I'm sorry...but I'm still chuckling about the fact that you actually deem the similarity between urine and milk, i.e. they're both bodily fluids and what not, as relevant to this issue.
I'm sorry...but I'm still chuckling about the fact that you actually deem the similarity between urine and milk, i.e. they're both bodily fluids and what not, as relevant to this issue.
I was not talking about urine and milk, again strawman.
tell me now, does urinating and breastfeeding involve the usage of organs that many in the public find offensive to observe? That is my argument, that is what you need to make a counter argument to if you so want to counter, talking about eating shit is no relevant, is a fallacy, ad failure on your part to produce a proper counter argument.
Lol, what if people are eating bull penis? What about sushi off a naked woman? What if they are actually eating human flesh? You are the one making absurd statements about what is obscene. Don't you think there are a lot of vegetarians who consider eating meat obscene? Maybe you should look up what the word obscene actually means before you try using it in a sentence again.If your talking to me, the response is: no relevance. I can't make your statement about eating make any relevance to the reasoning breastfeeding and urinating are offensive because they involve to display of "offensive" organs in use, etc, etc, so it has no relevance as an argument against mine.
Oh, lemme reiterate that: I'm sorry...but I'm still chuckling about the fact that you actually deem the similarity between both bodily functions, i.e. they're both about excreting bodily fluids and what not, as relevant to this issue.
If so, I find it quite relevant to distinguish the difference between the usage of each bodily fluid, or no? One is waste and the other isn't. One is a health hazard and one is actually improving a little human's immunity.
I don't know many in the "public" who'd consider seeing breasts as offensive. I've actually asked a few about this issue, and most admitted that they don't care especially when knowing that most women are quite discreet about it and they are actually capable to see the differences in innocence between showing your boob because of trying to evoke lust in people and feeding your baby and when I subjected them to the challenge that people have been posing on here, i.e. peeing,shitting = breastfeeding, they were quite surprised as it never came to their mind that there are people who actually see a similarity between said actions and even less did they agree with you that you can put a penis, vagina on the same level as breasts.
The reasoning for why they find it offensive has nothing to do with one being waste and the other being food. Once again you managed to go from a point of some relevance (excreting of fluids, though not specifying the vulgar nature of the orifice) to a issue of no relevance, the nature of the fluid. If the fluid type was the issue for their offense then of course they would not find breastfeeding offensive.
I don't care what your friends think, many people in the public find it offensive, many places still have laws against breastfeeding in public, your going to deny this too, why don't you convince me the sky is red while your at it?
Electric Fetus said:
I don't care about the differences, I care about the similarities, I found several of which are relevant to this issue, so far few have against those points and none against all of them but continue to show off the differences like how urine is not consider edible, My point find that irrelevant ....
Many places have laws against it? Okay, please, give me some proof. Also while you're at it, prove me that many people in the public find it offensive, vulgar and obscene.
On a side note: I give up. I'll leave this to someone else who's more willing to waste their time on your stupefying arguments. Because obviously peeing and shitting in public places is VERY relevant when it comes to the subject "why people find breastfeeding obscene". And sure as Hell the nipples and boobs are just as vulgar as the penis, anus and the vagina. And because the nature of the fluid is completely irrelevant because nobody f*cking cares that one smells, is a health hazard, while the other is actually useful.
All I can say, those who find breastfeeding offensive and obscene have issues. Serious issues.
That your point finds it irrelevant suggests that you're not actually looking to discuss the issue, but rather that you're trying to tailor the discussion so you can pat yourself on the back for "winning" an argument.
Obscenity is not purely a visual concern. And no, I don't just mean that there are sounds that some people find obscene, or even smells. But the sense of obscenity arises from one's personal context. There are plenty of people who would have no problem with people walking around naked who would find something obscene, or at least disgusting, about those same naked people randomly voiding their waste on the street. It is because of these factors that your argument finds irrelevant that people attach negative connotations to public urination.
Which is also why the poll result is so lopsided. I have yet to encounter, in my life, an argument explaining the obscenity of breastfeeding that does not come back to internal sexual conflicts and the eye of the beholder. Those who find breastfeeding obscene somehow object to the notion of even the slightest exposure of the breast in public. In other words, they reject the natural utility in favor of the psychosexual construction in order to empower their objection. It suggests, in the case of the philistines against breastfeeding, that the perversion is in their own minds.
On a personal note, I don't recall you being so extreme and obstinate about things in your history at Sciforums. So what is the underlying issue here? It really does seem that you're peeved that nobody's taking the bait on this one, and I just don't get why that irks you so.
Or the present norm were women are forced to breast feed in some place private, though not necessarily a toilet.
I need to ask. Why do you have this compulsion to pee in a public area? Why must your urinal be in a public area?no just the immediate vicinity of the urinal, but if you really want to get technical everywhere is already a toilet considering how other organism has been shiting all over the place.
The breast is not exposed. The baby's head tends to cover or shield the breast from view, not to mention that the greater majority of women have special shirts and drapes, not to mention slings that ensures no one is able to see or even know half the time, that the child is being breastfed.I never said that, you continue to refuse to acknowledge general equivalents or the fundamental reason why some object to public breastfeeding: they don't want to see exposed breast just like they object to external urinals because they don't want to see exposed penises, and some people find extra offense to seeing fluids spurt from these organs, if you don't want to acknowledge that as the reasoning behind baning breastfeeding and want to throw strawman and red herrings at me well I can't stop you.
Two words. Mammary Glands. Look it up.The primary function of feeding babies is the nipple, not the breast. You obviously have not been listening to my women have breast argument, why other apes don't have breast, etc, read a link perhaps?
The only thing in common is that it is a fluid that comes from the human body, one solely from the female's body. Aside from that, they are not deemed to be "common" at all. Tell me, do you consider your snot to have something in common with your tears? How about when you pick your nose, is that the same as you shit? Would you eat both?Just one thing in common negates your whole argument, I have named several which you refuse to acknowledged.
Refer to above.I states specific things they have in common, "not many" not vague but very specific things, I've been to Europe and yes they don't have as much of a stigma against peeing and shitting in public nor such a stigma against the display of breasts, my reasoning explains why.
No. That was my admission that you are too weird to be believed.I'll accept this as your admission of defeat.
ElectricFetus said:
As I have stated before I have nothing against public breastfeeding, I just want people to state why they are for and against it, and I presented a logic problem for them to solve which few try to rather instead attacked me, misunderstood my position and generally got angry.
7 states do not have laws protecting breast feeding and only 28 states have breastfeeding except from public indecency laws.
http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/BreastfeedingLaws/tabid/14389/Default.aspx
A group of researchers from the University of Adelaide in Australia printed the finding of their survey in the Journal of Human Lactation in June, 1999.
The researchers surveyed nearly 100 restaurant and shopping center managers, asking them about breastfeeding in their facilities. Only one third of the restaurant managers and less than half (48 percent) of the shopping center managers said that mothers can breastfeed anywhere in their facilities regardless of what other customers might say.
http://www.breastfeeding.com/advocacy/advocacy_bfinpublic.html
The survey-of more than 3400 people in Adelaide's northern suburbs-shows that 83% of the community believes bottle feeding in public places is a more acceptable practice than breastfeeding.
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news49.html
simple google search on "public breastfeeding survey" can answer your question.
Again all issues of irrelevance to why they find it offensive, as long as they see a boob or hear the sound of baby sucking they are offended. I'm glad you accepted my argument.
Well certainly they have issue, I would not say serious, but as I have stated before I have nothing against breastfeeding in public so if your anger is directed your doing so unfairly.
So, the first link says that 43 States have laws with language specifically allowing women to breastfeed in any public or private location. What does that say? And how many States does the US have again? For the record, in spite of this link speaking in favour of me I don't consider it as the real deal since the USA certainly doesn't represent the whole world's opinion.
Coming to the other two links, they refer to statistics and surveys that are 10 years old or so. I'm sorry, but times change and these reports certainly don't reflect the current state of the general public's opinion on this matter. Then there's the ridiculous numbers of people they've used for their surveys. 3400 people from Adelaide from 10 years ago have the say in what should be allowed in public or not?
In fact, all three links, in spite of two being outdated and not very reliable imply that breastfeeding in public places is being supported even by politicians.
So it turns out that most complaints about breastfeeding are unjustified and have no legal grounds and could be classified as harassment. Thank you very much for this info. I'll treasure it. And I'll always remember how in the end you've shot your own goal.
PS: I was actually never angry. I just thought that your comparison was absurd.