Medicine Woman said:
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M*W Paul created the dying demigod savior, actually he stole it from the earlier Mithraism, so the whole idea of Jesus dying on a cross to save mankind from original sin is bullcrap. QUOTE]
The bullcrap is your information. I'm no christian, so don't take me as standing up for it, but Mithraism had nothing to do whatsoever with the resurrection. Mithraism was a MYSTERY cult, and as such, very little is known about it. The benefits of having such a small amount of information available on the topic is not only knowing not what it all says, but also what it DOESN'T say. I'm going to assume, for the sake of this argument, that your comment is in reference to the belief held by the misinformed that Mithras died for humanity, on a cross, rose on the third day and ascended into heaven(Or some wild variation thereof, I've seen several variants.)
Mithra. Never. Died. Period.
Mithra was not born of a virgin. (The only references to his birth show him rising from a stone.) Shephards were not present at his birth. He did NOT halve twelve followers. Just about everything else you've probably read on the subject will most likely prove false.
You should appreciate knowing that the earliest known artifact from Mithraism is dated 90 CE. How is this mystery cult going to influence the foundation of a religion that was founded before itself?
Seriously, if this is they type of information you take in to form your opinions, one has to call into question the entirety of your argument; the majority of your facts being wrong.
This is a matter of historical fact. By historical fact I mean logical conclusions drawn from and supported by existing evidence. I DEFY you to come up with any shred of historical evidence providing otheriwse.
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M*W: "A brief resume of the main points made by Robertson and other leading commentators underlines the fact that many of the most sacred parts of the Jesus story are identical to those from other ancient religions."
"Robertson says: 'Like Christ, and like Adonis and Attis, Osiris and Dionysus also suffer and rise again. To become one with them is the mystical passion of their worshippers. They are all alike in that their mysteries give immortality. From Mithraism Christ takes the symbolic keys of heaven and assumes the function of the virgin-born Saoshayant, the destroyer of the Evil One. . ."."
"In fundamentals, therefore, Christism is but paganism reshaped.:
"The Christian myth grew by absorbing details from pagan cults. . . Like the image of the child-god in the cult of Dionysus, he was pictured in swaddling clothes in a basket manger. He was born in a stable like Horus -- the stable-temple of the Virgin goddess Isis, queen of heaven. Again like Dionysus, he turned water into wine; like Aesculapius, he raised men from the dead and gave sight to the blind; and like Attis and Adonis, he is mourned and rejoiced over by women. His resurrection took place, like that of Mithra, from a rock-tomb. . .".
"There is not a conception associated with Christ that is not common to some or all of the Savior cults of antiquity."
[Robertson, J.M., Pagan Christs, Barnes & Noble, NY, NY, 1993 (one-volume abridgement of 1903 work).]
"In the mysteries of Mithra, the initiates partook of a ceremony that was so reminiscent of the Christian 'Lord's Supper' that it proved an embarrassment to the Christian apologist Justin Martyr. According to Justin, the Mithraic 'mystai' ate bread and drank water (perhaps a mixed cup of water and wine) at an initiatory mean -- in diabolical imitation, he hastily adds, of the Christian Eucharist."
[Meyer, Marvin W. (ed.), The Ancient Mysteries: A Sourcebook, HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1987.]
"Commonly regarded as one of Christianity's chief rivals during the Roman Empire, Mithraism, together with the cult of SOL INVICTUS, furnished Christianity with certain symbols and practices that remain alive today."
"Mithras (or Mithra) was a Persian god, usually depicted straddling a bull and killing it with a sword. From the dying bull issued the seed of life for the world, and hence the god's act became the symbol of REGENERATION. Before his religion spread into the Roman world in the first century BC, Mithras had been worshipped throughout the Persian Empire, where he represented a savior-king with solar symbolism similar to Apollo's. A Persian prophecy placed him as reigning last in a series of 7,000-year periods (each symbolized by one of the seven visible planets), followed by an apocalypse and renewal of the world. Not surprisingly, this prophecy became blended with early Christians' views of the Second Coming of Christ."
"Because of its baptismal ritual and the initiates' communal meal, which resembled the Christian Eucharist, some early Christians perceived Mithraism as a threat. Justin said that the Mithraic ceremonial meal of bread and water was inspired by demons, and TERTULLIAN also commented on it. Nevertheless, it is not coincidental that Christ's birth is celebrated on December 25, first celebrated as the birthday of Mithras."
"Mithraic religion faded after the time of CONSTANTINE the Great, although it enjoyed a brief revival during the time of the Pagan emperor JULIAN THE APOSTATE before his death in 363. After he abandoned Christianity, Julian underwent a Mithraic initiation."
[Encyclopedia of Heresies and Heretics, by Chas S. Clifton, Barnes & Noble, NY, NY, 1992, pp 96-97]
"The idea of celebrating the Nativity on December 25 was first suggested early in the fourth century, a clever move on the part of Church fathers, who wished to eclipse the December 25 festivities of a rival pagan religion, Mithraism, that threatened teh existence of Christianity."
"It is important to note that for two centuries after Christ's birth, no one knew, and few peoople cared, exactly when he was born. Birthdays were uninportant; death days counted. Besides, Christ was divine and his natural birth was deliberately played down. In fact, the Church even announced at one point that it was sinful to contemplate observing Christ's birthday "as though He were a King Pharoah."
"On December 25, pagan Romans, still in the majority, celebrated Natalis Solis Invicti, "Birthday of the Invincible Sun God," Mithras. The Mithras cult originated in Persia and rooted itself in the Roman world in the first century BCE. By the year 274 CE, Mithraism was so popular with the masses that Emperor Aurelian proclaimed it as the official state religion. In the early 300s, the cult seriously threatened Christianity, and for a time, it was unclear which faith would emerge victorious."
"Church fathers debated their options."
"It was well known that Roman patricians and plebians alike enjoyed festivals of a protracted nature. The Church, then, needed a December celebration."
"Thus, to offer converts an occasion in which to be pridefully celebratory, the Church officially recognized Christ's birth. And to offer head-on competition to the sun worshippers' popular feast, the Church located the Nativity on December 25. The mode observance would be characteristically prayerful: a Mass; in fact, Christ's Mass. As one theologian wrote in the 320s: 'We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but becasue of him who made it.' Although centuries later, social scientists would write of the psychological power of group celebrations -- the unification of ranks, the solidification of collective identity, the reinforcement of common objectives -- the principle had long been intuitively obvious."
"The celebration of Christmas took permanent hold in the Western world in 337, when the Roman emperor Constantine was baptized, uniting for the first time the Crown and the Church. Christianity had become the official state religion in 313. And in 354, Bishop Liberius of Rome reiterated the importance of celebrating not only Christ's death but also his birth."
"Saint Francis of Assisi popularized the Christmas 'crib' or 'creche' in his celebration of the Nativity in Greccio, Italy, in 1223. Francis used wooden figures of Mary, Joseph, the infanat, sheep and shepherds, starting a tradition still popular to this day."
"The period of time leading up to Christmas -- from the SUnday nearest November 30 until Christmas Eve -- is known as 'Advent,' Latin 'adventis,' [which means] 'coming,' and was first celebrated in the late fourth century. At one time, Advent was observed by strict fastingm prayer, and meditation, but now it must compete with Christmas parties and shopping."
[Sacred Origins of Profound Things: The Stories Behind the RItes and Rituals of the World's Religions, by Charles Panati, Penguin Books USA, Inc, NY, NY, 1996]
