Iraq Veterans vulnerable to commit suicide

[shichimenshyo]

Today in the papers:

American Iraq Veterans are very vulnerable to commit suicide. Most of them return with severe psychological problems, such as post traumatic stress syndrome.
The papers wrote that the deathrate from postwar suicides is higher then the deathrate on the battleground.

Togheter with this phenomena a lot of veterans, from Iraq and Afghanistan, end up homeless. They live on the streets and are not helped not materialy not financialy.

If this is correct I wonder why people in the USA are driving around with stickers on their cars: 'I support our troups'.
Is nobody taking care of the young men and women that are risking their lives in a allready absurd war??


THAT IS THE TOPIC

 

[John99]

S.A.M,

Have you borne children?

 

[S.A.M.]

Today in the papers:

American Iraq Veterans are very vulnerable to commit suicide. Most of them return with severe psychological problems, such as post traumatic stress syndrome.
The papers wrote that the deathrate from postwar suicides is higher then the deathrate on the battleground.

Togheter with this phenomena a lot of veterans, from Iraq and Afghanistan, end up homeless. They live on the streets and are not helped not materialy not financialy.

If this is correct I wonder why people in the USA are driving around with stickers on their cars: 'I support our troups'.
Is nobody taking care of the young men and women that are risking their lives in a allready absurd war??


THAT IS THE TOPIC

Its an absurd war. The troops are fools used as pawns. The victims are not even important enough to be counted. Troops are useful only if they can be counted on to stand and fight. Otherwise they belong on a garbage dump, along with all the justifications for this war.

 

[S.A.M.]

Naive, is thy name, SpAM, if anyone here is naive in their view of world politics it is you.

Yeah, I should learn to be smart like you and go kill people in other countries because they don't share my ideologies. How many people you killed, Buffy?

 

[quadraphonics]

What you did was offer your perspective,

It's not my perspective, it's the standard, accepted, well-documented history of the event. This stuff is uncontroversial, and trying to assert some kind of equivalence between our statements is specious. You're spouting nutcase theories that are so at variance with the facts that only the willfully ignorant could go in for them. Persist if you care to, but understand that you're relegating yourself to the status of a conspiracy theorist.

which as I said, is a naive view that ignores the fact that the US did not ever fight any communist state that was equally armed or able to defend itself.

Ignoring the huge war we fought against China in the Korean peninsula, that assertion doesn't contradict the standard version of events which I have recounted. The view was that the communist bloc was too powerful to be directly confronted, and so had to be contained, lest it become so strong as to be insurmountable, even at the cost of supporting some French colonialism (which was as much about ensuring French solidarity in resisting Communism in Europe as it did with considerations about Asia, by the way).

 

[S.A.M.]

It's not my perspective, it's the standard, accepted, well-documented history of the event. This stuff is uncontroversial, and trying to assert some kind of equivalence between our statements is specious. You're spouting nutcase theories that are so at variance with the facts that only the willfully ignorant could go in for them. Persist if you care to, but understand that you're relegating yourself to the status of a conspiracy theorist.

Ignoring the huge war we fought against China in the Korean peninsula, that assertion doesn't contradict the standard version of events which I have recounted. The view was that the communist bloc was too powerful to be directly confronted, and so had to be contained, lest it become so strong as to be insurmountable, even at the cost of supporting some French colonialism (which was as much about ensuring French solidarity in resisting Communism in Europe as it did with considerations about Asia, by the way).

IOW, they only fought small defenseless countries. I bet China wasn't nuclear during the Korean war or even as militarily advanced.

 

[quadraphonics]

IOW, they only fought small defenseless countries.

Rather, the battlegrounds on which we waged proxy wars against the USSR and China were small (relatively) defenseless countries. If we'd just been fighting North Vietnam or North Korea, we'd have won handily. That we didn't is pretty clear evidence that something else was going on.

I bet China wasn't nuclear during the Korean war or even as militarily advanced.

No, and they're still not as militarily advanced. However, they had (and still have) many more soldiers than the US Army, which is why the war ground on for years and resulted in a stalemate. We crushed the North Koreans very early in the war, just as Mao had expected us to; it was the millions of Chinese soldiers he then marched into Korea that determined the eventual outcome.

 

[S.A.M.]

Rather, the battlegrounds on which we waged proxy wars against the USSR and China were small (relatively) defenseless countries. If we'd just been fighting North Vietnam or North Korea, we'd have won handily. That we didn't is pretty clear evidence that something else was going on.

Yeah, there were way too many people to kill and nuclear bombs were politically incorrect. Or judging by the wars fought since, US troops are inept.

No, and they're still not as militarily advanced. However, they had (and still have) many more soldiers than the US Army, which is why the war ground on for years and resulted in a stalemate. We crushed the North Koreans very early in the war, just as Mao had expected us to; it was the millions of Chinese soldiers he then marched into Korea that determined the eventual outcome.

Yup, which is why the US mainly uses air raids, missiles and tanks. And prefer to fight countries without nuclear weapons.

I don't see the US fighting any country capable of defending itself. One reason why they don't go to actual war in South America I suppose, too close for comfort.

 

[countezero]

Another thread derailed and ruined by Sam...

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Yeah, I should learn to be smart like you and go kill people in other countries because they don't share my ideologies. How many people you killed, Buffy?

Still trying to change the focus of the Debate, you have lost SpAM, now which way will you run, your like a chicken who is running from the Farmer, its dinner time.

 

[S.A.M.]

Still trying to change the focus of the Debate, you have lost SpAM, now which way will you run, your like a chicken who is running from the Farmer, its dinner time.

Yeah poor me, I lost, now you can go on killing innocent people in other countries while your homeless veterans commit suicide. Wow, what a winner you are.

 

[shichimenshyo]

I think a huge part of the problem is the increasing length of combat deployment, and the huge lack of down time. Also alot of soldiers are going on 3+ tours of duty. Its bound to take its toll.

 

[S.A.M.]

Another thread derailed and ruined by Sam...

Why? I find it complete nonsense that everyone thinks the veterans committing suicide is somehow separate from the US policy of pointless wars and killing innocent people. Its a wonder that there are still some veterans with a conscience left in the US forces.

 

[shichimenshyo]

Why? I find it complete nonsense that everyone thinks the veterans committing suicide is somehow separate from the US policy of pointless wars and killing innocent people. Its a wonder that there are still some veterans with a conscience left in the US forces.

We are trying to find the specific reasons why veterans are more prone to suicide.

 

[quadraphonics]

I find it complete nonsense that everyone thinks the veterans committing suicide is somehow separate from the US policy of pointless wars and killing innocent people.

It's only nonsense if said veterans share your opinions of United States policy. Which is a dubious proposition, to say the least, and one that you haven't done anything whatsoever to support.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Today in the papers:

American Iraq Veterans are very vulnerable to commit suicide. Most of them return with severe psychological problems, such as post traumatic stress syndrome.
The papers wrote that the deathrate from postwar suicides is higher then the deathrate on the battleground.

Togheter with this phenomena a lot of veterans, from Iraq and Afghanistan, end up homeless. They live on the streets and are not helped not materialy not financialy.

If this is correct I wonder why people in the USA are driving around with stickers on their cars: 'I support our troups'.
Is nobody taking care of the young men and women that are risking their lives in a allready absurd war??


THAT IS THE TOPIC

Again the thing that drives PTSD in the troops if their own perceived self failure to save their friends, and the innocent, caught in the meat grinder of war, and the indiscriminate killing of children by the Terrorist, my vets group just had a Iraqi veteran join, and in talking to him that is one of the things that is really tearing into him, the savagery that is shown by the Terrorist towards the children, the fact that in the incident that he was involved in not only did he lose his buddy, but to kill one American Soldier, giving out candy to kids, the terrorist killed 17 children, no military value to that one soldier, no fire fight taking place, just a calculated detonation of a bomb that killed one American and 17 Iraqi Children, and he is berating himself because he didn't spot the IED, and get everyone to safety.

 

[quadraphonics]

Yeah, there were way too many people to kill and nuclear bombs were politically incorrect. Or judging by the wars fought since, US troops are inept.

Yup, which is why the US mainly uses air raids, missiles and tanks. And prefer to fight countries without nuclear weapons.

I don't see the US fighting any country capable of defending itself. One reason why they don't go to actual war in South America I suppose, too close for comfort.

None of which has any bearing on the fact that it was fear of Communism, and not support for colonialism, that motivated the American position in Vietnam.

Your posts would be much more persuasive if you could maintain a train of thought for more than 3 posts.

 

[S.A.M.]

None of which has any bearing on the fact that it was fear of Communism, and not support for colonialism, that motivated the American position in Vietnam.

Your posts would be much more persuasive if you could maintain a train of thought for more than 3 posts.

Fear of communism was a convenient bogeyman. Fear of <insert current bogeyman of choice> is how the US justifies its actions.The real reasons are often economic or power oriented.

 

[shichimenshyo]

Again the thing that drives PTSD in the troops if their own perceived self failure to save their friends, and the innocent, caught in the meat grinder of war, and the indiscriminate killing of children by the Terrorist, my vets group just had a Iraqi veteran join, and in talking to him that is one of the things that is really tearing into him, the savagery that is shown by the Terrorist towards the children, the fact that in the incident that he was involved in not only did he lose his buddy, but to kill one American Soldier, giving out candy to kids, the terrorist killed 17 children, no military value to that one soldier, no fire fight taking place, just a calculated detonation of a bomb that killed one American and 17 Iraqi Children, and he is berating himself because he didn't spot the IED, and get everyone to safety.

I agree, PTSD is a huge problem, as it can cause paranoia, insomnia, and severe depression. There is a huge lack of support for returing veterans, they dont get the psychological help they need. As a result they cant sleep, are short tempered and cannot function in regular society, they end up homeless as a result. I wish they were given more help.

 

[S.A.M.]

It's only nonsense if said veterans share your opinions of United States policy. Which is a dubious proposition, to say the least, and one that you haven't done anything whatsoever to support.

Killing people in theory and in practise are two different things. Look at ex-vets like Buffy, they project some kind of world view for justifying their murders. Probably the only way they can sleep at night. Does not mean they never question the credibility of what they did. The ones who can accept their roles as pawns find better ways of dealing with their actions

http://www.google.com/search?q=vete...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

The ones who cannot, kill themselves. Its not rocket science.