Iran Bans Music

[Emil]

I understand that English is not your first language so it is easy to misunderstand. But are you saying that you think an option do to abortions in a hotel room is a good thing?????????

Maybe comma means something else for you.Is a sequence comma separated.
Or you confuse "optin" with "option"?

Sex before marriage was not officially banned but could not get a hotel room if you were not married.

 

[Bert]

Just another in the long line of insane beliefs held by believers. Mozart has turned in his grave.

"Monday August 2, 2010.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said today that music is "not compatible" with the values of the Islamic republic, and should not be practised or taught in the country."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/iran-supreme-leader-music-islam

WHAT???

HOW THE HELL will all these people survive with no music??? :bugeye:

 

[Light Travelling]

Maybe comma means something else for you.Is a sequence comma separated.
Or you confuse "optin" with "option"?

Sex before marriage was not officially banned but could not get a hotel room if you were not married.

Ok are you for real or is this candid camera? no I do not know the difference between optin and option.

Why do you want to get a hotel room when not married ? (other than the obvious).

Is it easier to get an abortion with a beard? :shrug:

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I wish the King of Sweden would ban music; Basshunter, Abba, Roxette, Ace of Base, I mean c'mon.........

Hey, I never heard of Basshunter but I love the other three. Also Drain STH, a Swedish all-female goth band starring Toni Iommi's wife.

Sure, as long as it doesn't conflict with "Islamic values." Intelligent Design must be at the top of their curriculum.

* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * *

Q, your discourse on SciForums frequently drops below the level of "discussion" and becomes pure "trolling."

Please get a grip and clean up your act. You're making a fool of yourself. I don't know whom you think you're entertaining with this tiresome repetition.

 

[Emil]

Is it easier to get an abortion with a beard? :shrug:

I never thought to associate abortion with beard.
But if you say ...:scratchin:

 

[Bells]

Just another in the long line of insane beliefs held by believers. Mozart has turned in his grave.

"Monday August 2, 2010.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said today that music is "not compatible" with the values of the Islamic republic, and should not be practised or taught in the country."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/iran-supreme-leader-music-islam

Wow. I mean WOW!

This would have been an amazing topic of discussion. Unfortunately, you completely misrepresented the actual truth of the matter:

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Monday that young people would be better to spend their time learning science and in "healthy recreations," such as sports, instead of studying music.

(Source)

And then we have this little tid bit into the mind of the Khamenie:

Houshang Asadi, a former cellmate of Khamenei before the Islamic Revolution said: "He hated the music from the beginning."

"There were times I sang a song by Banan (a popular vocalist) for him and he told me to avoid music and instead pray to God", said Asadi, who shared a cell with Khamenei for four months in Moshtarak prison in Tehran in 1976 and stayed friend with him for several years after the revolution. "The only music he liked was revolutionary and religious anthems," said Asadi.

(Source)

So the man isn't a fan of music.

But the real reason they are cracking down on music in public venues and concerts?

Iran has rarely given permission to concerts, as it fears that the opposition might use it as an opportunity to express itself, said Mohammad Reza Shajarian, Iran's most prolific and popular classical vocalist.

"They are afraid of my concerts because of those moments before the concert is begun, when the whole hall is in silence and darkness when someone suddenly shouts 'death to dictator' and everybody accompanies and they are unable to identify that person," Shajarian said.


(Source)

And then we also have this:

"Remember, everything in Iran is political. They [check] through every verse in lyrics, and say, 'eliminate that, eliminate that,'" Fallahi said.

(Source)

But then.. Reality:

But, Fallahi said, if anything, even more music is coming out of Iran today.

"Some people produce music in the basement and underground, and they send it out through the internet. What can they do about internet?"

That's why Fallahi doesn't believe Khamenei's statement will frighten young people away from music.

He said the comments will likely hamper music production for a little while. But, Fallahi said, musicians in Iran will ultimately find a way to do what they love.

"I spoke to someone in Iran, a musician. I cannot tell you his name, but he said he wasn't too much worried about that," Fallahi said.

 

[GeoffP]

Note: he's not worried...but won't give his name.

Driving music underground may well create more music, but doesn't erase the ban. I'll probably backfire, but it illustrates that the fellow is - as everyone knows - a bit of a nut.

When music is outlawed, only outlaws will have music. And they will look like this:

 

[(Q)]

Wow. I mean WOW!

This would have been an amazing topic of discussion. Unfortunately, you completely misrepresented the actual truth of the matter:

So sorry you have to fabricate lies to support your emotional outburst, but could you point out exactly where I misrepresented the actual truth of the matter? What was it I said exactly?

 

[(Q)]

Yes Q, the Communism(Socialism)

Bullshit. I lived in the CCCP and heard music all the time. Show me where in the Communist Manifesto where music is a bad thing?

 

[Bells]

but could you point out exactly where I misrepresented the actual truth of the matter?

By trying to make it into something religious, when it is far from it.

Just another in the long line of insane beliefs held by believers. Mozart has turned in his grave.

You completely misrepresented the actual article in the OP.

 

[(Q)]

By trying to make it into something religious, when it is far from it.

Oh, I see, so when we see something that states the obvious like "Islamic" we are to believe it is anything but religious in context?

You completely misrepresented the actual article in the OP.

Yes, you've already made that claim but failed in pointing out exactly what it was I said that misrepresented the article.

So, are you lying, then?

 

[Bells]

Oh, I see, so when we see something that states the obvious like "Islamic" we are to believe it is anything but religious in context?



Yes, you've already made that claim but failed in pointing out exactly what it was I said that misrepresented the article.

So, are you lying, then?

Firstly, you posted it in the Religious forum, when it is really a political issue. You then harped on about 'beliefs' and made sure you quoted one line that would make it seem as if it was actually a religious issue. When it is not. It is actually a political issue in Iran.

Could you have been more blatantly obvious?

 

[(Q)]

Firstly, you posted it in the Religious forum, when it is really a political issue.

Ah, so when it says "Islamic" it is political, not religious? LOL!

You then harped on about 'beliefs' and made sure you quoted one line that would make it seem as if it was actually a religious issue.

Of course, nothing "Islamic" is of a religious issue, it's all political. Of course, we now wonder what to call the belief system of Muslims? Isn't it 'Islam'?

When it is not. It is actually a political issue in Iran.

Could you have been more blatantly obvious?

Could you have been more blatantly wrong? I don't think so.

Of course, if I ask you if you pulled that one out of your anus, will I get a warning or banned?

 

[kmguru]

De-evolution of a great civilization!

 

[GeoffP]

Firstly, you posted it in the Religious forum, when it is really a political issue. You then harped on about 'beliefs' and made sure you quoted one line that would make it seem as if it was actually a religious issue. When it is not. It is actually a political issue in Iran.

Actually, Q has a point here: some conservative interpretations of Islam prohibit music other than vocal. Many Islamic nations have no such restrictions, but there is a religious connection to it. I don't think one could make the claim that Khamenei's ban on music applies only to opposition gatherings and the like, unless the OP article is misquoted:

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said today that music is "not compatible" with the values of the Islamic republic, and should not be practised or taught in the country.

That does conflict with the later statement that music is "halal"; not my contradiction, so I don't have to explain it. I suggest the Guardian tighten up a bit. I don't think one can ascribe the ban only to public gatherings and dissent, either:

After his election in 2005, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad cracked down on music. His ministry of culture and Islamic guidance has refused permission for the distribution of thousands of albums. Since last year's disputed elections the authorities have given even fewer permits for public concerts, fearing they could be used by the opposition.

You represented it only as "public venues and concerts" and missed the above, or ignored it.

 

[GeoffP]

Actually, Bells, from one of your sources:

In the 30 years since Iran became an Islamic republic, it has prohibited musicians
from keeping instruments in their homes, and banned women from singing.

The assault on music is clearly not limited to that in public venues.

 

[Michael]

Conservative Christians used to ban music as well.
Conservative Christians were also against images of Christ (read about Byzantine Iconoclasm).
Conservative Christians used to wear head and face veils.
Conservative Christians gave women little legal freedom.
Conservative Christians killed homosexuals.
Conservative Christians outlawed all other religion (see Justinian's closure of the last Greek Academies - just prior to the Dark Ages).
Conservative Christians thought the Bible was the infallible "living" word of God.
Conservative Christians were anti-Jewish.
Conservative Christians were against non-Christian performance and non Christian art.

ALL of the worse things about conservative Christianity seems to have been purposely built into Islam. Islam probably arose from a clash between those who supported the Trinity and those who didn't. Muslims seem to be the descendants of those who didn't believe Jesus was a facet of God. This tells us that Islam is probably a branch of Conservative, not Progressive or Gnostic, Christianity. I think they were probably influenced by Byzantine Iconoclasm in the 700s as well - which is yet another form of intolerant Christianity (early Muslim's drew pictures of Mohammad - later Muslims didn't and it somehow became "tradition" that isn't not supposed to happen - Allah all of a sudden didn't like Iconic imagery.... which is just bullocks that ONLY a conservative Christian/Muslim could come up with).


The Ayatollah of Iran is simply overwhelmingly infected with 2000 years of Christian intolerance memes. If anything, feel pity for the people of Iran, they're somewhat infected as well. And the only redeeming factor in Christianity, that of forgiveness, is the one think Islam was purpose built to oppose. So, feel sorry for these guys, Islam is a heavy weight to bare. You don't get to pick your parents ...and very rarely ever their religion.

 

[Bells]

Actually, Bells, from one of your sources:



The assault on music is clearly not limited to that in public venues.

And yet, there is more music coming out of Iran now than before. Which tells you what?

Music can be construed as a political weapon. As the links I have provided state quite clearly, this ban and those before it are political. Yet, you choose to discount the experts in the matter, who know what the situation is like in Iran because of why?

 

[GeoffP]

And yet, there is more music coming out of Iran now than before. Which tells you what?

That the ban hasn't been instituted yet, or isn't working? What does it matter to the poor schmo who gets arrested "fer pluckin' them strings when you done been tole not ter!" He's still fucked either way.

Music can be construed as a political weapon. As the links I have provided state quite clearly, this ban and those before it are political.

Mmmaybe. But you'll note he made an exception for religious and martial music. That could swing either way. And the nature of his job is religio-political. It's an open field at the moment on cause, but it sounds like both.

Let's review selections from the OP article:

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said today that music is "not compatible" with the values of the Islamic republic, and should not be practised or taught in the country.

In some of the most extreme comments by a senior regime figure since the 1979 revolution, Khamenei said: "Although music is halal, promoting and teaching it is not compatible with the highest values of the sacred regime of the Islamic Republic."

"Values" usually subs in for some kind of religious perspective, unless religious assholes in Iran are drastically different from those over here. "Sacred" is a pop fly, as they say.

Khamenei's comments came in response to a request for a ruling by a 21-year-old follower of his, who was thinking of starting music lessons, but wanted to know if they were acceptable according to Islam, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.

:shrug:

"There were times I sang a song by Banan (a popular vocalist) for him and he told me to avoid music and instead pray to God", said Asadi, who shared a cell with Khamenei for four months in Moshtarak prison in Tehran in 1976 and stayed friend with him for several years after the revolution. "The only music he liked was revolutionary and religious anthems," said Asadi.

Sounds at least as much religious as revolutionary - they do mention "revolutionary" in there, but it sounds religious.

Yet, you choose to discount the experts in the matter, who know what the situation is like in Iran because of why?

Sorry: which "experts" pronounced it wholly political? And why are you peddling an appeal to authority for them? And how does one separate the religious from the political in Iran anyway? This guy thinks he's fucking Mo. It seems clear he's taking this issue up on an interpretation of Islam. Whether it's the right interpretation is a completely different issue, obviously.

Anyway: major point - I was illustrating that it wasn't public venues only, which wasn't accurately represented in your post, I thought.