Is Aging A Curable Disease?

meucat, you didn't see this topic because it was last discussed over 2 years ago, and Mike18ca has brought it up from it's slumber.

I must ask you now Mike, why? Several of the people invloved in this discussion don't post here regularly anymore, if at all.
 
just searching for aging topics in the bio/genetic forum and this one had some good info as did many others,

didn't look to see how old it was. my bad.
 
Mike18ca said:
hey GOD it's nice that you cured immortality but you left us with way to short a lifespan.

Give us atleast 250-500 years,
If I gave you 250-500 years, then you would want 1000-2000 years. There are already too many people around. Stop being so damn fruitful already! The search for immortality is just a way of putting off what you fear.

Now, where did I put that killer asteroi... whups, did I say that out loud?
 
As someone involved in the " medical anti-ageing industry", perhaps I can give you all some tips.

First... brain ageing...

There has been some amazing research recently into the effects of, would you believe, berries on the processes of brain ageing.

The clear winner is the humble blueberry. Researchers supplemented the diets of rats with blueberries and found some startling effects. Memory increased, curiosity increased, agility increased, the ability to cope with a changing environment improved and... and here was the real surprise, the rats actually grew new brain cells... lots of them. The really interesting part was that the rats on blueberries in the last third of their lives (the time equivalent to humans over 60) outperformed the control rats (that is, those not on bluberries) in the first third of their lives, when those rats should have been at their mental and physical peak.

When they extended the reseach to humans who had early stage alzheimers, they found a remarkable improvement on just half a cup of berries a day.

Second... ageing as a disease...

The anti-ageing profession looks at ageing as the cumulative symptoms of a number of related diseases. This is a paradigm shift that much of the medical fraternity is slow to embrace, but there has been a marked difference in mainstream medical attitudes over the last four or five years.

For instance, it's not too long ago that med students used to be taught that diet and nutrition had no role to play in the prevention of disease. Hard to believe huh?

The causes of ageing appear to fall into four main categories, hormones, oxidation, inflammation and genes.

As we age, our hormone production across all major hormone groups declines, and at up to 15% per decade. That means that if you're in your mid forties, your hormone levels are depleted by more than 30%. By your late fifties, you're down to around 50%, and the decline gets faster from there.

Hormones? Yes, and there's a long list... Human Growth Hormone, DHEA, Pregnenalone, Melatonin, Testosterone, Oestrogen, Progesterone and a whole raft of others.

By restoring these hormones to the levels of, say, your mid thirties, you will restore vitality, shed weight, increase muscle mass, reduce your risk of heart attack and stroke, and reduce the risk of diabetes.

This isn't urban myth, or science fiction. It's real, heavily researched medicine being practiced by a growing number of mainstream doctors all over the world... BUT... you need to do it in balance. Just rushing off to your local drug store isn't going to help that much.

Medically, it's the same logic as treating diabetes (which is caused by an impaired insulin regulation and production mechanism) by giving a patient insulin.

And oxidation? Do you mean we rust? Yes... sort of.

The very process that keeps us alive, that is the burning of oxygen to provide cellular energy, is the same proces that causes us to age. The so-called anti-oxidants really do perform a vital role in keeping you alive. There are lots of them... and one of the most powerful is melatonin, a hormone that, yes, declines with age just like all the rest. A part of the reason blueberries might protect brains may lie in their high value as anti-oxidant food.

If you supplement your diet with a broad range of anti-oxidant foods, you'll be preventing some of the damage that we associate with ageing.

Now if you think that just by eating right, you will get all the right nitrition, and hence all the anti-oxidants you need, you'd be very wrong indeed. Modern farming practices, and depletion of soils has meant a quantifiable decline in the nutritional value of key foods over the last 50 years. In fact, in a study published by the American College of Nutrition, researchers looked at measures of nutritional values for 43 key garden crops in 1999, and compared them with the same crop values published in 1950. In some cases, the nutritional content had dropped by 36%!

The moral of that is that if you're not taking balanced nutritional supplements, then start.

Then there's the new kid on the block, inflammation. The more we look, the more we're coming to understand that some of the symptoms we now associate with ageing may be cased by chronic low level inflammation.

For example, it is just possible that our hormone levels decline because the capilliaries that carry blood to the glands that secrete them may be inflamed, thereby reducing the flow of blood, which in turn depresses production.

The bottom line is this... there isn't a person reading this who should not be taking at least 2grams of high quality fish oil every day (that's usually two gel caps). Fish oil is a superb natural anti-inflammatory, and the list of diseases/conditions that fish oil helps would fill a telephone book. In fact, it would be easier to write a list of diseases fish oil didn't help.

Finally, there are genes. It appears that, for now, no matter how healthy the hormone modulation, anti-oxidants, fish oil and nutritional supplements keep us, we have a genetic use-by date. In humans, that looks to be around 110-115 years of age.

So... is ageing a treatable disease? Yes, and no. Yes, in that the primary goal of research right now is to stop that long, slow, debilitating decline in physical and mental function that we currently associate with "getting old". And, depending on how much money you've got, we can be relatively successful at that. We're all still going to die, but changes in thinking within the medical profession over the next 20 years will mean that for many of us, death will come while we're hang gliding, mountain climbing or scuba diving at age 97.

For more reading, I recommend the Life Entension Foundation website at www.lef.org, and the website of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (or A4M, which is the doctors' professional association that certifies anti-aging medical specialists) at www.worldhealth.net.
 
Last edited:
critiqueing your dream:

we are animals. we eat and use the Earth's resources just like all animals, plants and so on

are you gonna help make all animals live longer and longer, or just white middle class people? Obviously making animals live longer, we would quickly realize that such a situation would spoil a BALANCE wouldn't we???

you see, the way i am looking at this scientific desire to one-up on Nature--by defying aging and the slowing down of physiology, is that it is ignore-ant and utterly selfish

you have no thought for the other species, for other peoples of the planet, for the many generations to come who need a planet not beng gobbled up by people who wont let the fuk go and want to live for ever. the whole REASON for death is so that doesn't happen. Nature is Intelligent. silly reductive man's 'reasoning'....aint!

If your dream comes true and we have 70 as the new 40, and onwards, which means more people zappin about eating for energy, touristing, using up all the LIMITEd resources, well its gonna be even more fuked up that its been isn't it?

i spose your dream includes people having babies when they are in thier 60s? might as well if they will be 'scuba diving ' in their 90s hey

There is no thought whatsover for Nature's intelligence. the REASON FOR death. deeath gives life. it makes room for others. it recycles.--THe materilasitc-mechanistic scientiicif people FEAr death. They simply cannot see a reason for it. they are unconsciousy affected by thepatriarchal mythology they believe they have rejected which also fears death! this is why they seek to defy it,
i am all for good nutrition of course. but we have to give thought to the idea of an elite few living into their hundreds further leeching all the resources from the many others--As is happening right NOW, though at least they die sooner than your dream wishes
 
Hellspawn666 said:
The biggest obsticle is that we know virtually nothing about the brain, and since you can only learn more by cutting a living brain open, its hard to gain more information.

Actually, we know quite a lot about the brain these days.

Most of what we've learned has been from non-invasive techniques such as PET scans of working brains (shows glocuse use and thus maps the brain sites which are working during a given task. Pen and paper, language and object manipulation tests given by neuro-psychologists, OTs and Speech pathologists have also provided a great deal of information about how the brain works. Gone are the days of mapping the effects of horse kicks and bullet wounds on soldiers in the Russian army (work done by Luria, a pioneering neuropsychologist).
 
chestertb said:
As someone involved in the " medical anti-ageing industry", perhaps I can give you all some tips.

First... brain ageing...

There has been some amazing research recently into the effects of, would you believe, berries on the processes of brain ageing.

The clear winner is the humble blueberry. Researchers supplemented the diets of rats with blueberries and found some startling effects. Memory increased, curiosity increased, agility increased, the ability to cope with a changing environment improved and... and here was the real surprise, the rats actually grew new brain cells... lots of them. The really interesting part was that the rats on blueberries in the last third of their lives (the time equivalent to humans over 60) outperformed the control rats (that is, those not on bluberries) in the first third of their lives, when those rats should have been at their mental and physical peak.

When they extended the reseach to humans who had early stage alzheimers, they found a remarkable improvement on just half a cup of berries a day.

Second... ageing as a disease...

The anti-ageing profession looks at ageing as the cumulative symptoms of a number of related diseases. This is a paradigm shift that much of the medical fraternity is slow to embrace, but there has been a marked difference in mainstream medical attitudes over the last four or five years.

For instance, it's not too long ago that med students used to be taught that diet and nutrition had no role to play in the prevention of disease. Hard to believe huh?

The causes of ageing appear to fall into four main categories, hormones, oxidation, inflammation and genes.

As we age, our hormone production across all major hormone groups declines, and at up to 15% per decade. That means that if you're in your mid forties, your hormone levels are depleted by more than 30%. By your late fifties, you're down to around 50%, and the decline gets faster from there.

Hormones? Yes, and there's a long list... Human Growth Hormone, DHEA, Pregnenalone, Melatonin, Testosterone, Oestrogen, Progesterone and a whole raft of others.

By restoring these hormones to the levels of, say, your mid thirties, you will restore vitality, shed weight, increase muscle mass, reduce your risk of heart attack and stroke, and reduce the risk of diabetes.

This isn't urban myth, or science fiction. It's real, heavily researched medicine being practiced by a growing number of mainstream doctors all over the world... BUT... you need to do it in balance. Just rushing off to your local drug store isn't going to help that much.

Medically, it's the same logic as treating diabetes (which is caused by an impaired insulin regulation and production mechanism) by giving a patient insulin.

And oxidation? Do you mean we rust? Yes... sort of.

The very process that keeps us alive, that is the burning of oxygen to provide cellular energy, is the same proces that causes us to age. The so-called anti-oxidants really do perform a vital role in keeping you alive. There are lots of them... and one of the most powerful is melatonin, a hormone that, yes, declines with age just like all the rest. A part of the reason blueberries might protect brains may lie in their high value as anti-oxidant food.

If you supplement your diet with a broad range of anti-oxidant foods, you'll be preventing some of the damage that we associate with ageing.

Now if you think that just by eating right, you will get all the right nitrition, and hence all the anti-oxidants you need, you'd be very wrong indeed. Modern farming practices, and depletion of soils has meant a quantifiable decline in the nutritional value of key foods over the last 50 years. In fact, in a study published by the American College of Nutrition, researchers looked at measures of nutritional values for 43 key garden crops in 1999, and compared them with the same crop values published in 1950. In some cases, the nutritional content had dropped by 36%!

The moral of that is that if you're not taking balanced nutritional supplements, then start.

Then there's the new kid on the block, inflammation. The more we look, the more we're coming to understand that some of the symptoms we now associate with ageing may be cased by chronic low level inflammation.

For example, it is just possible that our hormone levels decline because the capilliaries that carry blood to the glands that secrete them may be inflamed, thereby reducing the flow of blood, which in turn depresses production.

The bottom line is this... there isn't a person reading this who should not be taking at least 2grams of high quality fish oil every day (that's usually two gel caps). Fish oil is a superb natural anti-inflammatory, and the list of diseases/conditions that fish oil helps would fill a telephone book. In fact, it would be easier to write a list of diseases fish oil didn't help.

Finally, there are genes. It appears that, for now, no matter how healthy the hormone modulation, anti-oxidants, fish oil and nutritional supplements keep us, we have a genetic use-by date. In humans, that looks to be around 110-115 years of age.

So... is ageing a treatable disease? Yes, and no. Yes, in that the primary goal of research right now is to stop that long, slow, debilitating decline in physical and mental function that we currently associate with "getting old". And, depending on how much money you've got, we can be relatively successful at that. We're all still going to die, but changes in thinking within the medical profession over the next 20 years will mean that for many of us, death will come while we're hang gliding, mountain climbing or scuba diving at age 97.

For more reading, I recommend the Life Entension Foundation website at www.lef.org, and the website of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (or A4M, which is the doctors' professional association that certifies anti-aging medical specialists) at www.worldhealth.net.


No matter how advanced science will be,it will never be able to stop aging only to relatively to slow it down,even if they find out everything.And,yes,oxydation affects us,much like it affects everything on Earth.It's much like scientists are trying to find a way to control all atmospheric weather,eruptions of volcanoes and supervolcanoes-that's absurd.Things like aging and the Earth's atmospheric weather control will always be totally impossible,you don't have to be scientist to know that.
 
duendy said:
are you gonna help make all animals live longer and longer, or just white middle class people? Obviously making animals live longer, we would quickly realize that such a situation would spoil a BALANCE wouldn't we???

That "balance" was spoiled a very very long time ago, when humans started using intelligence and creativity instead of instinct.

duendy said:
you see, the way i am looking at this scientific desire to one-up on Nature--by defying aging and the slowing down of physiology, is that it is ignore-ant and utterly selfish

Actually, this IS nature's reasoning. Nature already does EXACTLY what we're trying to do. You see, our role in nature is not merely to breed. In any species, when you delay reproduction over a few generations, you extend life span. In other words, if a species breeds later in life, then individual members of that species will live longer. ANY species! It doesn't matter whether you're a fruit fly, coelacanth, hawk or human. If, over a number of generations, that species delays reproduction until later in life, it extends the life span and health span of that species.

This is nature's way of ensuring that the strongest, fittest, and most intelligent are able to propogate, and in higher species, it allows the young to benefit from the knowledge and experience of the older, without being weighed down by the need to look after them.

duendy said:
If your dream comes true and we have 70 as the new 40, and onwards, which means more people zappin about eating for energy, touristing, using up all the LIMITEd resources, well its gonna be even more fuked up that its been isn't it?

This is not a dream. It is real medicine, and I hope 70 does become the new 40, because the human, physical and financial resources required to sustain an infirm, demented geriatric are FAR GREATER than are required to sustain a 40 year old, even with that 40 year old's self consumption. The "silly" reasoning here is the reasoning that says growing feeble and infirm is just part of growing old.

duendy said:
THe materilasitc-mechanistic scientiicif people FEAr death. They simply cannot see a reason for it. they are unconsciousy affected by thepatriarchal mythology they believe they have rejected which also fears death! this is why they seek to defy it,

I do not fear death. I fear being confined to a wheelchair while my grandchild, who I have known and loved all his life and who I no longer recognise, spoon feeds me baby food, wipes my arse and changes my oxygen bottle every day for the next ten years.

But perhaps in your thinking, we should all have use by dates... compulsory euthenasia where, say, on our 50th, or 40th, or even 30th birthday, we're put down to make way for a new generation. (Sounds like a plot for a really bad B grade science fiction film... oh, wait... someones already made it)

duendy said:
i am all for good nutrition of course. but we have to give thought to the idea of an elite few living into their hundreds further leeching all the resources from the many others--As is happening right NOW, though at least they die sooner than your dream wishes

You can't choose. The very research which is telling you what "good nutrition" really is, is the same research that's going to extend both my life span AND my health span.

And if you think it's indecent, somehow, that for now, only the wealthier can afford to benefit from this research, then you do not understand how the supply chain works. You do not understand that just about anything you take for granted today started its life being so expensive that it was out of the reach of all but "the few leeches who live of the resources of others".

Perhaps, comrade, you need to study a little more history before you weigh into debates about the future.
 
huh?...you mean you think you've made good points?
wishfull thinking not thought out more like dude.
 
LIGHTBEING said:
I think it would help space exploration and possibly migrating to other planets due to over population.

To migrate to other planets, you need a colossal amount of energy and technology. Both of which are currently not sufficient enough to do such a venture.

Even then, that planet would overpopulate due to steady growth (overpopulation being defined as when a population exceeds maintainable levels and/or depletes a key resource that supports it's numbers [space, oil, natural gas, agricultural land, etc.]) and we'd be right back in the same boat again.
 
YES..........!
the dream of the patriarchs.
To escape Nature, and 'return' to the stars. the roots of this dream is plain to see in its mythology.
it's not up there we need to explore, but the Deep. Understanding the natrual ALLY of death. not in a nihilistic way, but doing so enriches life
 
chestertb said:
That "balance" was spoiled a very very long time ago, when humans started using intelligence and creativity instead of instinct.



Actually, this IS nature's reasoning. Nature already does EXACTLY what we're trying to do. You see, our role in nature is not merely to breed. In any species, when you delay reproduction over a few generations, you extend life span. In other words, if a species breeds later in life, then individual members of that species will live longer. ANY species! It doesn't matter whether you're a fruit fly, coelacanth, hawk or human. If, over a number of generations, that species delays reproduction until later in life, it extends the life span and health span of that species.

This is nature's way of ensuring that the strongest, fittest, and most intelligent are able to propogate, and in higher species, it allows the young to benefit from the knowledge and experience of the older, without being weighed down by the need to look after them.



This is not a dream. It is real medicine, and I hope 70 does become the new 40, because the human, physical and financial resources required to sustain an infirm, demented geriatric are FAR GREATER than are required to sustain a 40 year old, even with that 40 year old's self consumption. The "silly" reasoning here is the reasoning that says growing feeble and infirm is just part of growing old.



I do not fear death. I fear being confined to a wheelchair while my grandchild, who I have known and loved all his life and who I no longer recognise, spoon feeds me baby food, wipes my arse and changes my oxygen bottle every day for the next ten years.

But perhaps in your thinking, we should all have use by dates... compulsory euthenasia where, say, on our 50th, or 40th, or even 30th birthday, we're put down to make way for a new generation. (Sounds like a plot for a really bad B grade science fiction film... oh, wait... someones already made it)



You can't choose. The very research which is telling you what "good nutrition" really is, is the same research that's going to extend both my life span AND my health span.

And if you think it's indecent, somehow, that for now, only the wealthier can afford to benefit from this research, then you do not understand how the supply chain works. You do not understand that just about anything you take for granted today started its life being so expensive that it was out of the reach of all but "the few leeches who live of the resources of others".

Perhaps, comrade, you need to study a little more history before you weigh into debates about the future.

Chestarth,none lives forever,and nothing lasts forever.humans didn't make the imbalance in the nature,since scientists have proofs that nature was imbalanced in past,too.Humans have almost zero effect on nature.
Medicine will never be able to give us eternal life,not because of its genes that can be repaired,but there are many other factors here,one of them is that we oxydate like everything and everyone else on the planet,we're totally powerless against it.
 
How do you work out,"humans have almost a zero effect on Nature"...?

what, you mean billions of us have no effect on Nature? not likely is it? and what about the impoverishment of Nature for many others, the extinction of thousands of species, the cutting down of vast amounts of forests, global warming (please dont say therer is absolute proof we have no part in it)......intoxicating the seas, air, water, etc etc

Of course we are having a devastating effect on Nature due to our ignoreance of Nature's intelligence
 
duendy said:
How do you work out,"humans have almost a zero effect on Nature"...?

what, you mean billions of us have no effect on Nature? not likely is it? and what about the impoverishment of Nature for many others, the extinction of thousands of species, the cutting down of vast amounts of forests, global warming (please dont say therer is absolute proof we have no part in it)......intoxicating the seas, air, water, etc etc

Of course we are having a devastating effect on Nature due to our ignoreance of Nature's intelligence


Simply,because scientists already said that there have been natural global warmings,natural imbalances,fluctuations of magnetic fields,everything that happens today,in the past has already happened.We don't have devastating effect on nature,we have only devastating on ourselves.Human species will destroy itself.Thousands of species have gone forever,so what?Nature is wiping out all kinds of species all the time in these 4 billion years.Let's suppose humans are not at the top of food chain,but pigs are,for example.And let's suppose they are equally intelligent,emotional and with all other characteristics that people have.Pigs would act the same as people are-they would destroy forests,and forget about all other species and they will destroy the other species,as well.For survival is important to eat meat,so if you eat meat you eat animal-it has to be like that,otherwise because of that humanity we would be all dead.All so called moral,religious,justiceful and love values are getting completely lost when species are hungry and thirsty-nature is cruel,in general.
Nature doesn't have intelligence,it's a closed biosystem.
 
Gravage said:
Simply,because scientists already said that there have been natural global warmings,natural imbalances,fluctuations of magnetic fields,everything that happens today,in the past has already happened.

d))Yes. NATURAL.

We don't have devastating effect on nature,we have only devastating on ourselves.

d)))WE aren't some alien force that's dropped INTO 'Nature'. we ARE Nature. so what we do to Nature we do to ourselves. Obviously

Human species will destroy itself.Thousands of species have gone forever,so what?

d))oh dear. VERY compassionate i must say.







Nature is wiping out all kinds of species all the time in these 4 billion years.Let's suppose humans are not at the top of food chain,but pigs are,for example.And let's suppose they are equally intelligent,emotional and with all other characteristics that people have.Pigs would act the same as people are-they would destroy forests,and forget about all other species and they will destroy the other species,as well.For survival is important to eat meat,so if you eat meat you eat animal-it has to be like that,otherwise because of that humanity we would be all dead.All so called moral,religious,justiceful and love values are getting completely lost when species are hungry and thirsty-nature is cruel,in general.

d))you pain all with your bush dude, or girl. it is not ALL hman species who have been so UTTERLY ignorant and selfish and hateful towards Nature you know. you should broaden your horizons and look at mythology, and the VISION of the fkers doing what they are doing to Nature. havng the very same attitude as your education seems to have given you. "so what!"!

Nature doesn't have intelligence,it's a closed biosystem.

no. YOU are closes biosystem. you areclosed off to insight about Intelligence of Nature, otherwise you wouldn't speak such uninformed nonesense
 
duendy said:
no. YOU are closes biosystem. you areclosed off to insight about Intelligence of Nature, otherwise you wouldn't speak such uninformed nonesense

I'm uninformed?You're the one who is uninformed,I'm just stating what scientists said and investigated about how much people affected Earth,in the past these were all common things,natural processes,like hole in the ozone layer and etc..What intelligence nature has?Zero,it doesn't store memory,it doesn't have feelings,you have give me one good proof that nature has intelligence.
 
Yeah, but why would anyone want to live forever anyways. Can you imagine all the experiences that you would accumulate that would make your life more-and-more complex. That's not the problem, but because our mental intellectual ability is limited, there would be so much that we would forget that what's the point? You'd start forgetting everything you've done and be back to stage one, or worse yet, other people would start questioning you abou this or that and you wouldn't be able to remember. Then you'd feel like you're stupid. Isn't the limit on our age ability set just right about now - maybe 100 years.
 
"there's no time for us...
there's no place for us..
what is this thing, that builds our dreams?
yet, slips away, from us...

who wants, to live, forever?"
 
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