Interesting Observations

Michael said:
So Baha'i are Muslim? They accept their is one God and they also accept the Mohammed was one of his Prophets...

Can Muslims be monotheistic and accept Mohammed was the Last Prophet yet also accept the fact that the Qur'an has been altered over the years and hence have new better “perfect” books like the Bahá'u'lláh's Kitáb-i-Aqdas and The Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Bahá?

They do meet your definition after all….
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If they accept God and the Prophet, they are Muslims. Even Shias have issues about the Quran, some of them claim parts of it are missing, etc.

Anyway, in terms of faith, anyone who recites the shahadah and means it is a Muslim.

One of these days, I have to educate myself about the Bahai.
 
So then, that just leaves - what defines a religious (generic) holiday and what defines a Islamic Holiday?
 
Michael said:
And in general? .... say: non-Islamic religous holidays?
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Those are culturally defined but since Muslims like to include religion in many parts of their lives, they may have religious elements as well. But they won't be connected to the Quran. e.g. in Saudi Arabia, they have a Murabta during Hajj because Mecca is pretty close and people can perform umrah easily so having some time off during that time is useful.

This may also be the case in other Islamic countries nearby. But its not the case for Muslims in other places.
 
I have to say: seeing people praise Allah as they cut themselves, it's pretty hard to say its secular???
 
Michael said:
I have to say: seeing people praise Allah as they cut themselves, it's pretty hard to say its secular???
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Muslims praise Allah even when they are cursing, it is a linguistic disease they suffer from.

I'd like you to tell me what you think of this article.
 
samcdkey said:
Muslims praise Allah even when they are cursing, it is a linguistic disease they suffer from.

I'd like you to tell me what you think of this article.
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Kind of reminded me a little of Christian sermons I would have heard as a kid.

He is certainly making some sense - but he is not all that objective. Of course he sees things though an Islamic lens. There is a preconceived notion that society can heal by returning to classical agreed upon Islamic interpretations and fostering development through tried-and-true Islamic tradition. I feel he has a sense of loss at the state of Islam.

There is also comparison occurring.

Did he ever stop to think that maybe it would be best for Islamic societies if they simply let Islam slip away into the pages of history? If they focus their energies on getting economies working, fixing their environments creating fare and representative secular governments and dealing with psychological issues cognitively? In the beginning he suggests that poor ethics was correlated with secularism and good with religious mindedness. Well, that’s just not the case. Ethics are what we make of them – as a society. I may personally think it is ethically wrong to take more than one wife and that its perfectly great to have sex before marriage ;) ….lol…:p seriously, we each have our own moral compass within an ever changing society. It will change as we change. That’s just evolution.

So I’d say he has some good points and I can see where he is coming from. I’m not saying a more secular view is going to work - it may not work either – these are age old questions. We’ll have to wait and see….

Michael
 
Michael said:
It is a difficult situation as humans have such a violent nature which is reflected in many of the religions that they have created. Even in Greco-Roman Myths there is a God of War but that is tempered with a God of Fertility or Love – a Goddess that enjoys a sense of humor and enjoys a good joke - including at the God of War’s expense :)

However, in the Middle Eastern monotheistic religions we find a single One God – one that gets jealous, surprised, angry and is homicidal to the point of murdering all of humanity - simply for the crime of acting on their own free accord. This God is the God that inspired the inquisitions, It supported Slavery, It enjoys a man to have 4 wives (so long as he doesn't like pork) and It iwas the nspiration for both Xian and Muslims to brutally kill and conquer most of the known world (the Xians way way way more so than the Muslims) in Its name.

It is History

Instead of relying on a well thought-out enlightened approach to human suffering – say something like empathetic meditation (empathy via neural plasticity); this God instead relies on the promise of eternal hell-fire and tricks such as a tax on non-believers to coerce belief. Indeed, these beliefs (especially if taught at a young age) will modulate the brain. They have a DIRECT effect on neural conductivity. If one lives their whole life in fear of a God the sits in judgment – expect that person's brain to be completely rewired towards this fear. It is so.

As a Great Jedi Master once said:
"Fear leads to Anger.
Anger leads to Hate.
Hate leads to suffering."
;)


Look at the rise of Christianity – witness the Dark Ages.
It’s demise heralds the Renaissance and the rise of secularism: The Age of Enlightenment.

Can one find another main stream religion that has even close to the violent history as Christianity and Islam?
:confused:
Michael
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Given that there are 2 100 million christians and 1 300 million muslims in the world, how many of those are violent as you indicate?
You seem to establish that buddhists are more peaceful by dint of theory rather than reality

details the pride and culture of Thai people along with the principle religion of Buddhism and how these are tied in with this most Noble of Fighting
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http://www.muaythaionline.org/features/born2fightvideo.html


You can even find sites that are just as prone to sensationalism as the OP

Not unlike other religions Buddhism also has “skeletons in its’ closet” which it carefully conceals in the Western world. There are dark aspects in this “philosophy of compassion, non-violence and tolerance”. Zen-Buddhism for example influenced the most sophisticated warrior philosophy of the East: the extremely brutal and suicidal Samurai Ethics. In Tibetan Buddhism one can find believes in spirits and demons, in secret sexual practices, in war gods, in occultism. Lamas search to influence their retinue and the world with all sorts of magical rituals. In Sri Lanka Buddhist violence and Buddhist racism are the order of the day. In Burma and in Kashmir Buddhist armies are fighting. And yet the Dalai Lama has another face that peeks out from behind the mask of goodness, charity and kindness, which gives one pause to think more deeply about the shadow sides of this “man of peace.” Why is Buddhist fundamentalism so dangerous - because it shows a tendency to religious Fascism! It’s not well known that the brain trust of the SS in Nazi Germany was extremely interested in Vedic- and Buddhist- teachings, in the Lamaist culture, and in Zen-Meditation with the goal to construct with elements of these eastern believes its own Nazi-Religion. (See: www.trimondi.de/H-B-K/inhalt.hi.en.htm ) Buddhism – if it will become congruent with western values like democracy, human rights, equality of gender etc. must be “reinvented”. The condition therefore is an open, critical and honest debate.
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http://www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/EN/links.htm

It seems that rather than referring to actual buddhism, as it is practiced in the world, you provide an idealistic view of it as if it is the norm - similarly, in your presentation of monotheism and particularly islam, you present and eccentric practice as if it is the norm
 
lightgigantic,


I posted on the other post.

However, you see
a) I am not a Buddhist.
b) Of course the Japanese are Buddhist and Shinto.
c) Of course Tibetans still hold to their own beliefs combined with Buddhism.


If you are suggesting that Christianity and Islam is a mixture of some of their own belief along with that of many others. Then yes, I agree. That is true. Then perhaps it is best to look at each belief within the belief?


Lightgigantic do you suppose that Hindu who have heard of Christ, but rejected the whole notion of Christianity (they are Hindu after all) go to heaven? If not what do you suppose will happen to them after they die? Replace Hindu with "Atheist" – what is your answer?

What are your thoughts on Mohammed? Do you suppose he was the Last true Prophet of God and the Qur’an replaces the Bible?

In your opinion: Are both the Qur’an and the Bible true? If not which is true and which is not true?


Michael

PS:
I think you will find that History shows Christianity was the bloodiest religion in the history of humanity. Islam was not all that far behind. Both felt compelled to kill and/or convert any people who held differing belief.
 
that depends on where this alleged "religion" is geographically situated. culture impacts expression
 
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