Iran trys to get holland to ban dutch mp's film about the "violence provoking koran"

[Repo Man]

If you think a hate movie targeting all Muslims a reasonable way to educate/entertain people, you are even more unhinged.

Not having seen the film in question, I have no opinion of it. Have you seen it?
Is this a hate film? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i74ZnwEuEMg Yusuf Al Khattab is a vile person, but I don't wish him dead, nor do I seek to silence him. The answer to his hateful ideas is to expose them for what they are.

 

[S.A.M.]

Not having seen the film in question, I have no opinion of it. Have you seen it?
Is this a hate film? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i74ZnwEuEMg Yusuf Al Khattab is a vile person, but I don't wish him dead, nor do I seek to silence him. The answer to his hateful ideas is to expose them for what they are.

I don't need to see the film. I know Wilders. Would you need to see a Nazi film about Jews before you decided if it was anti-Semitic?

Btw, are any Nazi films ever screened anywhere?

http://al-amana.net/home/2008/01/29/eu-us-voice-concern-over-dutch-film-insulting-quran/

 

[(Q)]

I don't need to see the film.

Translation: It is forbidden for me to see the film, hence I will comment on it's content based primarily on my cults beliefs coupled with unsubstantiated innuendo and hyperbole.

 

[S.A.M.]

Translation: It is forbidden for me to see the film, hence I will comment on it's content based primarily on my cults beliefs coupled with unsubstantiated innuendo and hyperbole.

Translation: I would not read a book on evolution written by an avowed biblical creationist.

 

[(Q)]

Translation: I would not read a book on evolution written by an avowed biblical creationist.

Oh, but you did, and you whole-heartedly take it as the truth; The Quran.

 

[S.A.M.]

Oh, but you did, and you whole-heartedly take it as the truth; The Quran.

Have you read what it says about evolution?

Besides, I would not bother to hear paens on freedom of expression from a man who tried to get the Quran banned in a country that has banned Mein Kampf

 

[iceaura]

Besides, I would not bother to hear paens on freedom of expression from a man who tried to get the Quran banned in a country that has banned Mein Kampf

Yeah, people who try to get books banned - even books that call for killing atheists, stoning various ordinary people, etc - are not often trustworthy sources of "freedom of expression" thinking.

Cartoons either, of course.

It's going to be interesting to see if a country can formulate a general rule that bans cartoons of Muhammed without banning the Quran itself. My guess is that special exemptions for threats, hatred, etc, would be necessary for the Quran.

Have you read what it says about evolution?

I have read what many dozens of experts and believers tell me it says about evolution. The religious leader of the Rochester, MN, Islamic community, for example, wants to be allowed to open a charter school that teaches children according to the precepts of the Quran - in particular, omitting evolutionary theory from the science curriculum. He has argued, in the past, that forcing "Muslim children" to learn about such things violates Islamic precepts.

 

[Repo Man]

Yeah, people who try to get books banned - even books that call for killing atheists, stoning various ordinary people, etc - are not often trustworthy sources of "freedom of expression" thinking.

Cartoons either, of course.

It's going to be interesting to see if a country can formulate a general rule that bans cartoons of Muhammed without banning the Quran itself. My guess is that special exemptions for threats, hatred, etc, would be necessary for the Quran.

It will be like the right wingers here attempting to ban burning the US flag. Of course, they don't want to arrest members of the local VFW chapter ceremonially burning worn out flags. So they'd have to try and tread the fine line of banning flag burning based on the mental state and perceived intent of whoever is burning it. A ludicrous proposition, but one that never fails to get the rabble roused.

 

[Norsefire]

I agree that Iran has taken extreme actions, and recognize and enjoy freedom of expression, but there is a difference between expression and flat-out disrespect.

 

[Repo Man]

I agree that Iran has taken extreme actions, and recognize and enjoy freedom of expression, but there is a difference between expression and flat-out disrespect.

You are free to disrespect those who believe in other religions, or none at all. The desire to kill those who disrespect your religion isn't compatible with modern civilization.

 

[Kadark]

stoning various ordinary people, etc - are not often trustworthy sources of "freedom of expression" thinking.

You really should read the Qur'an before making these types of comments. "Stoning to death", "death by stoning", or any similar phrase is not mentioned once in the Qur'an, regardless of the crime.

 

[Repo Man]

I have read what many dozens of experts and believers tell me it says about evolution. The religious leader of the Rochester, MN, Islamic community, for example, wants to be allowed to open a charter school that teaches children according to the precepts of the Quran - in particular, omitting evolutionary theory from the science curriculum. He has argued, in the past, that forcing "Muslim children" to learn about such things violates Islamic precepts.

It is an interesting contradiction. Dogmatists are always unshakably certain their side is correct, but are always equally certain that if their flock are allowed to hear the other side of an issue, they will inevitably be led astray; the only safe course is rigidly enforced ignorance.

 

[S.A.M.]

I hear they are building a creationist park in the UK to complement the Creationist museum in the US. Clearly these countries are clueless about science.

 

[Repo Man]

I hear they are building a creationist park in the UK to complement the Creationist museum in the US. Clearly these countries are clueless about science.

A very large portion of the populace here in the US certainly are. It's a shame ignorance isn't painful.

 

[Norsefire]

You are free to disrespect those who believe in other religions, or none at all. The desire to kill those who disrespect your religion isn't compatible with modern civilization.

No. You might not believe them or like them, but mutual respect is needed to maintain a moderate society.

The Dutch don't have to believe or like Islam, but they also shouldn't just mock Muslims. Although Iran has taken extreme action, they are still responding.

 

[Repo Man]

No. You might not believe them or like them, but mutual respect is needed to maintain a moderate society.

The Dutch don't have to believe or like Islam, but they also shouldn't just mock Muslims. Although Iran has taken extreme action, they are still responding.

You, or anyone else in the world, are free to believe whatever you like. But you are not allowed to put your nonsense off limits to mockery or derision. You are free to believe that the moon is made of green cheese, or that the Earth is flat. And others are free to mock you for believing in such nonsense. That you hold nonsense to be sacred does not put it off limits to criticism.

 

[Norsefire]

You, or anyone else in the world, are free to believe whatever you like. But you are not allowed to put your nonsense off limits to mockery or derision. You are free to believe that the moon is made of green cheese, or that the Earth is flat. And others are free to mock you for believing in such nonsense. That you hold nonsense to be sacred does not put it off limits to criticism.

Yes, criticism but criticism is still different than ignorant disrespect.

 

[(Q)]

No. You might not believe them or like them, but mutual respect is needed to maintain a moderate society.

The Dutch don't have to believe or like Islam, but they also shouldn't just mock Muslims. Although Iran has taken extreme action, they are still responding.

You are free to respond as well. Make your own movies. Mock the Dutch all you want. They won't care one iota. They'll just laugh.

Extreme action from Muslims only proves their point.

 

[draqon]

mod...please edit the title of this thread, correcting it to "tries" ...I just can't take that mistake

 

[iceaura]

I hear they are building a creationist park in the UK to complement the Creationist museum in the US. Clearly these countries are clueless about science.

The fundie monotheistic citizens of the US are, in fact, disproportionately clueless about some fields of science.

That seems to be true of fundie monotheists elsewhere, as well.

But we have carefully maintained our ability to make fun of the US variety, draw cartoons, show disrespect, etc.

And we can also complain, criticise in pungent terms, and so forth.

We have entire movies devoted to that, books of parody, compendiums of derogatory analysis, and so forth.

Now, about the special privileges desired for Islamic fundies and their holy tome: the reasoning, again ?

Yes, criticism but criticism is still different than ignorant disrespect.

How about informed disrespect ?