Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

The basic idea is that it is excessive concern for survival that leads to warfare. It starts out innocently enough with wanting security from starvation, then the accumulation of wealth to ensure long-term survival, then protecting that wealth from those who want to steal it to ensure their own survival, then killing the people that steal, then cutting ourselves off from the natural world with walls and territories to prevent theft... ...which leads to our present state of nations and armies with terrible weapons.

I understand "excessive" is a subjective term, but when you start having enough that other people want to steal, maybe you should give it away instead.
 
spidergoat said:
...but when you start having enough that other people want to steal, maybe you should give it away instead.
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Interesting. People wanting to steal from another is a sign that that person has too much? Oooh, not THAT is a concept for the record books! ...LOL!

Got any more theories to further your train of thought?

Baron Max
 
Sure, some quotes from my favorite philosopher, U.G. Krishnamurti:

Society is interested in the status quo. It doesn't want to change. The only way it can maintain the status quo or the continuity is through the demand that everybody should fit into its structure, whereas every individual is unique. Nature is creating something unique all the time. It is not interested in a perfect man. It is not interested in a religious man. We have placed before man the goal or the ideal of a perfect man, a truly religious man. So anything you do to reach that goal of perfection is destroying the sensitivity of this body. It is creating violence here. It is not interested in that.

Whatever man experiences--self-awareness, self-consciousness--he has sown the seeds of his total destruction. All those religions have come out of that divisive consciousness in man. All the teachings of those teachers will inevitably destroy mankind. There is no point in reviving all those things and starting revivalistic movements. That is dead, finished. Anything that is born out of this division in your consciousness is destructive is violence. It is so because it is trying to protect not this living organism, not life, but the continuity of thought. And through that it can maintain the status quo of your culture or whatever you want to call it, the society. The problems are neurological. If you give a chance to the body it will handle all those problems, but if you try to solve them on a psychological level or on an ethical level you are not going to succeed.
 
Well, that seems quite heavy on idealism, but it seems that it has virtually no practical value at all. But even so, I'm not sure how that explains your original post ...which is what I asked for.

Or are you just trying to overwhelm me with so much bullshit that I'll quit asking you for clarification and/or explanations? That approach does, in fact, work quite well against my insatiable curiosity. :)

Baron Max
 
I'm saying that it isn't industrial society that is to blame for our situation, it's the individual and the disfunctional cultural institution of the ego that leads to a disfunctional society.
 
spidergoat said:
Whatever man experiences--self-awareness, self-consciousness--he has sown the seeds of his total destruction. All those religions have come out of that divisive consciousness in man. All the teachings of those teachers will inevitably destroy mankind. There is no point in reviving all those things and starting revivalistic movements. That is dead, finished. Anything that is born out of this division in your consciousness is destructive is violence. It is so because it is trying to protect not this living organism, not life, but the continuity of thought. And through that it can maintain the status quo of your culture or whatever you want to call it, the society. The problems are neurological. If you give a chance to the body it will handle all those problems, but if you try to solve them on a psychological level or on an ethical level you are not going to succeed.
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Solution: be unaware.

It's probably more a question of how to organize self-consciousness, rather than whether or not to outright reject it, no?
 
That's a good way to put it, but to a large extent, it isn't a matter of deliberate choice. Anything YOU do reinforces the thought process as the center of self-consciousness, and thus the separation between self and other.
 
Criminality and Abnormality.

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember -plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears]

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ]

The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed.


Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times.


What could be more criminal than this.
What could be more abnormal than this.


Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.




Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world.

Big Mystery.

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars.



Make things
Buy things
Sell things

This is not the purpose of life.

Destroy Shopping Culture.

No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.


sushil_yadav
 
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Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.



Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth.


sushil yadav
 
Consumerism leads to techonology which over time gives us the chance to get off this rock. Further, over time it also becomes far more efficient so you get more for less. It is a snowball effect. I don't think it can be stopped. I think it's happening because it's the nature of the beast. I see it as symptomatic of evolution's human experiment. You might be right, or we might find ourselves saved by that which you reject in the future. Either way though I seriously doubt this thing is turning around any time soon.. not until it starts to all fall down.
 
Think Positive.

Psychologists say -- Think Positive.
Politicians say – Think Positive.
Economists say – Think Positive.
Scientists say – Think Positive.
Everyone says – Think Positive.


Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up.
Think Positive.

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.
Think Positive.

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep.
Think Positive.

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds.
Think Positive.

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.
Think Positive.



Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality.


This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.


Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment.


sushil yadav
 
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Wes,
Consumerism leads to techonology which over time gives us the chance to get off this rock.
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But that consumerism and technology drive us to flee this rock, which I love dearly.

Further, over time it also becomes far more efficient so you get more for less.
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You know, with our present dependence on fossil fuels to produce grain, we're in for a collapse. That is, if you buy peak oil theory and we don't make a conversion to another energy source in the near future.

With our present technology, we are incredibly inefficient. The grainlands of America have been drained of fertility for generations from rigorous monoculture and erosion. The only reason we keep getting food out of them is by turning fossil fuel into nitrogen and fertilizing them with tons of nitrates every season.
 
sushil yadav said:
Think Positive.


Psychologists say -- Think Positive.
Politicians say – Think Positive.
Economists say – Think Positive.
Scientists say – Think Positive.
Everyone says – Think Positive.

me::damn right, and it reminded me on Uri Geller. and here seen this guy in action. he is a positiv-fascist. ypu HAVE to bepositivie, positive in his company. he is one pain in te arse that man.....the whole New Age circus is that isn't it. And as you insightfully show...meanwhil the Earth dies......we need postive and negativeand earthed. it is a continuum. not a fascistic opppression gainst a 'negative' for a 'positive'!





Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up.
Think Positive.

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.
Think Positive.

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep.
Think Positive.

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds.
Think Positive.

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.
Think Positive.





Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality.


This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.

me::ys....check he actual reality. a person NATURALLY feels negative and goes to the dotor. doctor mor often that not will diagnoses them with a biological illness he/she calls 'mental illness'. Thing is, tere is no scientific evidence for such diagnoses. Mental illness is a myth. Yes, people do manifest many bhaviours, some distresing, visionary, etc....but if it is NOT biological disease it is not. Calling it a disease doesn't make it so. Yet that is the reality for all of us. That is the straightjacket round us. That if we fall of the industrial fascist positive-trip they are waiting with toxic pills, and incarceration......there have been lobotomies too, andlets not forget brain destroying ECT!....S tis positife propagandais very much NOT harmless



Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment.

me::OH, yeah, they LOVE their 'meetings' and shiny folders and bumbh dont they??




sushil yadav
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Personally i am really interested in all of tis. I a understanding it like tis....tat its not so much thinking which is at fault, and thus must become a scapegoat. No, it is hen tinking becomes divided against itself. For example we can see thisdevelopmnt in the West in ancient Greece when Orphism came to be. ORphism reformed the classical DIonysiam religion of the Earth which was a last vestige of Goddess religion (do a google 'From Orphism to Gnosticism'). We see they are te first to actually set myth in stone thus transfixng what had before been left to open interpretation ala actual psychedelic ritual. They divide the psychology of the human by claiming the human is part 'Titan' meaning of the Earth nd tus gross/'bad' and trapped inside the body is the 'Divine spark/Dionysos' which is 'good'. The Orphic saying was 'soma sema' meaning 'the body a tomb'. They introduced the oriental concept of reincarnation and karma, and separated realiy int 'pure' and 'impure'----please read it it's very interesting.

So, w can see that myth--divisive myth can be imposed from without, andit BLAMES in the individual usually by a very insidious psychological tactic of divide and control. I.e, te prupose being, that if you are divided against yourSELF ten youe energy is all directed at that, whilst the powers that have created this diverse scenario are ignored for tey have diverted attention away from the ral cause of it all--the MYTH

in our time the myth is he space race. i have heard people here justify whats goin on cause it means we can 'escape this rock'.....well Earth is much much MORE than 'rock'. Earth is living organism which is invaluable.
 
There is an important point which the human-species needs to understand. People think they can save the Environment by doing something.

We can never save the environment by doing something.

It is overactivity that has destroyed environment in the first place.

Human-species is the only one out of millions of species that has indulged in overactivity on this planet [ And for that very reason the human species is going to exist on earth for the least amount of time]


And it is not Mild Overactivity – It is Excessive Overactivity – Exponential Overactivity.

We cannot save the environment by doing something.

We can only save it by doing less of what we have been doing - much less of what we have been doing.

If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%.


sushil yadav
 
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tat insight reminds me of something i noted a while back. I had read about a Native Amercian elder who was talking to the people.....He said he had seen how tings had gotten quicker and quicker and quicker, and that as time went on, te modern word was going to even get MORE quicker--rushin around etc. So he advised, the quicker everyting gets, the slower one must become....
 
Man and the Industrial Society

Industrial society does produce severe stress on people who are afraid of technology including priests and "C" class people who studied the arts. So, it is natual to have a backlash....just like we are now in the midst of an "Intelligent Design" - so that the cult leaders will reign supreme.

That is perhaps man's instinct - to be afraid of what he does not understand.

I could be wrong....
 
The Illogical logic of Man.

A few birds have got infected with bird-flu and Man has started killing millions of birds.
They say birds are a threat to humans.

Sometime ago there was Mad Cow disease and Man started killing hundreds of thousands of cows.
They said cows are a threat to humans.


Ever since Man came into existence - millions of humans with infectious diseases have transferred such diseases to millions of other people - and will continue to infect millions more in future.
Such people are a threat to rest of the people.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all infected people.

It is Man who has killed millions of people in Wars and other forms of Violence – and can kill millions more any time in future.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all people.


It is the human species which is the greatest threat to humans and all other life on this planet - In fact the human species is the only species which is a threat to all life on Earth.

Man has decimated all Animal and Plant species – polluted the Sky and Oceans - and poisioned every square inch of earth.

In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years.


Humans pose the greatest threat to other humans.
Humans pose the greatest threat to all other life on earth.


The so-called Rational and Civilized Man should follow the same logic here - and destroy the entire human race.


sushil yadav
 
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i agree apart from one VITAL difference.
it isn't 'HUMANS' who has/is caused the ecocide, and genocidal catastrophes but A human MINDSET not shared by all humans. Dan Russell calls it 'Industrial Fascism'--a fascism being imposed on the whole world. even rooting out tribes in the depths of Brazillian rainforests

This industrial fascism comes from a mindset which has cut off its relatonship with its own body, emotions, feelings and NAture. it is mechanical and souless, and is still marchin on like a rusty old robot out of control. 'rusty' bcause its limtations are becoming more and more revealed. Just hop more and more people wake up so as to finally pull its plug out for good!
 
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