Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Ok, but you said you didnt want to go back to living in caves, so you obviously accept some aspects of technology.
So make a list of technologies YOU accept.
We already know you accept the use of a computer!
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
- Thread starter sushil yadav
- Start date
So make a list of technologies YOU accept.
We already know you accept the use of a computer!
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
I agree. Using wind power or installing solar panels on ones roof is using modern technology as a means to live sustainably and without placing too much of an impact on the environment. Its unrealistic to say we can turn back the clock and return to some pre-technological time in which case we would also have to throw away our pick ax.
sushil yadav
Registered Senior Member
What green technology? - what sustainable technology?
How is renewable energy going to save ecosystems as long as consumerism exists?
First of all, Renewable energy is made by some kind of machines, gadgets, appliances. So you destroy ecosystems to make the machinery that makes renewable energy.
Secondly, okay - you have renewable energy - now what are you going to do with it? - you are going to use it to run consumer goods - so you are trying to run a consumerist society with renewable energy.
When we make consumer goods we kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land - directly or indirectly.
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.
It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.
Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.
Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted. Industry kills Water.
Industries/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel - and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.
Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.
When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.
When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.
Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.
We have limited resources/ ecosystems on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.
If we destroy ecosystems for fewer things [food, clothing, shelter and health care] the ecosystems will last longer.
If we destroy ecosystems for more things [consumer goods] the ecosystems will finish much sooner.
The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.
This is common sense - plain common sense - which the so called smart, intelligent, advanced, civilized and developed Industrial Society does not possess.
"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism", "Sustainable Development".
These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.
You cannot save a person after you have killed him.
You cannot save ecosystems after you have killed them for making consumer goods.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
How is renewable energy going to save ecosystems as long as consumerism exists?
First of all, Renewable energy is made by some kind of machines, gadgets, appliances. So you destroy ecosystems to make the machinery that makes renewable energy.
Secondly, okay - you have renewable energy - now what are you going to do with it? - you are going to use it to run consumer goods - so you are trying to run a consumerist society with renewable energy.
When we make consumer goods we kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land - directly or indirectly.
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.
It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.
Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.
Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted. Industry kills Water.
Industries/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel - and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.
Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.
When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.
When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.
Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.
We have limited resources/ ecosystems on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.
If we destroy ecosystems for fewer things [food, clothing, shelter and health care] the ecosystems will last longer.
If we destroy ecosystems for more things [consumer goods] the ecosystems will finish much sooner.
The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.
This is common sense - plain common sense - which the so called smart, intelligent, advanced, civilized and developed Industrial Society does not possess.
"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism", "Sustainable Development".
These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.
You cannot save a person after you have killed him.
You cannot save ecosystems after you have killed them for making consumer goods.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Carcano
Valued Senior Member
All righty then...YOU must go back to the caves.
Shut down your computer...turn out the lights...off with your clothes!!!
sushil yadav
Registered Senior Member
TechnoWorshipper, Computers are being used today because they exist - because they are being produced by Industrial Society. Were people using computers 500 years ago?
Talk about simple living , talk about reducing consumerism , talk about saving environment - and people start mentioning caves. Since when did "simple living" become equivalent to living in caves?
You have suggested caves to me. What do you suggest to rest of the world population? - American lifestyle? - the Great American Dream? - 5% of world population consuming 40% of world resources?
I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.
Why do you breathe the Air?
Why do you drink the Water?
Why do you eat the Food that comes from the Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.
In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.
Show some respect to Nature.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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The problem is greed, gluttony, and sloth, and the ensuing unfulfillment.
I had a strange afternoon one day. I went shopping to find some cushions for my patio chairs and I couldn't find the right shape and size to fit. So I went to a handful of different stores, and while I was looking around, I couldn't help but notice the aisle after aisle after store after store floor to ceiling mountains of crap. Cheap, disposable, ugly, useless, crap. The only reason its produced is to make money, and the only reason its consumed is because we have money, and think all this useless crap is going to make us happy or fulfilled.
I've also spent over a decade working in the restaurant industry, and I know I threw away more food in an average day than I actually fed to people. Everyday stuck behind in a futile effort to get around all of the obese people waddling slowly to their tables, barely able to walk, so they can kill themselves some more. Watching all of the parents who feed their poor doomed children a steady diet of processed breaded deep fried meat, sugar, fat, and artificial coloring. And we wonder why so many children are sick and on drugs. Do kids even play outside anymore? Or are they all too busy texting, and playing video games, watching TV, on the computer, or doing their mountains of homework so they can grow up to be good little slaves to the federal reserve like their parents.
I myself have to spend 8 hours a day trapped behind some desk trying to squeeze another nickel out of an income statement for some corrupt fat cat, so I can afford food and a roof over my head.
And for the most part, for all of our efforts we don't have quality! Nothing is beautiful, nothing is made to last. Just more disposable crap. Even the food we eat is void of nutrition from us raping the soil, or a blatent disregard for the concept of nutrition altogether. And the waste we create is killing us!
This society we live in is so perverse!
I had a strange afternoon one day. I went shopping to find some cushions for my patio chairs and I couldn't find the right shape and size to fit. So I went to a handful of different stores, and while I was looking around, I couldn't help but notice the aisle after aisle after store after store floor to ceiling mountains of crap. Cheap, disposable, ugly, useless, crap. The only reason its produced is to make money, and the only reason its consumed is because we have money, and think all this useless crap is going to make us happy or fulfilled.
I've also spent over a decade working in the restaurant industry, and I know I threw away more food in an average day than I actually fed to people. Everyday stuck behind in a futile effort to get around all of the obese people waddling slowly to their tables, barely able to walk, so they can kill themselves some more. Watching all of the parents who feed their poor doomed children a steady diet of processed breaded deep fried meat, sugar, fat, and artificial coloring. And we wonder why so many children are sick and on drugs. Do kids even play outside anymore? Or are they all too busy texting, and playing video games, watching TV, on the computer, or doing their mountains of homework so they can grow up to be good little slaves to the federal reserve like their parents.
I myself have to spend 8 hours a day trapped behind some desk trying to squeeze another nickel out of an income statement for some corrupt fat cat, so I can afford food and a roof over my head.
And for the most part, for all of our efforts we don't have quality! Nothing is beautiful, nothing is made to last. Just more disposable crap. Even the food we eat is void of nutrition from us raping the soil, or a blatent disregard for the concept of nutrition altogether. And the waste we create is killing us!
This society we live in is so perverse!
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Well, since YOU dont want to go back to the caves there must be some technologies YOU accept...so list them here!!!
What technologies are compatible with 'simple living'.
We already know YOU accept the use of computers!
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
When does the word "we" not include me? Why on earth would you ask such a blatently obvious question?
sushil yadav
Registered Senior Member
You are taking this discussion completly off-track. Did I ever claim I am not a part of society that is destroying the ecosystems? The topic of my article says - "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" - and since I am living in a city and in "Industrial Society" I automatically get included.
People born in Industrial Society - people born in modern cities become consumerists from day one. Even villagers and farmers have become consumerists today. And once again, computers are being used today because they are being manufactured. Was anyone using computers 500 years ago - when they were not being manufactured?
But still if you want to pursue this further let me tell you a few things. I have not been working/ earning for many years - so the question of buying consumer goods does not arise. The computer I am using is also not mine. I invite you to post a list of all the consumer goods and services you are using. I will post my list. And then we will compare to find out who is a bigger burden on this planet.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Well then stop complaining about a problem YOU are part of.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
You dont have to use a computer simply because they are being produced.
Are you a robot that has to buy whatever is on sale.
I didnt have a computer until I was 37 years old...I still choose not to own a cell phone, printer, television, car or even a bicycle.
You CAN choose to stop contributing to the problems you talk about.
But talking is above all...easier!
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Old people today have a different opinion. They are being forced to use the computer, plastic money, etc.
Well, not only they are.. but they are the ones that may have a problem with that.
Cell phones, if you don't own one people look at you as if you're a caveman at times. Still I hate the things with a passion, I've trashed mine.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
At least youre doing something about it...instead of just yapping.
sushil yadav
Registered Senior Member
Here is a genius who is complaining about my use of computer when he himself is using one. Are you trying to suggest that ecosystems could be saved and environmental crisis would end if sushil_yadav was not using the computer?
A system that produces computers will ensure that they are sold. A system that produces "consumer goods" will ensure that they are sold. If the goods are not sold the system will cease to exist. As long as goods are being produced they will be purchased - buying cannot stop in Industrial Society.
Ecosystems are not going to be saved if a few people live a simple life - if a few thosand people live a simple life - if a few million people live a simple life - or even if a few billion people live a simple life.
There is no dearth of examples. Presently a few billion people - about 3/ 4 billion people across the world are living a very simple life with very few material possessions - causing very little destruction of ecosystems [ and these 3/4 billion people are also not using the computer, by the way]. But this has not served as an example for the rest of the 3 billion to give up their materialism and consumerism - this has'nt saved the ecosystems because the rest of the 3 billion people are living a highly consumerist existence.
In pre-industrial society people did'nt need to be told to live a simple life - most people were living a simple life because consumer goods that exist today did not exist then.
An Industrial Society is destructive from the very beginning. Over a period of time it becomes more and more destructive because the number of consumer goods keeps increasing and the number of people buying the consumer goods keeps increasing. This is what we are witnessing today - the rate of destruction has risen exponentially - the total destruction that took place in the last 50 years will now take place in only 5 years.
The lifestyle of one single person does'nt really matter. It is how the whole society lives collectively that matters. Talking about simple living in an "Industrial Society" is meaningless. And in a non-industrial society one does'nt even need to tell people to live a simple life - in the absence of consumer goods most people automatically live a simple life.
In an Industrial Society a substantial percentage of population lives a consumerist life. This population is enough to cause environmental destruction. The rest of the population living a simple life will not be able to prevent the environmental crash.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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Carcano
Valued Senior Member
First of all, its necessary for someone complaining about others to BE an example of the change he demands.
And second, if you dont advocate going back to the stone age YOU must make a list of technologies you accept.
So stop your mindless yapping and just do it!
No I will not. You think I live in a vacuum? I don't see a solution in segregating myself from society and living in isolation. You can't even do that in todays world, EVERYTHING is owned.
The good thing about the ills of society and what's wrong with humanity is that it inevitably results in anihilation. Because we're so entrenched as a society, and we're so inherently flawed as humans, we have no choice. So bring on the apocalypse piggies!
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
Sure you could...if you really wanted to.
And it doesnt even require a singular isolation.
There are whole societies who opted out long ago.
The Amish are a good example...the Jains of India...Christian monastic communities.
sushil yadav
Registered Senior Member
Carcano said:
It has become a crime to point out the flaws in society. One should not complain. One should always think positive - one should always be an optimist.
Think positive , be an eternal optimist - while the planet burns.
Eat, drink and make merry - while the planet burns.
Carcano said:
If such kind of living by a fraction of population is the solution then why is the world facing ecosystem collapse/ environmental crisis? Does everyone live this way in Industrial Society? Can everyone live this way in Industrial Society?
First of all, as mentioned in a previous post I am living quite a simple life - are you posting without reading the replies?
Secondly, unlike you I am under no illusion that my simple living - your simple living or anyone else's simple living is going to solve environmental crisis.
It seems you have trouble understanding simple english. You don't understand the issues at all.
Ecosystems are not going to be saved if a few people live a simple life - if a few thousand people live a simple life - if a few million people live a simple life - or even if a few billion people live a simple life.
There is no dearth of examples. Presently a few billion people - about 3/ 4 billion people across the world are living a very simple life with very few material possessions - causing very little destruction of ecosystems [ and these 3/4 billion people are also not using the computer, by the way]. But this has not served as an example for the rest of the 3 billion to give up their materialism and consumerism - this has'nt saved the ecosystems because the rest of the 3 billion people are living a highly consumerist existence.
A system that produces computers will ensure that they are sold. A system that produces "consumer goods" will ensure that they are sold. If the goods are not sold the system will cease to exist. As long as goods are being produced they will be purchased - buying cannot stop in Industrial Society. The cycle of manufacturing, selling and buying cannot end in Industrial Society.
An Industrial Society is destructive from the very beginning. Over a period of time it becomes more and more destructive because the number of consumer goods keeps increasing and the number of people buying the consumer goods keeps increasing. This is what we are witnessing today - the rate of destruction has risen exponentially - the total destruction that took place in the last 50 years will now take place in only 5 years.
The lifestyle of one single person does'nt really matter. It is how the whole society lives collectively that matters. Talking about simple living in an "Industrial Society" is meaningless. And in a non-industrial society one does'nt even need to tell people to live a simple life - in the absence of consumer goods most people automatically live a simple life.
In an Industrial Society a substantial percentage of population lives a consumerist life. This population is enough to cause environmental destruction. The rest of the population living a simple life will not be able to prevent the environmental crash.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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That's not the way I want to live either. I want to live in complete freedom.
I'm not looking for an escape, I'm looking for redemption. I'm looking for a permanent fix.
Unlike sushi, I'm saying bring on the fire.