Irish dog fighting.

[Captain Kremmen]

No, people definitely don't need to eat meat -

I think modern day people don't need to eat meat, and with a sedentary lifestyle vegetarianism may be a healthy way to eat.

If you were working hard, as your great grandfather did, it might be hard to take in the amount of energy you needed in vegetables.

An Irish farm labourer, pre-famine, ate up to 13 pounds of potatoes a day.
Plus Milk, Bread, butter etc.
I'm sure that they took in as much meat and fat as they could get.

 

[Enmos]

If you're just stating your opinions, then why are you arguing so much? If you want to just state your opinions, then there's no need to discuss anything, is there?

No, by continuing the "discussion", you're actually trying to change the opinions of others to your way of thinking ....even if you claim that's not your intention. You're trying to defend your position, which is tantamount to trying to make others beleive as you believe.

Well, I don't know how you can know that, or even think it with the rate of repeat offenders in the world.

But many, if not most, Muslims think it's the right thing to do. Should we string up those people, too?

Just remember; Humans suck giant donkey dicks. And anything and everything that they do, someone will complain about it ....and maybe even try to blow them up for it.

Baron Max

If you're just stating your opinions, then why are you arguing so much? If you want to just state your opinions, then there's no need to discuss anything, is there?
Well.. are you forcing your opinions on me ? If not, why are you arguing so much ? :shrug:
You are continuing the discussion as much as I am. In fact you started it :shrug:

No, by continuing the "discussion", you're actually trying to change the opinions of others to your way of thinking ....even if you claim that's not your intention. You're trying to defend your position, which is tantamount to trying to make others beleive as you believe.
I don't agree with that, I can defend my position without wanting to force my views on to anyone. I want you to understand my views, not adopt them (although it wouldn't hurt).

Well, I don't know how you can know that, or even think it with the rate of repeat offenders in the world.
Because people have a conscience, except for psychopaths.

But many, if not most, Muslims think it's the right thing to do. Should we string up those people, too?
I didn't really mean that it was a manner of speech. How could you string up a suicide bomber, they're dead already.

Just remember; Humans suck giant donkey dicks. And anything and everything that they do, someone will complain about it ....and maybe even try to blow them up for it.
But not all, there are many good people. But if you look at humanity in its entirety you are right (in my opinion).

 

[Nasor]

I think modern day people don't need to eat meat, and with a sedentary lifestyle vegetarianism may be a healthy way to eat.

If you were working hard, as your great grandfather did, it might be hard to take in the amount of energy you needed in vegetables.

No, not really. It's easy to get loads of calories and protein without eating meat. Not that pre-industrial conditions really have anything to do with the situation today.

 

[Enmos]

No, people definitely don't need to eat meat - and your casual dismissal of vegetarianism as "bullshit" doesn't change that. It is very well-established that you can easily get all the nutrients you need without consuming meat products. In fact, eating meat if grossly inefficient and bad for the environment; since you're moving your food source a whole step up the food chain, it takes much more resources to keep people fed on a diet of meat than it would to keep them fed on a vegetarian diet.

So let's be clear about this: we eat meat because we enjoy it. Tofu is boring (but incredibly nutritious), while steak is delicious. So, by eating meat we are choosing to kill animals for pleasure. Not that we find their deaths enjoyable in-and-of themselves, of course, but the animal has to die in order for us to take pleasure in the consumption of its delicious body, so we kill it. Both meat-eaters and people who run dog fights are killing animals for fun; they just derive their pleasure from different sources.

Some people argue that it’s okay to kill and eat an animal so long as it’s done “humanely”. That attitude has always puzzled me. If you are going to start assigning rights to beings, surely the very first right would be a right to live, wouldn’t it? I mean, everyone would agree that being killed is much worse than being maimed. If everyone here had a choice between dying a painless death or being mauled by a bear but surviving, I suspect that everyone would choose the bear. So why is it okay for us to kill animals for the enjoyment of eating them, but suddenly wrong for us to “abuse” them? At least a dog in a fight has a chance at survival; the cow who went into your hamburger never had a chance.

Edit: I should be clear hear that I happily eat meat. I just think that people who say "It's okay to kill and eat animals, but wrong to make them fight for our amusement" are being hypocrites. It's like saying "It's okay to sneak up behind someone and bash his head in with a hammer, then slit his throat before he knows what's going on if I'm only doing it because I want his wallet. But throwing someone into a gladiatorial fight that in which he might be killed or injured? Man, that's just wrong."

I know that. But stay in reality please.. do you think everyone will stop eating meat because you say they can ? People like meat.
I'm not much of a meat eater myself.. i eat very little meat. I probably eat less meat in a week than you eat in a day.

Eating animals does not involve cruel intentions, killing them for pleasure does. And that's the whole point, its about the mindset.

 

[Nasor]

I know that. But stay in reality please.. do you think everyone will stop eating meat because you say they can ? People like meat.
I'm not much of a meat eater myself.. i eat very little meat. I probably eat less meat in a week than you eat in a day.

Eating animals does not involve cruel intentions, killing them for pleasure does. And that's the whole point, its about the mindset.

I don't expect people to stop eating meat. I am simply pointing out that people who eat meat are also killing animals for pleasure. I doubt many people who are into dog fighting enjoy watching the animals suffer; they probably just enjoy the action.

 

[Enmos]

I don't expect people to stop eating meat. I am simply pointing out that people who eat meat are also killing animals for pleasure. I doubt many people who are into dog fighting enjoy watching the animals suffer; they probably just enjoy the action.

But the pleasure you get from eating a steak isn't the same kind of pleasure a (sick) person gets from killing an animal just for the fun of killing it. It's not the same thing.

But what is the action, a large part of the action is suffering. "Wow, did you see that ? How hard dog #1 just bit dog #2 ? *Big grin*"
I imagine its like watching funniest home video's on TV and some little girl falls over and hits her head against some object, people actually laugh about that..
A lot of people somehow like to see other people get hurt, its probably those same people that hurt animals for the pleasure of it.

I just want to ask: have you read all my posts in this thread ? If not, please read them. If you did, please read my posts in the "
Should ants have rights?" thread, it's a similar discussion and you may get a better idea of what I mean.

 

[sniffy]

why aren't more women involved in it?

They prefer to wear the fur of the animal when it's dead...
Women are involved.
And a lot of the dogs come from America and those lands of tolerance Sweden and Denmark.

 

[sniffy]

Please think about these three words; Legality, gratuitous, cruelty.

Dogs are territorial. If a dog is unsocialised and unused to meeting other dogs it will fight any dog that passes into its territory. It will also fight to defend its pack members. Anyone who owns a dog should know this and has a responsibility to train and socialise the dog so that it doesn't attack other dogs and humans when out for walkies. Failing that when it goes out it should be muzzled which sends out a strong signal to others that the dog should be avoided.

Dog fighting is illegal in the UK and Ireland and the USA as far as I know. So is assault and murder on a fellow human being. None of the latter things mentioned are 'lifestyles'. They are illegal activities so anyone carrying out such activities will know they are in for it if they are caught. No suprise then that there is lots of secrecy involved in dog fighting.

The reason that dog fighting is illegal is that it involves gratuitous cruelty which ends in the maiming and death of the animals concerned. These animals have no contol or choice about their situation. They do what their instincts tell them to. Those humans participating and any observers know these animals suffer because of the noises they make and because of the wounds inflicted. In these fights there are no referees to step in to protect any animal too injured to defend itself. A damning fact in itself.

Now whilst it certainly may be hypocritical to kill animals for food and I have no doubt whatsover that if we had some undercover agents filming in abbatoirs and the results of that filming were shown on primetime TV that eating meat would stop over night. However I conclude that there is a difference between dog fighting that is gratuitously cruel, illegal and done for betting purposes - lots of money involved - and the killing of animals to provide food. A discussion about the latter should be a subject of another thread as it is actually irellevant to this one - in my opinion.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

No, not really. It's easy to get loads of calories and protein without eating meat. Not that pre-industrial conditions really have anything to do with the situation today.

What I am saying is that a diet high in meat, and especially fat, is more suitable for people who expend a large number of calories. They can take in a good proportion of vegetables as well and it all gets flushed through.
With a sedentary lifestyle, a low meat or vegetarian diet is probably healthier.

In countries where the standard of living is rising, they are doing less physical work, and eating more meat.
My guess is that there will be an increase in health problems in those countries.

 

[Roman]

Hmm, either way or both ways, that would be making a very, very bold generalization, wouldn't it?

**

Michael Vick likes dogfighting. Michael Vick was a black man ...therefore all black men like dogfighting.

Michael Vick likes dogfighting. Michael Vick is an American ...therefore all Americans like dogfighting.

Gerard Cavlan and Michael Vick are males. Cavlan and Vick like dogfighting ...therefore all males like dogfighting.

Cavlan is Irish and likes dogfighting. Therefore, all Irishmen like dogfighting.

QED

Baron Max

Holy shit, BM used QED? Whoa.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Vick?
Isn't that something you stick up your nose?

 

[Tiassa]

Nature is not extraneous

I don't expect people to stop eating meat. I am simply pointing out that people who eat meat are also killing animals for pleasure.

Wow, Nasor. You're smarter than nature itself! Must have taken some work.

(Hint: Nature is not extraneous.)