Intelligent People 'Less Likely to Believe in God'

You realise that Steve Jones is referring to the UK in that article? UK, btw, is not in the US.

Still, I venture that the opposition you see to science education today, has never been stronger than this. Why do you suppose that is?

JDawg said:
How is trying to prevent creationism from getting in schools retarding the growth of science, Sam? That's obviously what you're saying, because that's the quote and link you provided. You think that getting creationism out of schools is bad for science? Bullshit. Creationism is junk, not science, and does not belong anywhere near a public school.



Bullshit, Sam. Revisionist history. Here's a link that shows the times Evolutionary Theory has either been on trial, been taken to court, or had legislation passed.

http://www.nwcreation.net/trials.html

Creationists (now IDers) have been fighting the advancement of science since this country was founded. And in reality, they've spent a hell of a long time fighting it throughout the history of the world. There were places and times where going against literal scripture would be cost you your life. How can you advance science when science inherently goes against scripture?

You can keep assuming that everyone who ever invented anything was religious, but the truth is you can't know, because saying you weren't was either a death sentence or career suicide back then. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet money that the greatest minds of antiquity were more likely to be autistic than they were to be religious.
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iceaura said:
I didn't. I'm pointing to an obvious and major factor you and your sources seem to have overlooked.

The people who are objecting to Darwin and finding themselves shocked by the prevalence of atheism among the scientific and other intellectual classes, are people who in years past would have had little contact with those classes.

If you attempt to educate the children of fundies, you will meet antagonism and resistance. That attempt is a modern, recent effort.
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Hmm, so its an uprising of lower less intellectual classes into education. Which 50 years ago were dominated by the athiest more intellectual classes and have now opened their doors to blacks women and church goers. Quite a shock for all those who were unaware that Christian scientists were not the haute classe 50 years ago.
 
SAM said:
You realise that Steve Jones is referring to the UK in that article? UK, btw, is not in the US.

Still, I venture that the opposition you see to science education today, has never been stronger than this. Why do you suppose that is?
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The opposition to education for the children of fundies has always been strong, in the UK and the US and Saudi Arabia and everywhere else there are fundies.

But it used to be expressed in curtailed education, and early joining of the work force.

One major difference now is that even the children of fundies need education. They are going to fancy universities to get vocational education in the intellectual vocations, that pay. And their parents are now being confronted with what that means.

That wasn't true in times past.
 
You realise that Steve Jones is referring to the UK in that article? UK, btw, is not in the US.
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He mentioned both, actually.

Still, I venture that the opposition you see to science education today, has never been stronger than this. Why do you suppose that is?
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How do you mean "stronger"? Because there is very little actual strength to the movements against science. They've lost every trial against evolution, and the only major blow dealt (aside from refusing to modify the education system to make it work for today's world and today's science) is the stem cell research funding ban.

If you're talking strength in numbers, I still don't agree. The main haters are the evangelicals, and they aren't a majority of any sort. They're just very loud, is all. It's an endtimes cult, so of course they're more radical than other sects, which is why we can hear them when they scream about stupid shit.

So I guess I'm not exactly sure what strength you're talking about, and what makes this strength stronger than the kind that used to get you killed for going against the clergy.
 
I think you underestimate the creationist movement. Still, I hope for your sake you are right.
 
S.A.M. said:
I think you underestimate the creationist movement. Still, I hope for your sake you are right.
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I think I estimate them just about where they belong. Look, religious crap like what they're spouting has never been able to stand up in court, even in times when you'd think we were all Bible-thumping monkeys. These people aren't even fundamentalists, they're something much worse that twisted the scripture to meet their ridiculous ideas of doom and gloom and the endtime. They're free to do whatever they want, but they will never be able to produce a case against evolution, or even equal time. It's just not going to happen.
 
Its the attitude that is amazing to me. When I was in Saudi Arabia, the older drivers used to go to the mosque in the evening for adult literacy classes. They had enthusiastic debates about what they had learned and entertained us with their antics. None of them had the idea that education will turn you atheist or science is evil and anti-religion. They want all their children to go out and study everything they can. They don't even have the concept of not educating girls. I come to the US and people are worried their children will get brainwashed in school. Its mind boggling.
 
SAM said:
Opposition to education in Saudi Arabia?

You know they have no objection to teaching evolution or stem cell research, right?
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The fundies in Saudi Arabia are not giving up. At least in the US we haven't had to kill our fundies outright.

And yes, they do oppose education - or what a Westerner would call "education", anyway. A non-fundie Westerner.
SAM said:
When I was in Saudi Arabia, the older drivers used to go to the mosque in the evening for adult literacy classes. They had enthusiastic debates about what they had learned and entertained us with their antics. None of them had the idea that education will turn you atheist or science is evil and anti-religion.
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As long as the fundies in the US were getting their education from the local parochial school and in accordance with their religion, they had no objections either.

It's when they had to get their kids ready for university, that the trouble started.
 
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S.A.M. said:
Its the attitude that is amazing to me. When I was in Saudi Arabia, the older drivers used to go to the mosque in the evening for adult literacy classes. They had enthusiastic debates about what they had learned and entertained us with their antics. None of them had the idea that education will turn you atheist or science is evil and anti-religion. They want all their children to go out and study everything they can. They don't even have the concept of not educating girls. I come to the US and people are worried their children will get brainwashed in school. Its mind boggling.
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That's because of religious indoctrination. I am a firm believer that there are far less religious people in this country than the numbers say, and that even a person who isn't an ardent believer--perhaps even a person who is only religious by name and not by devotion or even belief--will believe when they hear that the schools are putting poison in the heads of their children. It's started by idiotic zealots, usually officers of the church or mosque or temple, but these ridiculous beliefs are actually held and advanced by non-religious folk. It's disturbing.

The proof of this is in the fact that John McCain received 48% of the vote despite having a retarded abstinence-only candidate whose daughter got knocked up on his ticket
 
iceaura:

In what way do they oppose education? In your non-fundie western way?
 
S.A.M. said:
Opposition to education in Saudi Arabia? :roflmao:

You know they have no objection to teaching evolution or stem cell research, right? Talk about fundie ideas!

Saudis take lead on stem-cell cloning
http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2002-07-09-arab-stemcell.htm
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"Islamic law, which governs 1 billion Muslims worldwide, views life as beginning at 120 days after conception, so researchers working at the new center in Saudi Arabia are not faced with the same moral conundrum."

No wonder. Their religion happens to allow it. If it didn't, it would be outlawed in an instant.
 
spidergoat said:
"Islamic law, which governs 1 billion Muslims worldwide, views life as beginning at 120 days after conception, so researchers working at the new center in Saudi Arabia are not faced with the same moral conundrum."

No wonder. Their religion happens to allow it. If it didn't, it would be outlawed in an instant.
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There are fortunately many versions of Islamic law. :p
 
JDawg said:
That's because of religious indoctrination. I am a firm believer that there are far less religious people in this country than the numbers say, and that even a person who isn't an ardent believer--perhaps even a person who is only religious by name and not by devotion or even belief--will believe when they hear that the schools are putting poison in the heads of their children. It's started by idiotic zealots, usually officers of the church or mosque or temple, but these ridiculous beliefs are actually held and advanced by non-religious folk. It's disturbing.

The proof of this is in the fact that John McCain received 48% of the vote despite having a retarded abstinence-only candidate whose daughter got knocked up on his ticket
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I agree with the idea that people may not be religious despite their proclamations and even what they tell themselves.

I think there are teams out there. And these teams want life to be organized (or not) in certain ways. And they join those who will try to enforce (or allow) life to be the way it should be. From there there is a lot of parroting going on.

But then if these people are not really religious, perhaps this is skewing the IQ test results.
 
SkinWalker said:
I doubt your claim -no offense. It is possible that you are better educated than some college students, but very unlikely that you are better educated than most. What is your self-taught major or specialty. I'd be happy to test the claim. While I appreciate your belief and confidence in your own "education," I remain skeptical of its content and completeness.
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You can doubt & be skeptical all you want. It's not an incredible claim.
It was relevant to this discussion but I see no purpose in proving anything to you.
1111
 
If we are the most intelligent beings in the universe ,then I think there's not much to boast about.I tend to beleive in higher intelligence than mine and this is no problem for me.Having said that human beings have to first understand what intelligence really is before lumping themselves in categories.
 
What a lie? Einstein never believed in God, Einstein was a spinozist for your information and thats way too close to being an atheist, you should read his views on the bible....anyway, belief in God has pretty much to do with one's upbringing and culture...and many of the intelligent only believe in God because it is safer to do so (recall Pascal's wager). Anyway, I'm overtly atheist and will take the risk to go to hell...but if God is truly just, He'll reward an honest intellectual like me who simply didn't see enough evidence for His existence during my lifetime, neither did I succumb to dogmatism of the theists.
 
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