Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

We all need to understand how harmful and destructive the consumer culture is.



Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.


Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.


Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.


sushil_yadav
 
This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.
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Assuming your theory is correct, we crossed the line when the first ploughshare was turned to sword...the mental work has been going on since the first man used the brain to make a neckless for the woman.

Since we can not stop working...what is the point?

Prakruti naiba muchyate...:D
 
Hi sushil yadav,
I agree with Baron. Would it be possible for you to give us a Coles Notes version of the original post? I hate long winded posts and references. What are the conclusions of this tome?
........ John
 
This all sounds like propaganda to me, as a species we've never had so much free leisure time, good heath, and ways to express our creativity and intellect.
If you want to deconstruct industrial society and highlight some of the inherent flaws i have no problem with that, but spreading ham-fisted enviornmentalist propaganda isnt going to convince anyone i dont think.
And for the record i do have extreme concerns about our environment and i atempt to live ethically, i just think spreading the idea of industrial society as the bloated ogre and mother nature and serene helpless victim isnt really getting anywhere close to a solution or a handle on the exact problems we have to face.
 
I think his logic is that technology is bad for the human race. Perhaps we should be living in caves - all six billion of us. Or get rid of human race, the environment will be fine like in MARS!

These type of arguments forget how to manage the rising population - feed, cloth, shelter etc. Since there is no alternative solution except the utilization of technology, the argument rests on how bad technology is.

Luddites exist because they can not cope with change or come up with better technological solutions.

Consider for example the MP3 music that one can put about 200 songs on a CD which will last say, 650 minutes of enjoyment and is extremely affordable. Some might argue that humans should not enjoy their life listening to music or hearing audio books to access knowledge. Others might argue that those things should be reserved for the rich. Take away the MP3 player for the masses, and you control the poor and middle class as to what they can listen, or see or feel or eat etc.

I think, it is all about a few rich and a few brainwashed people (by the rich) try to control rest of us.

What do you think? Before you answer that, think about how your life would have been before the industrial society but with present population (since having sex is natural!).
 
Think about what you're posting...

I have some recent posts that i'd like to address:

shakushinnen - your post serves to help validate shushil yadav's idea that we have short attention spans. If you're interested in the topic, why not read the entire, original, post? Maybe the ideas cannot be properly conveyed in a truncated version or summary. After reading the original post, i think it is essential to read it in its entirety and actually found parts very clever and funny (not to imply that the main idea of the topic is anything to joke about).

heliocentric - You think this is propaganda? And just to let you know, it is NOT TURE that as a species we've never had so much leisure time. Many hunter/gatherer cultures had much more free time on average. Read Daniel Quinn's, Ishmael, for more info on that topic. I think that your view of yadav's posts as "ham-fisted environmentalist propaganda" might be related to the "is-ought problem", first raised by David Hume. Basically, can we always draw reliable conclusions about how the world ought to be based on our knowledge of the way the world is? Your only experience on Earth (for the most part) probably revolves around the industrial world and, therefore, the result might be that you're more likely to feel the need to defend it. However, it is a fact that industrial society is destroying Earth at an alarming rate and will continue to do so until Earth is completely decimated. I think it is safe to say that people's current, collective, efforts to change this fact are laughable and have no real impact. Reversing this trend can only occur with very drastic, fundamental, changes in the way we think. I truly believe that you do try to act ethically, regarding the environment, but do you really think that the world would be saved if everyone on Earth lived the way that you do, currently?

Kmquru - I would like to address the part of your last post where you write, "these types of arguments forget how to manage the rising population - feed, cloth, shelter, etc. Since there is no alternative solution except the utilization of technology, the argument rests on how bad technology is." First of all, stating this, you imply that the human race and all of its desires/needs are far more important than anything else on Earth. Why are the needs of other species not equally as important? Secondly, why do you assume that there is no alternative solution to the problem of population growth except the utilization of technology? Could a better solution not be an emphasis on educating the masses to understand the importance of controlling reproduction instead of just focusing on managing population growth with technology?


Before any of you criticize the main ideas of yadav's posts, please consider these points:

1) If you extrapolate the human race's current trend of destruction, is there any other result except for total destruction unless there is DRASTIC change?

2) Are any of YOUR current ideas about human thought, the environment, or industrial society really going to amount to any noticeable changes in the current trend?

By the way, I'm not attacking any of you! I just really care about the topic and want to help make a difference before it's too late for all of us!!! :)

Sincerely, Mike
 
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First of all, stating this, you imply that the human race and all of its desires/needs are far more important than anything else on Earth.
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Anything else on Earth has been taken care of since 15 Billion years. Long before the advent of humans and will continue long after humans are gone. Second guessing creation is not wise. Solve your own problems first.

Why are the needs of other species not equally as important?
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It is to them, definitely. When you become God, you can manage everything. The child wants to be the father and mother out of the womb? Good Luck.

Secondly, why do you assume that there is no alternative solution to the problem of population growth except the utilization of technology?
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Show us the solution before criticizing one. It is like the guy who was cutting the branch sitting on the outer branch or that the grandmother who cut off the beak of the parrort thinking there is a design flaw.


Could a better solution not be an emphasis on educating the masses to understand the importance of controlling reproduction instead of just focusing on managing population growth with technology?
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Educate how? What is education without technology? Some religions forbid birth control. How do you change religion? Cutting off the hand that feeds one is simply stupid or simply naive.
 
Ok on re-reading what i posted i think i was alittle harsh, i agree industrial society does destroy the evironment, global warming for example is becomming so apparent im actually starting to visably worry about it. Whereas 10 years ago it was just this thing on the peripheral edges of my consciousness that 'might happen' 'maybe'.
So yeah industrial society is causing alot or problems, however the point i was getting across was i dont believe going back to living how we did 500 years ago would really solve anything. It probably would for the wider environent but for humanbeings it would make life 10 times worse than it is now.
I think we have to reasonably balance out the needs of the enviornment with our needs as a species really, this does appear to be the only reasonable compromise that people will accept.
I think the biggest problem we have though is curtailing our inherent instinct to expand, the nature of a social entity is that it will litterally expand and swallow up resources untill eveything is depleted.
Every other organism on the planet exists on the same basis, we just happened to be the species to beat every other species in our expansion drive.
So how do you get an entire species to go against that most primal ingrained instinct? - the instinct to expand. Its like telling men not stop having sex, or people to stop being violent. Its going to be unbelievably tricky i think.
 
I think we have to reasonably balance out the needs of the enviornment with our needs as a species really, this does appear to be the only reasonable compromise that people will accept.
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That is the most sensible thing you have said. Actually I agree that we are screwing up the environment, that is because this silo based thinking causes no one to look at the big picture.

Humans have probably contributed to 30 or 40% of the problems. But if it continues at this rate, there will be a tipping point that could (a big could) turn Earth in to Venus.

There is a simple solution that all the smart people ignore them because it is not technical or glamorous...it is:

A large number of the Earth's population cut the trees and burn then for cooking and warmth. This has to stop as the plants keep this planet in balance (O2,CO2).

Second there could be no new houses built without the equivalent trees planed that the housing, roads etc replace.

You get the idea.....
 
sushil yadav said:
(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]


MENTAL WORK IS INJURIOUS TO THE MIND AND PLANET.
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This is true insanity. Thinking is bad for the mind? Sure, just like physical activity is bad for your muscles.

Intellegence is a curse? Not if you want to survive.

Everything was fine until intellegence came along? What about the periodic massive extinction events where 99% of all life is wiped off the face of the earth? Were those events caused by intellegent humans in time machines!

Intellegence is a tool. It's the best tool humans possess. The most powerful tool ever to evolve on earth. It holds the key to our future.

The mindless, repetitive labor you are so enamored with is the curse. It is the curse that has finally been lifted from man by the industrial revolution.

If you are so in love with living like a peasant, move to Montana and live in a cabin in the woods. Get off the internet. Stop enjoying the fruits of high tech industrial society if you really believe what you say. Put your money where your mouth is.
 
If you are so in love with living like a peasant, move to Montana and live in a cabin in the woods. Get off the internet. Stop enjoying the fruits of high tech industrial society if you really believe what you say. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Money? where you get it outside the industrial scoety? Enjoys man's enemies called bacterias, viruses, parasites etc....and die in agony....the most adaptive creature nature made that decided adaption is bad for it....
 
>> A thinking species destroys the planet. This planet is on the verge of total destruction. ...

No and Yes

We have a planet on the eve of destruction because that is the default option in LIFE's program for human beings (flowers).
see Neil Young's After the Gold Rush
http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.php?hid=Ecl63BdyfL0=
It is known in the race knowledge of the human psyche what our fate is.

All people's biochemistry is toxic, their minds are either racing or dead, fantasy leads the way and all conscience and empathy has been destroyed, ....all proving that LIFE on this hunk of rock is an annual super-organism.

Just lay back and except what LIFE has instore for you. It does help to understand the problems and become more tolerant of your mad neighbours, and accept that for you there is no way out. You are redundant to LIFE's needs...all of you.
 
Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

sushil_yadav
 
You're advocating the extinction of our species, though you don't seem to explicitely realize it.

Look around you.

See what the species does.

Breathe.

Think.

What you see the species doing....

And breathe.....




That's what the species does.

It's natural.

We cannot disturb an environment. We are part of it. We are an effect of nature. We do not disturb anything. We bend it to our wills, because us having wills is apparently part of nature - since we observe in nature that people have will.

Their will is a response/reaction to...

(wait for it)




...Their perception of their environment.

The nature of time is that things change.

The nature of mind is partly at least - to preserve the moment.


You are naturally of course - trying to preserve the moment that represents a concept in your mind that you hold as sort of subjective ideal.

It's perfectly natural as well that others are doing the same thing and do not share this ideal - and that neither is objectively more valuable than the other....

It's perfectly possible the particular ideal of nature you're promoting is wholly flawed, and it artificially separates itself from nature and denies the nature of change of the universe - the fleeting nature of everything.

It could be that this argument is just a facet of my ego arguing with another facet of it, and that these words are the resultant of a chemical reaction, balancing itself according to nature's inescapable mandate of action and reaction, as encoded via the subjective context of their cumulative and current life's experience and the bio-chemical limitations/abilities (function) of their brain. My mind falls forward into the relational intersections of the ideas that develop a stronger/weaker potential as affected by the context in "focuse" at any time (t). Perhaps yours does too. Perhaps as it does so, it interacts with the environment and in some way - must change it.

I'm trying to understand exactly what's natural.

IMO, it seems to be much more than you're allowing it.

Mind you, I don't think chopping down entire forrests is generally a good idea, unless it's part of the survival/development of the species in which case I say - good luck stopping it - seriously, lol. Go for it.

Further it's really, really unlikely that we could leave the environment alone and maintain our numbers, though over time we'll learn to understand it better or we'll go extinct. Lucily for us, this is exactly what we're fundamentally driven to do: Understand and manipulate our environment.

You're even doing it by asking people not to do it.

Lol.
 
I would largely agree - humans are not separate and distinct from nature. Our bodies are made from the same stuffs as the rest of the planet, and whatever the truths about any spiritual or non physical existence. The physical aspect of humanity is 100 % pure nature and environment.
 
Man is the evolution of nature - even within Hindu philosophy he is the combining of the three gunas.


sushil yadav said:
Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.
Click to expand...



Nature needs, therefore, man is..


Man is the culmination of the need of nature for itself


therefore, man is desire personified.
 
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