Intelligent Design

The argument from design breaks down over whether order must be imposed by a mind or whether it can be self-generated. As we observe in nature, order appears to arise from the intrinsic conditions of existence. There is no need for an exterior mind to impose this order. Order is an emergent and self-generative phenomenon. This is an empirical fact of our experience.
 
Last edited:
Xelasnave.1947 said:
I am trying to reach out and understand theists beliefs and although theists are a large group I ask if there are anyhere who believe that the concept of intelligent design is valid and if without it the God idea starts to have problems.

And lets not bring evolution into it as it is just a theory clearly unproven.
Click to expand...

Some theists indeed consider evolution unproven, false, impossible, the-rantings-of-psychotics... usually denying the postulate of Natural Selection, the argument for reproducing, mutation and passing on genes.

ID (Creationism) is argued from the other postulate, Diversity of Species. With intelligent design, there is no reason to have multiple forms of eyes, blood types, skeletal structures, nervous systems, the list goes on and on. Evolution explains diversity of species, Intelligent Design would be the exact opposite. There would only need to be a few designs for all life forms. That's not what is observed.
 
Yazata said:
Why does the universe (at least seemingly) behave in accordance with reason? If the impression that it does is correct (and science rests upon that assumption), then one might want to make an argument that whatever accounts for and explains the existence of the principles that seemingly govern the universe, is rational too in some sense.
Click to expand...
The universe came first, then reason emerged within it and as part of it.
The question would be, then, why reason behaves in accordance with the universe. And that is a question evolutionary biology may be able to illuminate.
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
I am trying to reach out and understand theists beliefs and although theists are a large group I ask if there are anyhere who believe that the concept of intelligent design is valid and if without it the God idea starts to have problems.
It seems very scientific given they dont seem to claim that God is the intelligent designer and have a variety of examples that clearly point to an intelligent designer as the only possible answer.
So if you support the idea of intelligent design could you please tell me more about this refreshing scientific concept☺
And lets not bring evolution into it as it is just a theory clearly unproven.
I certainly object to the notion my ansrstors were apes although looking at the photos I could see how folk could say such.
I have asked one theist here to comment on Intelligent design but so far no reply so maybe it is a scientific sacred concept not to be shared with those satanic devil worshipers we call atheists.
Please you best example of intelligent design and who the inteligent designer could be...please lets keep it scientific no references to God being the intelligent designer.
Alex
Click to expand...
Its not clear what you are asking for in regards to intelligent design or an absence of intelligent design. "Science" is all the processes involved and "design"is all about purposes, etc.
In short, its not clear what the connection is between "how" q's and "why" q's.
 
I can tell that the universe was intelligently designed because I am here.
Who else but an intelligent designer would have designed a universe with me?

all hubris aside:
The Tao was the Tao before time became time
Before existence was non existence
Before non existence was the void
Before the void was the Tao

The Tao is our understanding of the basis of existence
The Tao of which we can speak is not the eternal Tao
 
sculptor said:
I can tell that the universe was intelligently designed because I am here.
Who else but an intelligent designer would have designed a universe with me?
Click to expand...
If a universe is intelligently designed, then within this context all outcomes therein may be considered intelligent. But to define something as intelligent, it has to be contrasted with something that’s not, so without that other something, can you really define this universe as intelligent? Compared with with another universe, might it appear not to be so?
The Tao is our understanding of the basis of existence
The Tao of which we can speak is not the eternal Tao
Click to expand...
In other words the Tao is the bassis for our understanding of existence until its not. A philosophy built on a foundation of smoke.
 
Musika said:
It seems pretty obvious that if you have a universe that is not structured or developed in accordance to God, then you have a problematic definition of God.
Click to expand...
But try pointing that out to one of these overt Abrahamic theists - the normal response is to restructure the universe. Intelligently designed, it becomes, weird stuff like that.
 
iceaura said:
But try pointing that out to one of these overt Abrahamic theists - the normal response is to restructure the universe. Intelligently designed, it becomes, weird stuff like that.
Click to expand...
Abrahamic theists certainly have their issues, much like abrahamic atheists.
 
So how would someone persuade one of these ID desperations that their definition of God is what needs changing?
 
iceaura said:
So how would someone persuade one of these ID desperations that their definition of God is what needs changing?
Click to expand...
If there is a quick and easy means to dissuade the desperate from adhering to crippled means of thought, I'm sure we will hear about it on sciforums soon enough.
 
iceaura said:
But try pointing that out to one of these overt Abrahamic theists - the normal response is to restructure the universe. Intelligently designed, it becomes, weird stuff like that.
Click to expand...
Only in America - and possibly the Middle East. In Europe, saner versions of "theism" tend to prevail.
 
Musika said:
It seems pretty obvious that if you have a universe that is not structured or developed in accordance to God, then you have a problematic definition of God.
Click to expand...
It seems pretty obvious that if you have a universe that must be structured or developed in accordance to God then you have a definition of God that begs the question.
 
exchemist said:
Only in America - and possibly the Middle East.
Click to expand...
In America, Mexico, the Middle East, most of Africa, most of Central and South America, and the Abrahamic regions of SE Asia. There is, according to rumor, a pocket of Europe (not all of Europe) that is both theistic in the Abrahamic mode and willing to adjust their conception (the "definition" above) of their deity ("God") to create compatibility with modern scientific discovery and economic/ecological circumstance. Surveys tend to show otherwise - that the belief in the deity and the adjustment involved seem mutually exclusive when taking individuals one by one.
 
Sarkus said:
It seems pretty obvious that if you have a universe that must be structured or developed in accordance to God then you have a definition of God that begs the question.
Click to expand...
Or, alternatively, a description that fits the bill.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top