Is Abortion Murder?

[Bowser]

There are those who have multiple embryos clinically produced so that they can sort through them, picking one that has no genetic defects--according to an article I read. How do I feel about such advances? I'm not certain. On one side we have a parent with a genetic defect that leans towards a family history of cancer. on the other we have a laboratory churning out thousands of viable cells. If anything, it might be pointing to a trend in the near future when all genetic disabilities are filtered out of the human genome.

 

[Bowser]

It may be that the fate of millions will some day rest in a petri dish and the clinical eye of a lab technician.

 

[Capracus]

Let's say I'm a 15 year old high school dropout nympho that cannot satisfy her insatiable lust. And even though the government does supply free contraceptives, I get pregnant every other day cause I'm living the American Dream. My only job is prostitution, but sometimes I don't wait around -and this is how I didn't get caught till I was like 25.

Let’s say a simple, safe and reversible method of sterilization or contraception is developed, and when children reach the age of 12 they are essentially vaccinated against fertility. So in my country, you wouldn’t need additional contraception to live out your dream of a nymphomaniac prostitute. If your career as a prostitute was sufficiently prosperous, and you could demonstrate a required degree of parenting skills, you would be permitted have the procedure reversed in order to conceive.

How would you stop me in your country? Do I have to show papers to police every time I look pregnant? Would you put me in jail for life, or sentence me to death? If I'm not financially sound and had 26 children, how would that effect your judgement? Would you force me to have my tubes tied? Would you ban me from having sex? Would you have forced me to abort every time or something, if I don't have a permit? What?

Presently in our country, a woman who is not financially sound with 26 kids would likely be cited by child services for child neglect and face loosing custody of her children. In my ideal country, after having two children the permit is withdrawn and fertility is again neutralized, leaving you free to fornicate to your hearts content.

 

[iceaura]

It must be kind of hard on you, knowing as you do that you have no more regard for a human embryo or early fetus than anyone else, but believing that you should.
Uhm,,,What?

You can read.

You do have information regarding churches in your culture who routinely allow - even support, finance, etc - flushing living human embryos down the toilet and incinerating them as medical waste.
Say what? No, I don't.

Yes, you do. All major denominations of Christianity, for example, have congregations with fertile women becoming pregnant, finance hospitals and the like, and so forth. None of them have religious practices for handling miscarried embryos and ectopic pregnancy any differently than anyone else handles them.

There are those who have multiple embryos clinically produced so that they can sort through them, picking one that has no genetic defects--according to an article I read. How do I feel about such advances? I'm not certain.

Here you have exactly the situation you described earlier as "easier" - only one life involved, the embryo's - and you aren't sure whether murdering them for eugenic advantage is ok or not.

Like I said: you don't believe a human embryo is a living human being any more than anyone else does. The problem you have with abortion has nothing to do with the embryo being, to you, a person with a right to life or anything else.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Let’s say a simple, safe and reversible method of sterilization or contraception is developed, and when children reach the age of 12 they are essentially vaccinated against fertility. So in my country, you wouldn’t need additional contraception to live out your dream of a nymphomaniac prostitute. If your career as a prostitute was sufficiently prosperous, and you could demonstrate a required degree of parenting skills, you would be permitted have the procedure reversed in order to conceive.


Presently in our country, a woman who is not financially sound with 26 kids would likely be cited by child services for child neglect and face loosing custody of her children. In my ideal country, after having two children the permit is withdrawn and fertility is again neutralized, leaving you free to fornicate to your hearts content.

Whoa!

I believe you think that Americans have too much freedom, am I correct?

 

[Bowser]

I suppose there are limits...

 

[Dr_Toad]

Too subtle? Too bad.

 

[Daecon]

There are those who have multiple embryos clinically produced so that they can sort through them, picking one that has no genetic defects--according to an article I read. How do I feel about such advances? I'm not certain. On one side we have a parent with a genetic defect that leans towards a family history of cancer. on the other we have a laboratory churning out thousands of viable cells. If anything, it might be pointing to a trend in the near future when all genetic disabilities are filtered out of the human genome.

What about when Human cloning is perfected? Then every single cell will be a "viable" cell and can be used to grown a person. Having your appendix or tonsils removed will be tantamount to murder as well, right?

 

[Bells]

Let’s say a simple, safe and reversible method of sterilization or contraception is developed, and when children reach the age of 12 they are essentially vaccinated against fertility.

Wow..

So in my country, you wouldn’t need additional contraception to live out your dream of a nymphomaniac prostitute. If your career as a prostitute was sufficiently prosperous, and you could demonstrate a required degree of parenting skills, you would be permitted have the procedure reversed in order to conceive.

We can only avidly hope that you never enter the political fray.

Presently in our country, a woman who is not financially sound with 26 kids would likely be cited by child services for child neglect and face loosing custody of her children.

That would be if she neglected her children.

In my ideal country, after having two children the permit is withdrawn and fertility is again neutralized, leaving you free to fornicate to your hearts content.

You should move to China.

I take it in your country, you are also against surrogacy and the like? What if a child dies and the parents want to have more? Since, you know, once the 2nd child is born, in your ideal world, the parents would be sterilised. What happens if someone has multiple births? Do you take some away from her? Nuke them in utero so that she only ends up with 2? What happens if she sneaks off and has a third child before the State sanctioned sterilisation? Do you fine her? Imprison her and force sterilisation on her? What if people do not want to be sterilised after two or when they are 12?

As I noted above, you are a control freak. Not only do you tell women who to vote for, urge women to get abortions if you don't think they should have children, you also believe that you, or your ideal Government, should be regulating people's reproductive choices to the extent where people are being sterilised, possibly against their will or want.

 

[Bowser]

What about when Human cloning is perfected? Then every single cell will be a "viable" cell and can be used to grown a person. Having your appendix or tonsils removed will be tantamount to murder as well, right?

Well, that would be an ethical question for that time, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't human cloning illegal at present?

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Well, that would be an ethical question for that time, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't human cloning illegal at present?

Um... Why did you post that video about having kids, is that illegal at present?

 

[Bowser]

Um... Why did you post that video about having kids, is that illegal at present?

I don't believe having children is considered cloning, if that is what you're hinting.

 

[Dr_Toad]

Too subtle? Too bad.

Really?

 

[Daecon]

Well, that would be an ethical question for that time, right?

Why can't you answer it now? You're the one who's talking about "viable cells". Either all viable cells are potential people, or they're just cells.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't human cloning illegal at present?

Irrelevant.

 

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

the embryo is consider less than human, which makes it a legitimate target for extermination

but... given your preoccupation with life... you would think you could find some legitimate evidence that [a fetus during the accepted terms for abortion] is a viable organism with the ability to survive without assistance...
you haven't

this also goes back to your complete disregard for any life that isn't human as well as your ever changing goalposts regarding the definition of "life" etc

Once again, it's the value that our culture assigns to their lives that shows similarity

no, it isn't. this is your personal perception based upon your (ever moving goalpost - or- ever changing) definitions. it may well be your culture, but not mine... nor is it everyone else's. this is an assumption on your part.
as noted: you do not care about life, only your perceptions of human life

I have no information regarding any churches in my culture that are currently killing individuals; whereas, there are plenty of abortion clinics doing just that.

right. because the Holy Wars were verbal exchanges ??

and to utilise the word "currently" is disingenuous at best...so what you are saying is: the life of a person/human is worth more now than it was, say, during the Inquisition?
or are you selectively saying that life was so cheap back then that it was ok to murder it in a war of "who's god was more loving"? (you do realise that the wars were between abrahamic religions during the holy wars and even the Inquisition?)

why do you feel that human life is so much more precious now than it was then?
after all, some of the ugliest wars were between the Abrahamic religions alone - which is stupid considering their origin!

When a church actively cultivates a culture of death...sure

then you should be picketing any and every abrahamic faith... and anything similar, for that matter!
you don't read your bible, do you?
if you belong to an Abrahamic religion, then your bible actively cultivates a culture of not only death, but prejudice and worse! so as long as you even consider yourself a part-time christian, then your religion actively cultivates death, hate, inequality, prejudice and more:
Violence cleanses evil PROV 20:30
enslave your neighbors who worship other gods LEV 25:44-46
you should kill people who work on the sabbath (SAT, by the way, not the modern SUN) NUM 15:32-36
Kill children who curse their parents EXO 21:15,17
selling your daughter is ok-here are the ways to do it EXO 21:7-8
Rape is a crime against the husband. women who don't shout loud enough when being raped should be killed, regardless of the reason for the rape DEUT 22:23-24
Women are not equivalent to men 1TIM 2:12
Jesus didn't bring peace, but came to pit family against each other LUK 12:51-53
Jesus didn't bring peace MAT 10:34

think you don't have to abide by the old laws or old testament in your abrahamic religion of xtianity? think again!
Your jesus said all the old laws still apply! MAT 5:17-19
just in case you didn't know it... this applies to judaism, christianity and islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

Oh, "historical atrocities... I suppose I could travel to Germany and protest the holocaust, but it would probably be received with mutual agreement. Pointless.

it is not historical atrocities when your religion still actively supports it
..... the historical atrocities is simply a proof of the horrors of accepting religion... it is proof of the power of fanaticism. you may not think it is still applicable, however, your abrahamic religions still actively promote the bible as the holy word of god when said book advocates death.
given the passages are not deleted from the holy tome, then we can conclude that they're still applicable and holy, right?
therefore, your tome advocates premeditated murder upon a people, justified or not, as long as said people do not practice your specific denomination of faith... and considering the multiple factions of modern xtianity, then that means everyone who is not of your denomination.
see also: above

this is the whole problem i have with your "life is precious" argument
1- you base it upon your personal emotional state and beliefs
2- if your beliefs are derived from the morals of a xtian lifestyle, then it is prejudiced and promotes hate, death etc (see above-bible issues)
3- it selectively ignores any other relevant life except human- why?
4- it is not realistic nor is it valid because it is religious based, and a religion is by its very nature, designed to control others and cause prejudice. shall i describe that again?

so... i will ask it again: why aren't you out picketing churches because they teach from a book of hate that promotes a culture of death?
logically speaking, the abrahamic religion bible calls for it simply because your neighbors don't believe as you do, or work different hours than you, etc

EDIT:
almost forgot - according to your bible, masturbation is classified as mass murder....
See 1COR as well as ECC for details...

thus any church that has humans (especially males) who masturbate or waste their "seed", they are killing unborn children.

think on that a spell

 

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

In any other circumstance I would be fully devoted to the cause for a woman's independence. I have two independent women at home--smart, hardworking, and opinionated.

wait a minute... so, you are against womens equality?
this post means that you are lying, IMHO... definitely trolling, IMHO...
basically it says: you will allow a woman to make a decision as long as it fits your own personal biases and beliefs...

well, if they're biblical and in any way based upon the bible used by xtians (or all the abrahamic religions) then you are also wrong for believing in equality in women, considering the passages. (see above)
so you are either following the bible and sexist, or you are trolling with your "selective equality"... which is it?
and why should it matter when a woman makes a decision about her own body simply because of an internal clump of cellular tissue that is not a viable organism?
(goes back to your argument about life, which is seriously flawed)
do you consider a woman incapable of making a decision about her body when cancerous tissue is involved?
what about anything involving the ovaries (especially as they're required for reproduction)?
how about taking antibiotics???

where do you draw the line and why is it so selective that you must differentiate instead of her?

 

[tali89]

So now people on this thread are misrepresenting Capracus as being in favor of eugenics, as if falsely accusing him of being in favor of coercing his daughter into having an abortion wasn't enough. You guys weren't satisfied with cannibalizing just one of your own left-wing colleagues (ie. Magical Realist), so you needed to start on Capracus?

 

[Beer w/Straw]

So now people on this thread are misrepresenting Capracus as being in favor of eugenics, as if falsely accusing him of being in favor of coercing his daughter into having an abortion wasn't enough. You guys weren't satisfied with cannibalizing just one of your own left-wing colleagues (ie. Magical Realist), so you needed to start on Capracus?

Did I really?

 

[Daecon]

blah blah blah left-wing blah blah blah

*yawn*

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I don't believe having children is considered cloning, if that is what you're hinting.

Of course it is not cloning, but I thought life was a miracle in your eyes.

You think she should have been sterilized or forced to have an abortion, what?