Iran trys to get holland to ban dutch mp's film about the "violence provoking koran"

[vincent]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7248629.stm


Last Updated: Saturday, 16 February 2008, 15:48 GMT
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Iranians urge Dutch to ban film
By Elettra Neysmith
BBC News

Geert Wilders
The Iranians want Geert Wilders' film banned
The Iranian government has intervened to try to stop the screening of a film in the Netherlands about the Koran.

The Iranians say that the film, by the Dutch member of parliament Geert Wilders, is offensive.

The Iranian justice minister, Gholam Hussein Elham, wrote to his Dutch counterpart, Ernst Hirsch Ballin, calling for a ban.

Mr Hussein Elham said freedom of speech should not be used as a cover for attacking moral and religious values.

'Freedom of expression'

Mr Wilders says his film will show the Muslim holy book is an inspiration for murder.

But the Iranian justice minister says it is an unnecessary attack on what Muslims regard as the holiest of things.

He said the motivation behind the film was satanic and urged the Dutch government to stop its screening.

Mr Wilders has already been advised that he may have to leave the country for his own safety.

But the government has so far refused to intervene, saying the issue is one of freedom of expression.

In 2004, the Dutch film director, Theo van Gogh, was killed by a Muslim extremist in an Amsterdam street after bringing out the film Submission.

It dealt with the issue of abused Muslim women and included scenes of nearly naked women with Koranic texts engraved on their bodies.



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After the cartoon & teddy bear farces we are about to enter the mother of all film farces, Geert Wilders a extremist in my view or redneck, & muslim hater, & believe it or not i am not a fan of his, exremists are people who cant change there mind, they have tunnel vision, geert has this problem i dont, i agree he does have a right to show this film, the passion of christ was banned in some countries like pakistan, i hope to god the UK or the US does not ban it, muslims need to stop wearing there religon on there sleeves, as denmark repinted the cartoons this week, there was no muslim outcry or riots, that is the way forward, when they stop being emotional about religon, they might just realise it is just that religon a belief true or false, not a thing worth dying or killing for.

I have no doubt if this film is shown without being banned in the west it will result in cinema's being attacked or even burned down

The dutch goverment is telling there own mp to get out of the country for his own safety, a supposed democratic free speech country is telling there own mp for speaking his mind he is no longer safe in the country he lives in.

I've never had the good fortune to read the koran, im usually to busy counting sheep, however from what i gather the word jihaad appears quite a bit, & from what i gather it is used by modern fanatics as justication on any matter, that dare criticise islam.


Well geert where will you go, brazil? cuba? disney world?
My guess is being the arrogant guy you are, & the belief you are indestructable you will stay in holland, R.I.P geert, this film will go down as your epitaph.

 

[vincent]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7204452.stm


The Dutch prime minister has spoken of fears the film could be offensive and "lead to reactions that endanger public order, security and the economy".

One Iranian politician has warned of repercussions from the Muslim world.

********************
It seams the dutch PM is already pannicking, i think he might leave the country too, the iranians are warning of repercussions throughout the muslim world, i really dont think anyone is ready for another worldwide demo's of muslims against the west, the cartoon one did most of us in.

I think the dutch PM should move to iran, he seems to share there views on free speach.

 

[sandy]

I read a story that says he hates Islam, not Muslims:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/17/netherlands.islam?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews

:shrug:

 

[vincent]

I read a story that says he hates Islam, not Muslims:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/17/netherlands.islam?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews

:shrug:

The Dutch government is planning emergency evacuation of its nationals and diplomats from the Middle East should the Wilders film be shown. It is alarmed about the impact on Dutch business. 'Our Prime Minister is a big coward. The government is weak,' says Wilders. 'They hate my guts and I don't like them either.'

**********************

From your link Sandy, iagree with geert his goverment is weak, all though i dont like him, i truly believe he is a redneck, i firmly believe the film will do good it will build up the tolerance level of muslims, to accept criticism, in order for any religon to be healthy it needs to be open to criticism, as proven with salman rushdie & van goghs nephew talk on islam is like a open wound to many of them.

Already this week this has been proven with the new reprint of the cartoons in denmark, if you ignore islam with criticism it only harms islam.
If you keep knocking the foundations away that islam is untouchable & anyone who dares speaks against should face a jihaad, then they will start to get thick skin like other faiths, & stop being so bloody emotional over there religon, emotion is what causes murder & riots, if you dull the emotion you stop the murders & riots.

The dutch government is being PC, they dont look at the big picture, neither does the uk gov or the US one who both banned the cartoons, by doing so they actually harmed islam, the demo militants in the uk think they won, they gained more power.

Alot of writers & journalists, understand that way forward is to confront the issue & not sweep it under the carpet like politicians do, my guess is many muslims actually respect denmark more now than they ever did before, for being strong.

PC is what is keeping the fanatics going, giving them strength, if our politians were more direct there would never have been a 9-11.

 

[sandy]

I think the peaceful Muslims should show themselves en masse and denounce all terrorism. I think they should denounce all the violence in the Koran. I think if they became the majority, no one would have any problems with Muslims.

 

[Kadark]

I think if they became the majority, no one would have any problems with Muslims.

I think if Muslims didn't coincidentally live on top of the world's largest oil reserves, no one would have any problems with them.

 

[sandy]

I think if they didn't "distort the Koran" and stop terrorizing the world, we would have much more respect for them.

 

[Kadark]

I think if they didn't "distort the Koran" and stop terrorizing the world, we would have much more respect for them.

You think wrong.

 

[Repo Man]

Islam and Christianity both are just superstitious nonsense. People are free to believe what they choose, but if you believe in nonsense, you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences. I think it is summed up best by this H.L. Mencken quote:

The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge. Did Darrow, in the course of his dreadful bombardment of Bryan, drop a few shells, incidentally, into measurably cleaner camps? Then let the garrisons of those camps look to their defenses. They are free to shoot back. But they can't disarm their enemy.
-- H L Mencken, "Aftermath" (coverage of the Scopes Trial) The Baltimore Evening Sun, (September 14, 1925)

But this is what we are up against:

Syed Bilal
Former 17-year-old student of Dr. Younus Shaikh; the latter was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation

Only out of respect, because he was our teacher, did we not beat him to death on the spot.
-- Syed Bilal, relating his alleged response to Dr. Shaikh's teaching, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

Abdul Wahid Qasmi
Secretary general of the Finality of the Prophet, a group well known for pursuing blasphemers in Pakistan

For Dr. Shaikh's own protection, we sought his arrest. Otherwise, he might have been killed in the streets.
-- Abdul Wahid Qasmi, endorsing the capital charges against Dr. Younus Shaikh, who was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

Even if someone is only half-conscious when speaking against the Prophet, he must die. In Dr. Shaikh's case, his relatives have come to see us, saying the man is sorry and that he repents. But to be sorry now is not enough. Even if a man is sorry, he must die.
-- Abdul Wahid Qasmi, managing to sound amiable in endorsing the capital charges against Dr. Younus Shaikh, who was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, lets have more hate films. Thats the way to use freedom, to spread hatred against groups of people.

 

[vincent]

Islam and Christianity both are just superstitious nonsense. People are free to believe what they choose, but if you believe in nonsense, you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences.
But this is what we are up against:

Syed Bilal
Former 17-year-old student of Dr. Younus Shaikh; the latter was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation

Only out of respect, because he was our teacher, did we not beat him to death on the spot.
-- Syed Bilal, relating his alleged response to Dr. Shaikh's teaching, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

Abdul Wahid Qasmi
Secretary general of the Finality of the Prophet, a group well known for pursuing blasphemers in Pakistan

For Dr. Shaikh's own protection, we sought his arrest. Otherwise, he might have been killed in the streets.
-- Abdul Wahid Qasmi, endorsing the capital charges against Dr. Younus Shaikh, who was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

Even if someone is only half-conscious when speaking against the Prophet, he must die. In Dr. Shaikh's case, his relatives have come to see us, saying the man is sorry and that he repents. But to be sorry now is not enough. Even if a man is sorry, he must die.
-- Abdul Wahid Qasmi, managing to sound amiable in endorsing the capital charges against Dr. Younus Shaikh, who was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

Your main reference is a islamic one, yet you mention christian in the same breath, i mean last time the christians were killing blasphemers was during the witch killing days of 200 years ago, yet in muslim countries they still doing it today, there is no comparison unless you want to compare the chritian faith of centuries ago to islam today, then your complaint should be why has islam remained the same for thousands of years, the reason is in your quote all criticism against islam leaves to jihaad against that person, a religon can not develop or change without criticism.

thats why it is so important the media in all its forms continues to undermine the aura surrounding islam, iran is scared why?
Simple without that aura or golden halo iran is out of business so is bin lid, they need us not to criticise islam, thus they will continue to have obedient masses who never question there religon or beliefs, thast why it is illegal to leave islam in muslim countries, the more we undermine the more rights they want the more freedoms to choose there religon.

 

[vincent]

Yeah, lets have more hate films. Thats the way to use freedom, to spread hatred against groups of people.

Its called giving people a thick skin to deal with life, muslims are so easy to get emotinal over a word or words, is a word or words worth dying for or killing for?
I could go into any church or temple tommorow & spend all day calling buddha or god obscene names the reality is nothing will be done, sure the police may move me on, but the people praying will ignore me, yet if i did the same in a mosque about mohammed, what would there response be?

Muslims need to be conditioned to deal with criticism, at the moment any criticism sets off a tinderbox of emotions worldwide, and that is childish & stupid.
At least our free speach is now doing what politians refuse to do.
Was not the passion of christ a hate film against jews, i dont recall jews going on the rampage worldwide or are you saying the jews are more adult & responsible in dealing with criticism?????

films are art, peoples opinions, or fantasy, or the truth, either way it is up to the cinema goer to make up his own mind not you or any one else trying to censor movies, censorship is a long road, where & when do you stop?

 

[S.A.M.]

Its called giving people a thick skin to deal with life, muslims are so easy to get emotinal over a word or words, is a word or words worth dying for or killing for?
I could go into any church or temple tommorow & spend all day calling buddha or god obscene names the reality is nothing will be done, sure the police may move me on, but the people praying will ignore me, yet if i did the same in a mosque about mohammed, what would there response be?

Muslims need to be conditioned to deal with criticism, at the moment any criticism sets off a tinderbox of emotions worldwide, and that is childish & stupid.
At least our free speach is now doing what politians refuse to do.
Was not the passion of christ a hate film against jews, i dont recall jews going on the rampage worldwide or are you saying the jews are more adult & responsible in dealing with criticism?????

films are art, peoples opinions, or fantasy, or the truth, either way it is up to the cinema goer to make up his own mind not you or any one else trying to censor movies, censorship is a long road, where & when do you stop?

You're right, it worked so well with the Jews during WWII.

The Eternal Jew:
The Film of a 2000-Year Rat Migration

 

[Repo Man]

My complaint is with dogmatic nonsense. True Believers ™ in anything are troublemaking fanatics, who cannot allow themselves to doubt for a moment that they are right, and their opponents are wrong.

 

[S.A.M.]

My complaint is with dogmatic nonsense. True Believers ™ in anything are troublemaking fanatics, who cannot allow themselves to doubt for a moment that they are right, and their opponents are wrong.

Yeah, nothing like an education about the philosophy of some people by an "objective" group

The Eternal Jew is the first film that not only gives a full picture of Jewry, but provides a broad treatment of the life and effects of this parasitic race using genuine material taken from real life. It also shows why healthy peoples in every age have responded to the Jews with disgust and loathing, often enough expressing their feelings though deeds.

Just like rats, the Jews 2000 years ago moved from the Middle East to Egypt, at that time a flourishing land. Even then they had all the criminal traits they display today, even then they were the enemies of hard-working, creative peoples. In large hordes they migrated from there to the "Promised Land," flooded the entire Mediterranean region, broke into Spain, France, and Southern Germany, then followed the German colonists as they moved into the countries of the East. Along they way they remained eternal parasites, haggling and cheating. Poland above all became the enormous reservoir from which Jewry sent its agents to every leading nation of Europe and the world.

The self-portrait Jewry offered the world was disgusting from the beginning. All that is overshadowed by the powerful examples in this new and most valuable film, The Eternal Jew. This film with its persuasive power must be shown everywhere where anti-Semitism is still questioned. No one will fail to shudder at the sneaking servility and dirty bartering of the Jews when they start out, at the perfidy, insidiousness and vulgarity of their methods, at the brutality and all-devouring hatred they exhibit when they reach their goal and control finance.

The most revolting scenes show Jewish slaughtering methods. These customs, which cast a particularly vivid spotlight on the so-called Jewish religion, are so terrible that it is hard to watch the film as the grinning Jewish butchers carry out their work. It is illuminating to see how stubbornly Jewry holds to its method of slaughter and with which casuistry it defends it against the horror of the civilized world. Rarely will people feel more horror than which watching the desperate and horrible death struggle of the slaughtered animals. Long before the seizure of power, the NSDAP fought against Jewish slaughter. National Socialist representatives in parliament repeatedly introduced legislation to abolish this form of animal torture through a ban on Jewish slaughter. Such proposals were always rejected, since the entire Jewish and Jewish-influenced press ran long articles against them and the so-called German parties refused to support National Socialism in its battle against this evil.

Not only in this regard, but in other areas too we are reminded with a shudder of what once was reality in Germany: the power of the Jews in the economy, finance, culture, theater, film, publishing, press, radio, education and politics. All these Jewish leaders of the Weimar era had their home or their origin in the filthy ghettos of the East.

One has a deep sense of salvation after seeing this film. We have broken their power over us. We are the initiators of the fight against world Jewry, which now directs its hate, its brutal greed and destructive will toward us. We must win this battle for ourselves, for Europe, for the world. This film will be a valuable tool in that struggle.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ewig.htm

 

[vincent]

You're right, it worked so well with the Jews during WWII.

The Eternal Jew:
The Film of a 2000-Year Rat Migration

What were setting up concentration camps & gassing muslims?

your comparison is a knee jerk muslim one, that has no basis in reality, the mere fact the danes reprinted the cartoons this week with totally no reprisals should tell you that this process is working, as a supposed scientist wanabee any lab rat would say hey its working, there is no rioting no burning of embassies no flag burning no posters in the uk saying bomb europe, this time no response, is that not a good thing????????????

Does that not mean muslims are starting to develop a thicker skin to criticism, is that not how you stop violence to take emotions out of it, emotions are what we kill for in religon.

are you a scientist?

Any fool can see these attacks against islam by newspapers the movies, is starting to mature islam into this century?
& yet you have a problem with that why?
do you believe islam should remain the same forever, where it is illegal or dangerous to criticise islam, & illegal to change your religon, is that progress to you????

 

[vincent]

My complaint is with dogmatic nonsense. True Believers ™ in anything are troublemaking fanatics, who cannot allow themselves to doubt for a moment that they are right, and their opponents are wrong.

What freedom does she possess the right to show her eyelashes, her appearance merely shows her oppression, if god wanted her so covered would she have not been born that way, we are born naked so are animals, i dont recall a clothes policy by god for humans or animals.
I see this poster i see oppression nothing else, and if you ask any sane person they will tell you the same.


If god did not want us to speak why were we born with mouths & vocal cords, it seems he believed in freedoms of speach.

 

[S.A.M.]

What were setting up concentration camps & gassing muslims?

your comparison is a knee jerk muslim one, that has no basis in reality, the mere fact the danes reprinted the cartoons this week with totally no reprisals should tell you that this process is working, as a supposed scientist wanabee any lab rat would say hey its working, there is no rioting no burning of embassies no flag burning no posters in the uk saying bomb europe, this time no response, is that not a good thing????????????

Does that not mean muslims are starting to develop a thicker skin to criticism, is that not how you stop violence to take emotions out of it, emotions are what we kill for in religon.

are you a scientist?

Any fool can see these attacks against islam by newspapers the movies, is starting to mature islam into this century?
& yet you have a problem with that why?
do you believe islam should remain the same forever, where it is illegal or dangerous to criticise islam, & illegal to change your religon, is that progress to you????

What we need now is a solution.

As a result of the victory of the National Socialist revolution Danes, the Jewish Question Islamic terror has become a problem for those who never before thought about solving the Jewish Question Islamic terror, who never fought to solve it. Everyone has seen that the current situation is intolerable. Allowing free development and equality for the Jews Muslims has led to an "unfree" situation of exploited competition, and to a handing over of important positions within the German people to those of a foreign race.

The result is that anyone who thinks about this question looks for a solution. Everyone has a proposal on his desk, which gets a more or less favorable reaction in discussions. That was to be expected.

But the solution to so important a problem is not as easy as is often supposed.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/gercke.htm

 

[S.A.M.]

What freedom does she possess the right to show her eyelashes, her appearance merely shows her oppression, if god wanted her so covered would she have not been born that way, we are born naked so are animals, i dont recall a clothes policy by god for humans or animals.
I see this poster i see oppression nothing else, and if you ask any sane person they will tell you the same.


If god did not want us to speak why were we born with mouths & vocal cords, it seems he believed in freedoms of speach.

Absolutely. Its all their problem, they need to figure it out and change.

The Jewish Muslim problem is a migrating problem that has moved over the centuries from one European region to another. One can speak of a certain degree of saturation with the Jewish Muslim population in individual regions. If this degree of saturation is reached or exceeded, the affected non-Jewish Muslim peoples always take the same defensive measures. They attempt to reduce Jewish Muslim influence, to hinder Jewish Muslim corruption of their cultural and business life, or to reverse it if it has already occurred. Often, the first step is a clear realization that theJews Muslim are a foreign element. Those countries not simultaneously affected by the problem tend to misunderstand these defensive measures, and as far as it is in their political interests, or to the extent that they are under Jewish Muslim influence, speak of "barbarism." When the emigrating Jewish Muslim masses show up by them, the whole course of events often repeats itself. Similar defensive measures appear in the second country, while in the first country the fighting spirit against the Jews Muslim has calmed down — and thus the misunderstandings continue.

No one who understands the situation will be able to deny that the cause of these defensive measures lies primarily in the Jewish Muslim people itself. Even with the greatest degree of impartiality, one will conclude that one is dealing with a group of people that is on average highly unpleasant. That may not stop one from looking at the question clearly.

 

[vincent]

What we need now is a solution.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/gercke.htm

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/comment/305


Mary not virgin, BBC documentary claims
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Charlene Sweeney


A BBC documentary to be screened this Christmas will question the beliefs of billions of Christians by suggesting that Mary was not a virgin when she conceived Jesus.

The Virgin Mary, which is to be aired on Dec 22, investigates three explanations, other than the immaculate conception, for Mary's pregnancy.


Firstly it looks at the possibility that she slept with Joseph while she was engaged to be married to him, secondly that she was raped by a Roman soldier and thirdly that she fell pregnant to an unidentified man before marrying Joseph.

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The catholic faith is knocked down almost daily, we dont care me i laugh about it all, even though i am a catholic, our many gay priests etc & there affairs with there choir boys, i take god seriously not men in frocks in churches, all people are open to criticise god or to say he does not exist, thats there opinion, these are words nothing more.

Criticism is good for the catholic church it makes it stronger, sure the preists are doing this religon no good, the reason we had the spanish inquisition is because we did not criticise the church then, the reason we had witch burning is because we did not question the church, questions & criticisms are good they lead to progress, being silent does no one any good.