Interesting Observations

[Michael]

"The 6-year-old boy screamed and shook his head to avoid the razor blade. But his father held him firmly as Hajj Khodor parted the boy's black hair and sliced his forehead three times with the blade. Ali Madani's cries became more violent as blood gushed from the wound, covering his small, terrified face. His father and a few other men, waving daggers, broke into a religious chant, recalling how the 7th-century Shiite Muslim saint, Imam Hussein, was decapitated, his head placed on a lance."


As a Muslim, this must just be one in a long line of embarrassments.. .. .. .. cutting open your own kids scalp as a way to get blessing from this One God. … ????

Truly an embarrassment for the moderate believer?

 

[leopold]

People have strange customs.

Anyone here heard of Thai Pusam? Its an Indian festival in Malaysia.

i used to have a book called "secret museum of mankind" and in it described something similar.
it was a african custom where a person would be swung around by hooks embedded just above the shoulderblades.
another was a rite of passage into manhood where a boy was coated with glass and metallic shards and beaten untill he passed out. really grotesque stuff.

 

[lightgigantic]

"The 6-year-old boy screamed and shook his head to avoid the razor blade. But his father held him firmly as Hajj Khodor parted the boy's black hair and sliced his forehead three times with the blade. Ali Madani's cries became more violent as blood gushed from the wound, covering his small, terrified face. His father and a few other men, waving daggers, broke into a religious chant, recalling how the 7th-century Shiite Muslim saint, Imam Hussein, was decapitated, his head placed on a lance."


As a Muslim, this must just be one in a long line of embarrassments.. .. .. .. cutting open your own kids scalp as a way to get blessing from this One God. … ????

Truly an embarrassment for the moderate believer?

what are your views on scarification and genital piercing?

 

[LiveInFaith]

PS: You yourself have told me you found nothing of the sort of novel and insightful enlightenment in your own studies, well you seem pretty peaceful. Maybe that's why. It seems many other people have been able to look into these monotheisms and find plenty of novel insight and use it to justify their rape and killing of about half the people on the planet.

I think it was me who said no novel in the qur'an compared to other ol'books before. Basically, as a whole set, they send similar messages. Those who use it to justify rape and killing just need more educations.

EX:
Did you see the peace I posted about the nutty Taliban commander.
“"Allah on 480 occasions in the Holy Koran extols Muslims to wage jihad. We only fulfil God's orders. Only jihad can bring peace to the world. We will continue our struggle until foreign troops are thrown out. Then we will attack them in the US and Britain until they either accept Islam or agree to pay jazia (a tax in Islam for non-Muslims living in an Islamic state)."

Did he stop at defending his land? No. HE found something enlightening in that there good ole' book! The eventual attack and destruction of other people!

Then he exceeds limits.
There is no teaching to attack others for nothing to defend, and it is also forbidden to do destruction on the earth. He haven't finished reading (qur'an means 'readings').

I personally think a “perfect” religious book would be impossible to interpret towards violence. You know: Simply state on page one. Never ever under any circumstance ever commit a violent act ever. If you should be attacked then you will see paradise a lot quicker – don’t do violence. Never ever ever kill or harm another human.

Gee ... in all of 1 minute and I could have prevented all the violence justfied in the name of God. :bugeye:

Only Gandhi can do that with ahimsa. But under the greediness of energy hunger power holders, this is just a 'self destruction' teachings, a 'passive suicide'. No suicide is good.

Regarding the OP:
It is a culture, not religious practice. In different places, they do ceremony different way. It just happened to be those people practising that culture were muslims. No teaching about that kind of practice was taught in Islam.

 

[S.A.M.]

i used to have a book called "secret museum of mankind" and in it described something similar.
it was a african custom where a person would be swung around by hooks embedded just above the shoulderblades.
another was a rite of passage into manhood where a boy was coated with glass and metallic shards and beaten untill he passed out. really grotesque stuff.

It was a rite of passage in an African tribe. I remember doing a paper on it in my psychology class. Young men who reached maturity had spikes inserted through their muscles and were strung up for long periods of time. They had to go through the process to be considered grown ups.

 

[S.A.M.]

"The 6-year-old boy screamed and shook his head to avoid the razor blade. But his father held him firmly as Hajj Khodor parted the boy's black hair and sliced his forehead three times with the blade. Ali Madani's cries became more violent as blood gushed from the wound, covering his small, terrified face. His father and a few other men, waving daggers, broke into a religious chant, recalling how the 7th-century Shiite Muslim saint, Imam Hussein, was decapitated, his head placed on a lance."


As a Muslim, this must just be one in a long line of embarrassments.. .. .. .. cutting open your own kids scalp as a way to get blessing from this One God. … ????

Truly an embarrassment for the moderate believer?

Like the hijab, its a cultural practice and has no basis in the religion.

Shiite Muslims do it as a way of commemorating the death of Hussein:

This day is well-known because of mourning for the martyrdom of Husayn ibn Ali, the grandson of Prophet Muhammad at the Battle of Karbala in the year 61 AH (AD 680).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Ashura

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I saw this interesting tribal custom among the primitive peoples of the ME in celebration to "Ashura" - the tenth day

This kind of reminded me of another blood-ritual practiced by people of another primitive monotheistic religion – in this one Pilipinas reenact the crucifixion of their Man-God by having nails driven through their hands and feet

This stuff is sick!

 

[Michael]

what are your views on scarification and genital piercing?

What? A Prince Albert?!?!

An adult can do as they wish. Why would I care? I don't even care that adults in Lebanon were slicing their flesh and given their blood to their God.

I do think it is a relfection of some sort on their religion.

A Prince Albert as part of a religious festival is as bad as circumcision. It kind of says something about a religion that feels it’s God needs a peace of flesh cut off the end of a penis to make it happy.

Yeah, oh so enlightened people….:bugeye:

MII

 

[lightgigantic]

I do think it is a relfection of some sort on their religion.



MII

Do you have a habit of judging a genre by its worst stereotype?

 

[spidergoat]

It was a rite of passage in an African tribe. I remember doing a paper on it in my psychology class. Young men who reached maturity had spikes inserted through their muscles and were strung up for long periods of time. They had to go through the process to be considered grown ups.

That's the Sioux sun ceremony.

 

[Michael]

I think it was me who said no novel in the qur'an compared to other ol'books before. Basically, as a whole set, they send similar messages.

Then why yet another Prophet and yet another book if neither offer something new? It just simply doesn’t make sense to me.

There is one God – OK yeah knew that.
Mohammed is his last Prophet – OK so what?

Oh, wait – you mean because you’re the last Prophet you get extra women and get to become the military leader .. now it’s becoming clear. Most military leaders in the ancient ME claimed to have divine guidance. Alexander was worshipped and revered for over a millennia there.

Then he exceeds limits.
There is no teaching to attack others for nothing to defend, and it is also forbidden to do destruction on the earth. He haven't finished reading (qur'an means 'readings').

Maybe he’s pulling a Bush and going for pre-emption? That’s a “defence” in a manner. It all depends how one looks at it. So he’d probably say it is you who don’t know what you are talking about. You don’t know true Islam. I don’t know. But certainly he read the Qur’an and he found in it inspiration for war. There’s no denying that. He even quotes the number of passages that inspired him to kill people.

This is what happens when you “give an inch” as they say -they take a mile.

Lets look at it this way. The country of Iran was conquered (or as my Persian buddy puts it – culturally raped). Why did Muslims have a mandate to conquer the whole of the country? Persians may have had agreements with Arabs and may have received tribute – but in 5000 years they had never conquered the whole of the Arabian peninsula. Why the sudden mandate just post-Islam to conquer Iran? It was justified in the name of Islam and it obviously did happen.

So a good question is: Where in the Quran is a mandate to conquer and kill Persians?

What of Greece? Sicily? Egypt? North Africa? Spain? India?


What about Constantinople? Was that justified?

Is it that all these people for all these centuries who read the Qur’an and conquered other people – that ALL got it wrong?

Well, what does THAT say?

Only Gandhi can do that with ahimsa. But under the greediness of energy hunger power holders, this is just a 'self destruction' teachings, a 'passive suicide'. No suicide is good.

That’s one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is as a means to end violence and ones own actions will not perpetuate violence in the future.

Let us compare: Bush is in line with the notion that greedy hungry powers need to be crushed and killed like vermin while Gandhi thought peaceful passive resistance was the way – don’t even harm animals.

Now, with this in mind: Who do you think is the complete dimwitted imbecile and who the well thought-out philosopher!?!?

Like the hijab, its a cultural practice and has no basis in the religion.

I agree.

Much like the Jesus Archetype, the Hijab, classical Mosque architecture, etc… - I'm sure self-flagellation is a direct consequence of modeling much of Islam on the Greco-Roman national cult Christianity.


Like I said, it was an interesting observation.

Lets sum it up like this: The apple doesn’t fall far from the monotheistic-tree.


Michael

 

[redarmy11]

As seen in 'A Man Called Horse'.

 

[Michael]

Do you have a habit of judging a genre by its worst stereotype?

Actually I said reflection

 

[redarmy11]

I hate it when people post intervening messages without warning. It's a bit rude.

 

[redarmy11]

Especially when they then do it again.

 

[spidergoat]

Such ceremonies are not limited to monotheism. South American tribes have various tests of pain tolerance. Practices of ecstatic rituals are almost universal, and it is well known that pain increases specific memories.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then why yet another Prophet and yet another book if neither offer something new? It just simply doesn’t make sense to me.

There is one God – OK yeah knew that.
Mohammed is his last Prophet – OK so what?

Oh, wait – you mean because you’re the last Prophet you get extra women and get to become the military leader .. now it’s becoming clear. Most military leaders in the ancient ME claimed to have divine guidance. Alexander was worshipped and revered for over a millennia there.

Maybe he’s pulling a Bush and going for pre-emption? That’s a “defence” in a manner. It all depends how one looks at it. So he’d probably say it is you who don’t know what you are talking about. You don’t know true Islam. I don’t know. But certainly he read the Qur’an and he found in it inspiration for war. There’s no denying that. He even quotes the number of passages that inspired him to kill people.

This is what happens when you “give an inch” as they say -they take a mile.

Lets look at it this way. The country of Iran was conquered (or as my Persian buddy puts it – culturally raped). Why did Muslims have a mandate to conquer the whole of the country? Persians may have had agreements with Arabs and may have received tribute – but in 5000 years they had never conquered the whole of the Arabian peninsula. Why the sudden mandate just post-Islam to conquer Iran? It was justified in the name of Islam and it obviously did happen.

So a good question is: Where in the Quran is a mandate to conquer and kill Persians?

What of Greece? Sicily? Egypt? North Africa? Spain? India?


What about Constantinople? Was that justified?

Is it that all these people for all these centuries who read the Qur’an and conquered other people – that ALL got it wrong?

Well, what does THAT say?

That’s one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is as a means to end violence and ones own actions will not perpetuate violence in the future.

Let us compare: Bush is in line with the notion that greedy hungry powers need to be crushed and killed like vermin while Gandhi thought peaceful passive resistance was the way – don’t even harm animals.

Now, with this in mind: Who do you think is the complete dimwitted imbecile and who the well thought-out philosopher!?!?



I agree.

Much like the Jesus Archetype, the Hijab, classical Mosque architecture, etc… - I'm sure self-flagellation is a direct consequence of modeling much of Islam on the Greco-Roman national cult Christianity.


Like I said, it was an interesting observation.

Lets sum it up like this: The apple doesn’t fall far from the monotheistic-tree.


Michael

Self flagellation is not a monotheistic ritual. It has been practised by ascetics in India for hundreds of years. There was even a particular tribe or group in which a man would wear bells on his feet and perform a sort of dance with accompanying music while flagellating himself.

Mourning ceremonies are also not a new invention. For all you know, it may be a leftover from some custom that was already prevalent in the people of the region (sorta like biting off frogs heads)

As for why the Arabs took over Persia? Why, because they became more civilised! a prominent sign of civilisation is dominating (or attempting to) other cultures, a la colonialism.

 

[lightgigantic]

Actually I said reflection

does that mean it is okay to pass judgment on the reflection?

Or is it the nature of reflections that they can bear no inherent significance in the body they appear in?

(like for instance if a parent is found accused of gross violence on their children is it okay to rule that the connections between parenthood and violence is inextricable?)

 

[zenbabelfish]

There are easier ways to get endorphin highs...

 

[Michael]

Lightgigantic,

One may reflect upon a reflection.

(that is where the word derives it's second meaning? No?)


Michael