups, at the tax payer expense, this is not moral or condoned by God. The church might guilt me to contribute, but they do not have the power to force me. I can opt out or leave. But when a liberal government uses white guilt, they can use force by creating laws to steal money via taxes, under the guise of this being moral. Liberals have taken the guilt game to a new level.

If we took the guilt game out of the equation, and made it voluntary, like most churches are, then the sales pitch would need to be for compassion and mercy, with nobody being forced to volunteer. This is not the liberal way. They prefer old time fire and brimstone where the straight, white, Christian, males goes to hell if he does not repent.
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I am only half way into your camp on this because voluntary gifting is up and down while a taxing system is long range.

If you believe this link then you will see what the taxing system should do and does not. We have to bring the super rich to heel and that is quite hard to do as we all live in oligarchies and our owners make noise about redistribution but that is all they do.

At the same time, they are doing just enough to prevent revolt.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2

Regards
DL
 
Regarding cosmictraveler and light traveler discussion. I agree with the danger of generalization. One has to be extra careful pointing fingers because history has taught us that it is wrong and not useful, not because it is sinful or not but because it is not logical and hurts humanity in the long run. Crap, you see what happened to the jews in WWII for instance...racism, xenophoby and a statement like : "I hate ALL christians" or " I hate ALL muslims" - will just promote more ignorance. You see, a child is born in a house where people say "gipsies are ALL bad", or "blacks are bad" etc etc, the child will find no reason to try and understand why, so he will hate them as well. We need to stop generalization in all forms, everywhere...that would be wonderful. Of course generalizing is part of us, it is what our brain uses to understand and interpret the world without too much energy usage...pattern recognition etc etc...I know all that. But we can stop dogmas! We don't need to watch out for groups of blacks or jews wandering around the streets waiting for a chance to kill us! As an atheist and as a self-taught, amateur scientist, I'm worried about generalization in all forms.

I will check your two links.

You are correct that the big picture is what we need to try to see. Jihadists will have their day in the next few years but as education become the norm in those backwards countries and religions, they will fade out.

As to some seeing you and I as evil, that idiocy will fade along with the jihadists as more in the so called civilized world also move away from their immoral creeds.

All religions have a lot of homophobia and misogyny but all are slowly reaching a more civilized and just outlook. If only, as Jesus indicated, we had someone to shorten the days and move civility closer to all who fail at it.

They say that the tipping point will be 2050 but I wish it were sooner.
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I've never heard about a tipping point but hey, 2050 sounds good to me. In my head it would be way later than that. Still, as long as we'll get to a time where science and reason is part of everyone's life, even if I'm already dead, it's alright :).
 
Greatest I am said:
Demographics and money. I agree.

That is why I advocate that we go after the money men and bring a few of those white collars to justice just to show we can. We know who they are and can follow the money.

Regards
DL
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Russia and China won't let anyone go after their arms dealers for they want money no matter how the can get it even if it means murdering women and children as we have seen recently in Syria. America only want's to help protect those who are in the middle of the conflicts that Russia and China create to sell more weapons. So if you go after American arms dealers you won't put them in prison for they are giving aid to the freedom fighters of those countries who are at war.

The more conflicts the more weapons being sold so until people stop killing each other and use the government to make laws that can help solve problems we won't ever stop the ongoing killing that we see around the world. Russia could force the people they sell weapons to to work to solve problems instead of making more, the same with America.
 
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God would have to be passive with his creation. Of course all is a virtue so it and they go to Heaven so one would have to prove hate and sorrow non existent in order to prevent nature and life in the passive universe. Nature corrupts "all."
 
cosmictraveler said:
Russia and China won't let anyone go after their arms dealers for they want money no matter how the can get it even if it means murdering women and children as we have seen recently in Syria. America only want's to help protect those who are in the middle of the conflicts that Russia and China create to sell more weapons. So if you go after American arms dealers you won't put them in prison for they are giving aid to the freedom fighters of those countries who are at war.

The more conflicts the more weapons being sold so until people stop killing each other and use the government to make laws that can help solve problems we won't ever stop the ongoing killing that we see around the world. Russia could force the people they sell weapons to to work to solve problems instead of making more, the same with America.
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Yes. It is hard to sue for peace while making a living from war.

Regards
DL
 
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2013 arms exports in millions of US dollars
 
sculptor said:
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United States10194
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Russia5971
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23px-Flag_of_France.svg.png
France1978
4
23px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
United Kingdom1074
5
23px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png
Germany1200
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23px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png
Spain1110
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23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png
China1083
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21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png
Israel824
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Italy786
10
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Ukraine664
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Netherlands561
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23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png
Sweden394
13
16px-Flag_of_Switzerland.svg.png
Switzerland350
14
23px-Flag_of_Turkey.svg.png
Turkey274
15
23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png
Canada234

2013 arms exports in millions of US dollars
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Interesting.

I would expect the U.S. to lead the list as they sell to every country they protect and they protect the most.

I do not see Iran and Saudi in your list yet they are said to arm various groups in the Middle East.

Your list may not be that accurate.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Interesting.

I would expect the U.S. to lead the list as they sell to every country they protect and they protect the most.

I do not see Iran and Saudi in your list yet they are said to arm various groups in the Middle East.

Your list may not be that accurate.

Regards
DL
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wikipedia's list
 
Greatest I am said:
When one considers the surveys that show that the belief in hell does damage to many in their youth, with an uncaring church there continuing to lie, it is terrible indeed.

All for the cash. As you indicate. If there was a God, he would crush every church and mosque to dust. I would help. No charge.

Regards
DL
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.
Telling children they will, should or deserve to suffer horribly for eternity is child abuse & should be against the law.

IF there were a god, why assume it would do anything good???

.
 
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