Iran trys to get holland to ban dutch mp's film about the "violence provoking koran"

[Michael]

Agreed, so long as its across the board. Others why pretend its freedom of expression they are defending?

I'm 100% positive that if some Muslims make a film refuting each point - it will be fine to show such a film.

 

[Roman]

I think the peaceful Muslims should show themselves en masse and denounce all terrorism. I think they should denounce all the violence in the Koran. I think if they became the majority, no one would have any problems with Muslims.

I think the peaceful Christians should denounce what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians and turn the other cheek. They should also protest en masse the Iraq war and all the suffering and blood shed it's causing.

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm 100% positive that if some Muslims make a film refuting each point - it will be fine to show such a film.

How many people read the denouncement of terrorism by Muslims? How many read news sites about terrorism?

How much media attention was devoted to Ahmedinejad's mistranslated speech? How much to what it actually meant?

Never underestimate the role of the media in controlling what people think.

 

[S.A.M.]

Which Muslims? Some would better assure that by not being unusually ridiculous, or developing a sense of proportion - even humor ? Others could simply note that ridicule is pretty well distributed, in the Western world. As is disrespect, ignorant and otherwise.

The ones who might have left behind 6 million dead in a war at home, perhaps.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=77726


What perspective do you offer them on their violent religious tendencies?

 

[Norsefire]

Then, it should be the authoritative figures within Islam that take the initiative to stop these fundamentalists from acting out their violence. It is your responsibility to show THEM, not US that Islam is a peaceful religion.



Those people may attend anger management counseling sessions to help control their anger problems. That is not anyones issue but their own and has nothing to do with the making of films. If they are unable to control their anger and lash out in violence, they will be treated as criminals and convicted.

Sometimes there are things designed specifically to get people angry. And unfortunately, they succeed.
The thing is, just as you are right that those violent should be more diplomatic, the people causing the anger should also show more respect.

 

[Norsefire]

No, we were discussing how grownups and civilized people handle things when angered by the essentially trivial.

And that's exactly it, would they find it funny or be angered?

I think you could. And we were trying to campare apples with apples - these provocations were not Dutch people going to Syria and projecting their movies on the public billboards.

But people will get angry regardless. And no, I don't think I can. I guarantee you some Danish patriotic fanatic (not that patriotism is bad though) will attack me if I did that.

No,that's not the reason.

What is the reason?
[/QUOTE]

 

[iceaura]

But people will get angry regardless. And no, I don't think I can. I guarantee you some Danish patriotic fanatic (not that patriotism is bad though) will attack me if I did that.

You jump from "angered" to "attack", still ignoring the bogus nature of the comparison (insulting the locals vs getting insulted by the locals). Can I assume this assumption of yours is based on your own religious society - you get mad, so you get violent, even over trivia ?

The ones who might have left behind 6 million dead in a war at home, perhaps.

What's that got to do with movies in Holland ?

What perspective do you offer them on their violent religious tendencies?

They should not bring them to Holland.

 

[Michael]

How many people read the denouncement of terrorism by Muslims? How many read news sites about terrorism?

I just read an article in Time by one of the many many children of Bin Laden who said he is against terrorism. He even said, we need to defend "Arabs and Muslims" but in a peaceful manner.
Surely Time is a decent enough source? Anyway, aren't there Arabic News channels? Are the BBC and CNN the only News outlets in the World?

The truth of the matter is: A lot of people like to see religious nutters jumping up and down flaying their arms around their heads all while calling for the blood of infidels and saying Allah is Great. It simply makes for good watching for fat Americans after a long day of work. Kind of brings things into perspective on why their job as a janitor at the local 7-11 isn't all that bad. Kind of maintaining the engine of civilization itself

How much media attention was devoted to Ahmedinejad's mistranslated speech? How much to what it actually meant?

I said this exact same thing to Reza. He said yeah that CNN did translate he words wrong once but he is always calling for the destruction of Israel so it's a mute point. Not that it matters.

Never underestimate the role of the media in controlling what people think.

Hey I agree. That's why I only watch the Daily Show

 

[S.A.M.]

What's that got to do with movies in Holland ?
They should not bring them to Holland.

They might have stayed home if it is was safer to, if they weren't being bombed for no reason. Ironic, that their bombers are teaching them about tolerance.

The number of Afghan asylum applications in industrialized countries continues to rise. Europe received some 100,000 Afghan asylum-seekers during the past five years. Most Afghans applied for asylum in Germany (30%), the Netherlands (25%) and the United Kingdom (13%)

 

[Michael]

Look, I've pissed people off when I said the Bible is a bunch of outdated fairytales. A Baptist I know refuses to talk about anything religious ever since I said the Earth was a hell of a lot older than 6 thousands years. Probably when some of you suggest Scientology is a money making scam it pisses devout Good Scientologists right off. Actually everyone makes fun of Scientology. South Park did that one where Chief quit. Yet we don't have to be in fear of our very lives over the parody. Lots of people say the Old Testament is full of violence and supports violence - actually, it is and does. So what? We don't have to leave to another country after saying as much.

That's the main difference.

There is a much larger number of Muslims who are either willing to kill, think killing can be justified or are happy to stand by while killing takes place - all in an attempt to appease this neurotic sky-daddy. It's just something we don't see much in other religious - at least now that the other pea in the pod, Xianity, had it's fill of blood lust.

Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

Look, I've pissed people off when I said the Bible is a bunch of outdated fairytales. A Baptist I know refuses to talk about anything religious ever since I said the Earth was a hell of a lot older than 6 thousands years. Probably when some of you suggest Scientology is a money making scam it pisses devout Good Scientologists right off. Actually everyone makes fun of Scientology. South Park did that one where Chief quit. Yet we don't have to be in fear of our very lives over the parody. Lots of people say the Old Testament is full of violence and supports violence - actually, it is and does. So what? We don't have to leave to another country after saying as much.

That's the main difference.

There is a much larger number of Muslims who are either willing to kill, think killing can be justified or are happy to stand by while killing takes place - all in an attempt to appease this neurotic sky-daddy. It's just something we don't see much in other religious - at least now that the other pea in the pod, Xianity, had it's fill of blood lust.

Michael

Well if my people killed all your family and then you were forced to leave your destabilised, dismantled country and then on top of everything else, when the only thing that kept you going was perhaps your faith, the very people that had destroyed your family and country and perhaps prospects, preached to you that your faith was a violent thing responsible for all your troubles, you might be excused for punching the daylights out of a couple of those sanctimonious asses with their heads up their collective arses.

 

[Michael]

Yeah, the Dutch - war criminals in the ME. . . . . what between smoking pot

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, the Dutch - war criminals in the ME. . . . . what between smoking pot

Nah just part of the Nato group thats responsible for this:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=77726

You guys are so clueless, aren't ya?

Then, it should be the authoritative figures within Islam that take the initiative to stop these fundamentalists from acting out their violence. It is your responsibility to show THEM, not US that Islam is a peaceful religion.
.

Duh, they are Muslims

The one thing they do not do is respect any authority.

Haven't you met enough Muslims to figure it out by now?

 

[Michael]

Oh come one SAM.

Either people have the right to criticize Islam and the Qur'an or they do not. In The Netherlands they do - done. Now, if people don't like it, then refute the criticism point for point. It's really that simple. I don't see what the argument is? We both agree that the guy has the right to make the movie, we both agree that you have the right to refute each of his points.

Done,

Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

Apparently in the Netherlands they are also very good at demonising the people they are killing. Not much anyone can do about it.

 

[iceaura]

They might have stayed home if it is was safer to, if they weren't being bombed for no reason. Ironic, that their bombers are teaching them about tolerance.

So again - relevance to movies in Holland ?

Well if my people killed all your family and then you were forced to leave your destabilised, dismantled country and then on top of everything else, when the only thing that kept you going was perhaps your faith, the very people that had destroyed your family and country and perhaps prospects, preached to you that your faith was a violent thing responsible for all your troubles, you might be excused for punching the daylights out of a couple of those sanctimonious asses with their heads up their collective arses.

I wouldn't be taking refuge in your country, if it wasn't a refuge.

Obviously these refugees have taken refuge in the wrong place entirely, if they have to make death threats against local home movie directors to be easy in their minds. And something should be done about finding them a better place to live - someplace where the Quran is treated with the requisite deference.

 

[S.A.M.]

So again - relevance to movies in Holland ?

I wouldn't be taking refuge in your country, if it wasn't a refuge.

Obviously these refugees have taken refuge in the wrong place entirely, if they have to make death threats against local home movie directors to be easy in their minds. And something should be done about finding them a better place to live - someplace where the Quran is treated with the requisite deference.

Absolutely. They have a right not to be persecuted for their beliefs, after having suffered a war for seven years. Or longer, if you start counting from 1979

 

[vincent]

Apparently in the Netherlands they are also very good at demonising the people they are killing. Not much anyone can do about it.

Have you ever been to holland or like me to amsterdam, the dutch are incredibly friendly & open & very straight talking on all subjects they have no inibitions,they are very tolerant people, there country also has many immigrants, in the many times i have been there they all get on fine, the problems started when van goghs nephew was killed in a very brutal fashion by muslim fanatics, all because he dared to make a film about the way muslim women are treated, and he exercised his democtatic right to voice his opinion in film, holland has total freedoms, then we have a fanatic or fanatics hyped up my iran slaughtering him, this behaviour maybe excepted in pakistan or iran in holland it is not, if muslims born in democratic states can not handle democracy in all its forms they are all free to leave at any time to go back to the wonderful countries of pakistan & iran & have many happy a hour explaining to there religous police there why there hair is to long there clothes to colourful, or why they dont have a beard.

Van goph was a dutch icon, you dont go around slaying family members in such a barbaric fashion of a national hero.
I live in thailand i am a guest in thailand, i respect there culture & all there laws, if i lived in pakistan i would do the same, so why on earth do you have a problem with muslims respecting our culture when they choose to live in our countries.

 

[vincent]

Absolutely. They have a right not to be persecuted for their beliefs, after having suffered a war for seven years. Or longer, if you start counting from 1979

For someone who claims to be a scientist you really do have tunnel vision, democracy is about freedom to counter a persons belief, there ideas, where would science be today if nobody countered a belief or a silly idea of another scientist, you really talk like a communist, follow the party line, dont criticise just obey.
A true scientist is open minded on any issue, your mind is closed to only your own beliefs & ideas.

"persecuted"
In what way are muslims persecuted in the west?

Well in the uk

They get

free housing

free health care

free benefits $110 dollars a week for doing nothing but sit in a mosque all day if they choose to do so

some even have had cars given to them

childs benefit

free schooling



"persecuted"

do you know the meaning of this word?



Could you inform me of one muslim country that gives at least 2 of the above to there nationals?


If you are going to rant & rave in a forum at least have leg to stand on with your facts.

 

[(Q)]

Sometimes there are things designed specifically to get people angry. And unfortunately, they succeed.
The thing is, just as you are right that those violent should be more diplomatic, the people causing the anger should also show more respect.

No, you are wrong, they do not have to show respect. Muslims have to show restraint from violence. That is the bottom line.