Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Enmos said:
So? You still have the freedom to choose.
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So, you're still not free.

How many people have made the choice to die for just a small taste of freedom in some small specific regard? That's not freedom.

I'm talking about complete freedom.
 
Let me ask you this. What is, in your opinion, the worst thing a human being can do?
 
Enmos said:
They were free to make that choice though, right? In absolute terms they were free.


Give an example.
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I'm talking about freedom in life, not in death. If they died trying to get it, then its safe to say they didn't have it.

Not an example, but a definition, free to be exactly who you are and who you want to be, do whatever you want to do, every desire met, every need fulfilled, at all times with no constraints, fear, or opposition, and unlimited resources. Hence the questions you thought were irrelevant.
 
Lori_7 said:
I'm talking about freedom in life, not in death. If they died trying to get it, then its safe to say they didn't have it.

Not an example, but a definition, free to be exactly who you are and who you want to be, do whatever you want to do, every desire met, every need fulfilled, at all times with no constraints, fear, or opposition, and unlimited resources. Hence the questions you thought were irrelevant.
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You are still not getting it.
Please answer the other post and we can move on. Or, alternatively, give an example of a situation in which someone is not free.


Edit:
Never mind the above.

Am I free to sin? Can I kill you if I want to? Would you try to stop me if you knew I was going to kill you?
Can I play loud music all night long if I want to? Even if that means that you cannot sleep because of it? Would you try to stop me?
You see, what you want is a fairytale.

One persons freedom can conflict with another persons freedom. In one of the cases above my right to freedom says I can play loud music all night long, but your right to freedom says that you don't have to lie awake all night because of it.

The solution is well-known though: law.
This is why I said that you are free to make your own choices, but there will always be consequences to whatever choice you make. This does NOT hamper freedom in any way. If you do not accept that that is what freedom is then freedom, the way you define it, does NOT exist.
 
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Enmos said:
Let me ask you this. What is, in your opinion, the worst thing a human being can do?
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I'm sorry, I didn't see this post. I don't know. I don't know that I'm qualified to answer this. If I had to take a guess I'd say rejecting or denying god.
 
Lori_7 said:
I'm sorry, I didn't see this post. I don't know. I don't know that I'm qualified to answer this. If I had to take a guess I'd say rejecting or denying god.
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You are qualified because I asked for your opinion..
Anyway, I said forget about that post. Did you see the new post? Your comments please.

By the way, you find rejecting or denying god worse than raping/killing someone?? Really?? I must be such scum in your eyes.. :rolleyes:
 
Enmos said:
You are still not getting it.
Please answer the other post and we can move on. Or, alternatively, give an example of a situation in which someone is not free.


Edit:
Never mind the above.

Am I free to sin? Can I kill you if I want to? Would you try to stop me if you knew I was going to kill you?
Can I play loud music all night long if I want to? Even if that means that you cannot sleep because of it? Would you try to stop me?
You see, what you want is a fairytale.

One persons freedom can conflict with another persons freedom. In one of the cases above my right to freedom says I can play loud music all night long, but your right to freedom says that you don't have to lie awake all night because of it.

The solution is well-known though: law.
This is why I said that you are free to make your own choices, but there will always be consequences to whatever choice you make. This does NOT hamper freedom in any way. If you do not accept that that is what freedom is then freedom, the way you define it, does NOT exist.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that this freedom I'm referring to is only achieved through restored communion, which in turn is achieved through redemption (abolition of sin). That way everyone would act in the best interest of everyone all the time and for the greater good. We would be as one, even in our individuality with no conflict.
 
Enmos said:
You are qualified because I asked for your opinion..
Anyway, I said forget about that post. Did you see the new post? Your comments please.

By the way, you find rejecting or denying god worse than raping/killing someone?? Really?? I must be such scum in your eyes.. :rolleyes:
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Stop being impatient and beligerent please. I'm on my phone here.

I'm not talking about a rejection of religion, but a rejection of god itself. It is this rejection that justifies acts contrary to the greater good including rape and murder.
 
Lori_7 said:
You're forgetting that this freedom I'm referring to is only achieved through restored communion, which in turn is achieved through redemption (abolition of sin). That way everyone would act in the best interest of everyone all the time and for the greater good. We would be as one, even in our individuality with no conflict.
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So we would be prevented from doing anything that would irritate another? Great freedom! :rolleyes:
 
Lori_7 said:
Stop being impatient and beligerent please. I'm on my phone here.

I'm not talking about a rejection of religion, but a rejection of god itself. It is this rejection that justifies acts contrary to the greater good including rape and murder.
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I reject God. I am an atheist. Is that really worse than killing a person?
 
Enmos said:
So we would be prevented from doing anything that would irritate another? Great freedom! :rolleyes:
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Not prevented. You would voluntarily and willfully act in accordance with the greater good. After all, why would you not want to?
 
Lori_7 said:
Not prevented. You would voluntarily and willfully act in accordance with the greater good. After all, why would you not want to?
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Yea, you do it voluntary. After you have been 'taken care of' of course..

Even then, how can you know what is in the best interest of everyone else? The only thing I can envision is a world full of mindless drones.
 
Enmos said:
Yea, you do it voluntary. After you have been 'taken care of' of course..

Even then, how can you know what is in the best interest of everyone else? The only thing I can envision is a world full of mindless drones.
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Communion. We would all be at one with each other and the universe and/or god. I think our instincts will be different.
 
Enmos said:
Ok then. I reject each and every aspect of God.

And if NOBODY even knows what god is how can anyone ever accept it? No rational person would.
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I beg to differ. Even though I can't define god, I am very aware of the fact that I am part of something much greater than I, and that there is a spiritual realm, and its interacted with me and affected me greatly.

Why is it that you are so vehemently turned off by the idea of and/or the word god?
 
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