Is Buddhism a Failure?

Arsalan,

Lets not get into another circle jerk.

Followed by Michaels turn to jerk in another jerk cycle:

Simply put, you think it's fine when Muslims attacked and murdered their way through the Spanish

Nope. I dont think murdering innocent people is right. I have stated that time and again. You however, never seem to see it. I wonder why? Unfortunately for you though, the Muslims and or Arabs didnt just get up 1 day and say "Lets go kill us some Spaniards!". The military campaigns fought by the Muslims were in direct response to attacks and agrression against them by their neighbours, and, because the people that attacked them never asked for a ceasefire or peace treaty, just kept retreating, they were followed and fought against.

- finally set themselves up as the rulers of Spain; a country that had high-culture, literature, math and beautiful marble sculptures and cities on the ocean 1000s of year before illiterate Arabs who were at the high point of milking camels invaded during their Islamic crusades.

Except ofcourse, the persecution first under the Romans, then the invasions and massacres by the Germanic Suevi, Vandals and Alans. The Byazntine conquest not to be forgotten. Funny how Spain was merely a granary until the Muslims brought culture, intellect and philosophy and raised Spain and Cordoba to an incredible high standard. But ofcourse, how could these infidels be granted all this favour by Jesus? Kill the infidels! And thats when the Muslims were kicked out. And what followed? Well, we all know what happened once the Muslims were kicked out. You ofcourse, will continue to deny that and only remember the Arabs.

You think it's fine when Muslims attacked and attacked and attacked Constantinople and finally raped, murdered and looted their way through a Greco-Roman founded city.

Just like you think its fine that the Byzantine Empire continously attacked the Muslims and Arabs, provoking the response.

Oh, wait, I forgot, they didn't harm a flee in Spain or anywhere they just handed out candy, lollies and yum yum just like America in Iraq.

Ofcourse, except Iraq never attacked the US, whereas the Spanish and European Christians did. One only has to look at the barbarity and massacres during the pre-Islamic period and the post-Islamic period to see the difference betwen Islamic rule and non-Islamic rule in Spain.

I think murdering people and stealing their stuff is wrong.
We'll agree to disagree.

Ofcourse, but then you dont acknowledge anything positive the Arabs or Muslims have done. You focus on military campaigns by the Arabs and Muslims, whose armies consisted of Jews, Christians, Romans and various non-Muslims btw, without ever acknowledging that they were provoked and that the civilization the Muslims brought thrust Europe and Spain onto a whole different level, unmatched anywhere in Europe.

Egypt was colonized by Arabs and you don't appear have any sympathy with them. Egyptians were murdered. Egyptian monasteries were looted. Egyptian women were raped. Children lost parents. Some people lost everything. The Greek founded and built and maintained city of Alexandria was overrun.

And ofcourse no mention whatsoever of the dozens of times Egypt was invaded, pillaged and raped by almost everyone around it. No mention that Egyptian religion and culture was destroyed by the introduction of Christianity and its subsequent rise, after ofcourse being persecuted to the hilt by the Egyptians. No mention that Egypt, being part of the Byzantine Empire, was guilty of attacking their neighbours, the Muslims and Arabs, and provoked the response that led to the Byazntines losing total control over Egypt. No mention of the Muslims killed and or raped. But then again, dont expect that from Michael...

This is all OK for you because it was Muslims doing the colonizing.

Just like its Ok for you if Muslims get ethnically cleansed in Medina, or wiped out by the Persians, or get ravaged, raped, pillaged and killed by the Byzantine empire.

Or you'll make up some story about how Arab Muslims didn't do anything wrong.

Self defense against a neighbouring country that keeps attacking you is universally accepted.

Sure, Egyptians had lived there for 7000 years, invented the written language, were civilized for millennial, but ... meh, at this point in time what they really really really wanted was to be overrun by nomadic horsemen with no language and no civilization. :bugeye:

Except ofcourse their language, religion and culture was all but destroyed by the introduction of Christianity. But lets not talk about that, right? :rolleyes:

Oh and the reason why is because these smelly nomades rapeing their women were bringing a magical book from a magical god (even though the Qur'an was invented yet).

Except that the military campaigns were not for the spread of Islam, so had nothing to do with bringing a book. Besides, smelly nomads? :bugeye: You mean the nomads that washed themselves 5 times a day? Wow. When have I last heard someone call a whole group of people smelly...

And its common for Arabs think of Arabs as being a "race".
"American" is a national identify like being "Egyptian".
While I agree Arab is a culture, that's not how it's seen by most Arabs.

The ignorance in your post is astounding. It goes to show you know nothing about what the Arabs think about themselves. Oh wait, I forgot, you have a "friend" in Persi... I mean, Iran. Stop drinking the koolaid hes offering you.


Egypt was colonized following the Muslim crusades

No Muslim crusades ever took place.

the people were eventually overrun as their Arab Muslim conquerors who then proceeded to out breed them

Proof? Thought so. Egyptians took over Arab culture, because it was better than the Christian culture that was being imposed on them.


- just as happened to the Native Americans by the Europeans. Unlike the Native Americans, who are now often looked up to as caretakers of the land with a peaceful nature religion, it's not uncommon for "Coptics" to be viewed derogatorily.

Leading violent revolts against a country will make you unloved. Just ask ETA or other groups how well they are faring.

I think most people understand now that it is/was wrong for Europeans to have colonized other people. Not you, you think the Muslim crusades were the pinnacle of Islamic Civilization.

Except the Muslims didnt colonize. Whereas the European nations went and killed and massacred people on the other side of the world who had never attacked them, the Muslims had to fight against their neighbours who were bent on ethnic cleansing.

What about European Crusades? Is that something to be proud of? What about European colonization? Is that something to be proud of?

Not comparable to the Muslim campaigns.

And then to top it off you have the gull to think it's JUST to tax the people who lived there for the privilege of maintaining their god damn culture! A tax that is imposed to maintain an army of colonizers?!?!
That's Justice?!?
That's Godly?!?

Those people were already being taxed. Every nation, almost every, taxes its people. Since Islam asks its followers to pay Zakat as tax, it would have been unethical to ask the Egyptians, or anyone else, to follow Islam and pay the Zakat. If that had been done, the argument presented by you would be how the Muslims slowly and subtly tried to convert the Egyptians without telling them. So, instead of asking the Egyptians to pay a Muslim tax, they were asked to pay a tax, as they always did, instead this tax exempted them from military service. Besides that, there was no difference. But ofcourse, the Copts started staging their own TEA parties and wanted to be ruled over by teh Byzantines again, envying the acceptance Islam had gained.

As for Iran, I know a hell of a lot of Persians and they certainly see things very differently.

So if I know a couple of conservatives in the US, should I believe them about whats going on right now?
 
Buddhism is failed as organization. Buddha did not say "build temples, make people come and worship", nor did Jesus Christ say thus, nor even Mohammed, all said that faith and salvation or true enlightenment was inside.
Mecca, Jerusalem are places. God is not "at a place you travel to", but is always and everywhere. The messiah came to rescue Judaism. Before his time they had not succeeded in becoming enlightened.
True salvation is not avoiding the fire of Hell, and being "taken to" Heaven. Both these are here, always. We are supposed to want to be in Heaven, not concerning ourselves with where is Hell.
Judaism in formalizing many rules and followings, does not nor can it lead to this. Following rules is not arriving at destination but thinking about rules.
Rules are for when one is not sure, where is this way, but rules are not the way, only a guide. Rules should not be a religion, religion only exists when people want rules to follow. People want to think "I am lost", but this is never true. Only mind can be lost in the world.
 
Buddhism is perfect. How do they prove it, by blaming Muslims, and Arabs in particular, for all ills of mankind. A simplistic mindset borne from racism and propaganda.

A hatred of Arabs in particular, and Muslims in general, according to the Hadith, reveals the identity of Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog). The signs of these human beings is thus: a hatred of religion (Islam and monotheism in particular), claim of being religious but actually being godless, sexual perversion and deviation, moral decadence, materialism and selfishness, an unstoppable thirst for human resources, tremendous violence against peaceful or primitive people (America, Australia, Africa, Central Asia, etc.), and an obsession with the Holy Land (esp. in bringing the Jews there). They will naturally pave the way for the coming of the Anti Christ (al-Masih ad-Dajjal, false Messiah) who shall be one-eyed. The people of Gog and Magog are none other than the Anglo-Saxons, Khazars (Ashkenazi 'converted' Jews), and Russians. They represent the godless way of life. 999 out of every 1,000 of the human race destined for the Hellfire, the people of Gog and Magog are those who embrace openly their way of life, marked by an aversion to monotheism, Islam, and morality.
 
a hatred of religion (Islam and monotheism in particular), claim of being religious but actually being godless, sexual perversion and deviation, moral decadence, materialism and selfishness, an unstoppable thirst for human resources, tremendous violence against peaceful or primitive people (America, Australia, Africa, Central Asia, etc.), and an obsession with the Holy Land (esp. in bringing the Jews there).
This obsession you mention is desire to be "enlightened" and in a better position, with more access than others, who are not religious, and not following rules.

Is what Romans, Persians, British, Spanish all want to do in the past. Not successful because not real religion, is actually selfish belief that self is more important, and more deserving. True religion does not claim to be the best, or only religion. This is since a true religion would also accept, "there is no true religion".

They represent the godless way of life. 999 out of every 1,000 of the human race destined for the Hellfire, the people of Gog and Magog are those who embrace openly their way of life, marked by an aversion to monotheism..
Godless people are not people, since everyone understands God. Embracing a way that denies the existence of any God but "the true God" is not real belief, since God is one, but also every one. This is true because all people are truly knowing of God, but many deny this because they want to satisfy their mind and desire for wealth and plenty, without the recognition that this means others have little or nothing.

Such people are the poor in spirit, mean-minded and selfish, unwilling to look inside at what God is telling them, constantly. This is morality, justice, peace, and cooperation, which is always internal. Externally we produce imperfect form of this true, inner form, because we are not, and cannot be perfect.

Rome was an idea, this idea was usurped by men who wanted power. Such men wished to hold, like a coin in the palm, all of Empire and all of world to toss in the air, like coin.
 
IF Buddhists can do that, then I'd say on another level they are not a failure - many I know have said exactly as much. EXACTLY as much. Again, that's the difference and one of the reasons I think, as a superstition it most likely isn't a bad one.

Practiced correctly the superstitious parts are self correcting...


In Pali, Buddha's reply [to the Kalamas] is recorded thus:

Ma anussavena.
Do not believe something just because it has been passed along and retold for many generations. [Simpler: Do not be led by what you are told.]

Ma paramparaya.
Do not believe something merely because it has become a traditional practice. [Do not be led by whatever has been handed down from past generations.]

Ma itikiraya.
Do not believe something simply because it is well-known everywhere. [Do not be led by hearsay or common opinion.]

Ma Pitakasampadanena.
Do not believe something just because it is cited in a text. [Do not be led by what the scriptures say]

Ma takkahetu.
Do not believe something solely on the grounds of logical reasoning. [Do not be led by mere logic.]

Ma nayahetu.
Do not believe something merely because it accords with your philosophy. [Do not be led by mere deduction or inference.]

Ma akaraparivitakkena.
Do not believe something because it appeals to "common sense". [Do not be led by considering only outward appearance.]

Ma ditthinijjhanakkhantiya.
Do not believe something just because you like the idea. [Do not be led by preconceived notions (and the theory reflected as an approval)]

Ma bhabbarupataya.
Do not believe something because the speaker seems trustworthy. [Do not be led by what seems acceptable; do not be led by what some seeming believable one says.]

Ma samano no garu ti.
Do not believe something thinking, "This is what our teacher says". [Do not be led by what your teacher tells you is so.]

Kalamas, when you yourselves directly know, "This is [these things are] unwholesome, this is blameworthy, this is condemned or censured by the wise, these things when accepted and practised lead to poverty and harm and suffering," then you should give them up.
Kalamas, when you yourselves directly know, "These things are wholesome, blameless, praised by the wise; when adopted and carried out they lead to well-being, prosperity and happiness," then you should accept and practise them."

http://oaks.nvg.org/kalama.html#wobud

Oops, on topic. I'll try to do better.
 
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Buddhism is perfect. How do they prove it, by blaming Muslims, and Arabs in particular, for all ills of mankind. A simplistic mindset borne from racism and propaganda.

A hatred of Arabs in particular, and Muslims in general, according to the Hadith, reveals the identity of Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog). The signs of these human beings is thus: a hatred of religion (Islam and monotheism in particular), claim of being religious but actually being godless, sexual perversion and deviation, moral decadence, materialism and selfishness, an unstoppable thirst for human resources, tremendous violence against peaceful or primitive people (America, Australia, Africa, Central Asia, etc.), and an obsession with the Holy Land (esp. in bringing the Jews there). They will naturally pave the way for the coming of the Anti Christ (al-Masih ad-Dajjal, false Messiah) who shall be one-eyed. The people of Gog and Magog are none other than the Anglo-Saxons, Khazars (Ashkenazi 'converted' Jews), and Russians. They represent the godless way of life. 999 out of every 1,000 of the human race destined for the Hellfire, the people of Gog and Magog are those who embrace openly their way of life, marked by an aversion to monotheism, Islam, and morality.

Liar.
 
Its not our fault you persecute sufis.

I dont persecute anyone. I dont persecute the Muslims and Christians in India. I dont persecute the Muslims and Christians in China. I dont persecute anyone.

What a load of Bull.

Its the truth.


Yes, yes, Michael tried to use that in his argument ages ago. What people like you and Michael would have us believe is that the military campaigns were always aggressive in nature and were done to spread Islam. Thats not true.
 
Do you still have the link for that thread? Id like to see how far we got before I had a pile of Uni work

Do a quick search on my threads. You'll find it soon enough. Then, you can lie about lying. What fun.
 
Spamming useless comments serves no other purpose but to cripple debate. My post still stands, and as yet, no one has offered a decent rebuttal of my post.

As for Sufism, the Western definition is severely limited, in this definition all Muslims, except Wahhabis, can be classified as Sufis. Sufism isn't a sect, it is a philosophy, which is intertwined with the religion of Islam. In Muslim countries Sufi just means great teacher, any Imam can be called Sufi.
 
Spamming useless comments serves no other purpose but to cripple debate. My post still stands, and as yet, no one has offered a decent rebuttal of my post.

Most likely then, your post served no purpose but to cripple debate..
 
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