Incommensurability. . . . High Strangeness

Possibly I can add to this discussion a little.
My first post to this forum so I apologise if this has been discussed ad nausium before.

As most persons know who have read my stuff I have openly declared that I have had and are having profound telepathic experiences.
I have found that the realm of telepathy is just as confusing as any other realm of endevour. More so if anything because of the serious denial that goes on concerning it's reality.

I have found that telepathy is a normal part of the nature of human consciousness, subconsciousness and unconsciousness.

OK ....that said....

Regarding alien intelligence. Firstly let me lay some particluar beliefs that I hold.
1] Aliens capable of "hyperspace" travel are not interested in being nasty. In fact they are essentially benevolent.
2] If aliens were indeed nasty we would have been invaded ages ago.
3] Aliens are actually in a bit of a bind. They know that their evolved telepathic natures cause panic and paranoia in the human population.
4] They are waiting for humanity to evolve sufficiently enough so that we can cope with their conscious telepathic presence on this planet and surrounds.

Due to my telepathic experience it is obvious that at this level of conscousness we are a truly fearful lot.

If we pick up an alien thought we immediately call it thought insertion and fear being controled by an alien will. The fear then generates an acute awareness of other "normal" insertions and before you know it labels such as Schizophrenia are applied and all insights are debunked as false.

What we fail to understand is it is our denial of the telepathic reality that is in the main reason that is fueling this fear and instinctive reactions. of course this denial is also fueled by our fear. [ so there is no easy solution ]

In my telepathic travels I have glimpsed 5 races other than earth human in this galaxy alone. One race in particluar has a vested interest in our welfare. By glimpse I mean a snap shot like a photo that was captured before fear shut down the conscious perception. at no time then or now did I sense any violent intent, only puzzlement and patience.
So the fear that shut me down was not mine but the culmination of every one else impacting on my subconscious. They are waiting for us to learn to cope with their existence. A sort of culture shock is still being felt even now by those who have experienced their mental touch consciously.

Any way , I just thought I would add something to this discussion
 
Quantom Quack. Welcome aboard! Great post, especially for your first.

You bring up some VERY interesting ideas about telepathy, schizophrenia and the idea of insertion of thoughts, ideas by extra-terrestrial or ultra demensional forces. This is where your interests intersect with mine. The "aliens" may not be what we would call fundamentally benevolent or malevolen. You state that if they were a bad bunch they would have invaded us long ago. I think "they" have and that's the problem. Their ideas could be replicating in the form of pernicious thinking, globally. By "them", I mean at least some of "them" ;)
 
Agitprop said:
Quantom Quack. Welcome aboard! Great post, especially for your first.

You bring up some VERY interesting ideas about telepathy, schizophrenia and the idea of insertion of thoughts, ideas by extra-terrestrial or ultra demensional forces. This is where your interests intersect with mine. The "aliens" may not be what we would call fundamentally benevolent or malevolen. You state that if they were a bad bunch they would have invaded us long ago. I think "they" have and that's the problem. Their ideas could be replicating in the form of pernicious thinking, globally. By "them", I mean at least some of "them" ;)
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Thanks for the welcome. I thought I'd get straight into it.

I disagreee about the notion that they have already invaded. From my experience it is that they could not invade something that they seeded "started" years ago. In other words we are an evolution of them. "Them" being the particular race I referred to that has a vested interest in our welfare.

In other words they seeded human genome here in the first place.

So to say that they have invaded in the past is not quite true according to my knowledge. [ or belief]

They have been involved in saving their own existance by starting their own genome again free of the genetic engineering they did to them selves. In a way we are a genetic improvement of their failed attempts at their own genetic engineering [ they engineered their own potential extinction and humanity was seeded [ started] so that they could fix their own genetic problems.]
Sorry it is a big story to tell in so short a post......

This particular race are our forefathers. And genetic harvesting has been going on for a long time, however recently it has more or less stopped for reasons even they are baffled about.
Certainly this is what I have come to learn of...
 
I think I read of the term "genetic entropy" somewhere......might help with the understanding.
 
Quantom, The theory that we are starchildren is intriguing and has intrinsic appeal to many. However, if people start to believe that they are some kind of created product doesn't that automatically confer God like status on the "visitors", who claim, apparently, that they are the creators? They may be intelligences that are simply interfering and making up stories. Isn't it up to us to eschew simple doctrines like the one that suggests we abandon all fear, and develop our powers of discernment? Panic should always be avoided, but the emotion of fear, though negative in some situations, can be helpful in others.
 
Agitprop said:
Quantom, The theory that we are starchildren is intriguing and has intrinsic appeal to many. However, if people start to believe that they are some kind of created product doesn't that automatically confer God like status on the "visitors", who claim, apparently, that they are the creators? They may be intelligences that are simply interfering and making up stories. Isn't it up to us to eschew simple doctrines like the one that suggests we abandon all fear, and develop our powers of discernment? Panic should always be avoided, but the emotion of fear, though negative in some situations, can be helpful in others.
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Does this confer God like qualities?
I guess in our history they have been seen to be as such but today we are by far more enlightened. I would not consider them God-like at all in fact I find them to be looking at us with God like reverence, after all we are saving their arses so to speak. They didn't create the genome afterall but merely stuffed it up and are attempting to fix their terrible mistake.

Making up stories?
Well I guess that is all they are until proven to be fact all theories are mere stories, actually I prefer the word story than the word theory.

As far as stories go there is even a bigger picture playing where even these particular aliens are merely playing a part in, ahh!! but that is another.... story.

I will give a better account later as I have appointments to keep.
 
hah the irony....wpould you believe i am now wishingfor a skeptic to appear on te scene.......?

you see I cannot accept all this . and why should i? yesi Do accept that strange things have happened to preople. but te'explanations' being bandied aouthere are too---dogmatic. why SHOULDi believe you QQ, in your assurances about your take on this matter. to me this'd be same if i believed saome prophet whp calimed that 'God' saidsuch nd such

N i chooseNOT to. but do listen to people share stange experiences.....do you see the distinction i make?
 
"I've forseen 3 alien races, then I picked Terran because I hate the Zerg." - Anonymous quote about Blizzards-"Starcraft"

the UK's Channel 5 had a whole "Scifi weekend" and one of the specific things that covered was UFO's and the true story. The overall program suggested that UFO's, or flying saucers all came from captured Nazi technology. It was suggested that both the US and the Russian's developed saucer craft that work in essence similar to helicopter.

There was even a rather interesting presentation of potential flightpaths that tended to cross the Northpole between Russia and the US, since during the coldwar that was the quickest route between the two countries.

There was even the explaination that some society that was built to claim that Aliens had been to earth, or UFO's existed was actually started by some very high up CIA officials.

Making UFO's and Alien encounters purely down to espionage.

Nowadays it's Mass Hysteria and the Move industry that continues to fuel peoples imaginations.
 
duendy said:
hah the irony....wpould you believe i am now wishingfor a skeptic to appear on te scene.......?

you see I cannot accept all this . and why should i? yesi Do accept that strange things have happened to preople. but te'explanations' being bandied aouthere are too---dogmatic. why SHOULDi believe you QQ, in your assurances about your take on this matter. to me this'd be same if i believed saome prophet whp calimed that 'God' saidsuch nd such

N i chooseNOT to. but do listen to people share stange experiences.....do you see the distinction i make?
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Actually it is kind of funny I must admiit :D

Of course I don't expect you or any one to believe me just because of anything I say with out an appropriate method of confirmation. Ha..... I wouldn't so why would I expect others to be any different?
I don't need others to believe what I believe, it is unecessary for me to be too concerned about it as, if truth can not be confirmed then it aint much good any way....
I've just been yapping about what I believe to be truth that has yet to be confirmed...and aint that the truth.... :)

Btw I have never percieved a UFO either, just the aliens them selves on their worlds not ours.
 
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you see there IS danger if a dogma came about that 'aliens' 'seeded' us--which already exists in some places---but i mean if it was to become A next religion or something

Actually years back i got this book from alibrary titles 'Genesis Book of Revelations'....no, not te Bbicla one. tis was by a cartogrpaher called errr David Wood if memory serves. summarized he claims that extremely precize measurments makr anceint monuments over large distances. so mathemetatically correct it is astounding ...bla
and hs main contantion is that there is a secret hidden underground at this abbey---probably one mention in Holy Grail boks nd De vinci code enre

autor goes on tat famous artists like de Vinci etc ee privy to a secret knwledge that says aliens gentically altered apes, and hey volia we came to be.......

so, what i mean is he is saying something similar to you

but what i noticed VERY much then reading all that. that for ALL his sureity he was uncovering secrert hidden knowldege. he didn't know kack SHIT about te hideen role of psychedelics...! and that a lot of the symbols etc he was using ae prt OF the hidden symbolism. do you get me. so his tesis was extremely ironic, and i couoldn't take it that seriously

IF we were to believe we ere 'seeded' then te seeders become our 'gods' and/or parents, and all that shit starts agin. we become 'children' lookin up, instead of reponsible adults, in charge of our own sht

And urther, even if it WAS true. it still involves the question ...so whomade the seeder, so why made the seeders who made the seeders .like a child askin'so who made GOd, and who made the prson who made god.....etc infinite regression

so no fuker has control over us. BUt Nature IS us
 
Actually it is kind of funny that for the first time in about 15 years I have the urge to share the "story " so to speak. So may be if you all could allow me this indulgence, I shall spill a bit more on the table so to speak.

Firstly though to Duendy's comment:

"......But nature is us"

Duendy, exactly. The whole point of this seeding was to take an ancient slice of genetic material and allow it to evolve naturally. The earth is like a pristine eccological laboratory. So for all intents and purposes we are entirely natural with just one major distinction, our genome was not born here through natural selective process but more like implanted here to allow natural selection processes to come to be.

OK ..this is just a story of unconfirmed truth [ to me]

To continue:
As most of you know I have been working in the realms of the psych for many years. IN my work I have found that the greatest hindrance to psychic development and psychic self control [ self- restraint, discipline] stems form those ole hormones that determine sexual and gender characteristics.

In fact many times in the past I have often considered the use of chemical or physical castration as a possible solution to this incredibly difficult aspect of psychic evolution. Testosterone and a whole host of similar hormones continuously tends to corrupt the self discipline required to manage psychic pheno properly.

The desire for power over others including women [ from a man's perspective] is overwhelming in nearly all cases. Some will refer to this as an outcome of playing with serious kundlini energies. It is potent and intoxicating. I used to call it the "sirens call" The second Charka [ high pelvis] will cause the stalling of this evolution as the mind is turned to significant earthly pursuits, and not just sexual even though this is probably the most evident but more the kind that drives ambition and aggression including violence.

Now how this relates to our friends in the sky.

Many years ago this alien race had reached a similar point in their understanding of the genome that we have just recently got to. The genome has been mapped out and now we are attempting to work out what to do with this knowledge.

Just like they did many years ago we are now on the verge of discovering how to play God with our own DNA.

Just like we are tempted to do they attempted to remove the genetic materials responsible for mental health problems such as schizophrenia and other more psychic orientated conditions. They too had the problem of over filling psychiatric wards and now [ so many years ago] they had the genetic answers.
Most importantly to them at the time was the problem of inherent violent tendencies and aggression with in their race. They simply removed their violent tendencies genetically, striving for peace.

They used this knowledge and effectively castrated themselves. By removing the sexual hormones or altering them so significantly they promoted the self restraint and controls that allowed for psychic development. Although not actually planing to do so as the psychic development was an intriguing side effect. [ They too did not originally believe in the psychic nature of the mind ] [ also as an aside it was the advent of psychic controls and evidence that allowed them to work out the nature of hyper space travel.]

They simply cheated evolution and natural selection and gave themselves a psychic advantage simply by removing the need to learn the disciplines needed to over come what I call the "fire storm" of emergent psychic ability.

With this and other genetic manipulations they also achieved significant life spans and freedom from most diseases.

However and this is a big however,
What they failed to secure was a cure for genetic entropy and as their genome homogenised in a test tube and as time itself played a price on their enthusiasm and determination for survival it became evident that they were doomed as a race unless they re-invented themselves and allowed themselves to evolve with out their genetic machinations and allow nature to be a better teacher than some finite formula on a white board.

So what they did was find a suitable planet and seeded humanity so as to allow their original DNA to evolve under rules of natural selection.

What is however important at this time is that we too have reached a point in our history where by we too can now start to meddle with our natural evolutionary processes.

Summary:
We have a race of humanoids that has determined it's own evolution for thousands of years.

The genetic material needed for their own survival was destroyed when they removed the hormones necessary for gender differentiation.

Genetic entropy has eliminated their ability to maintain any semblance of a healthy genome.

Alien children did not exist, there was no need to reproduce as life spans were deemed to be eternal [ terribly flawed and arrogant belief]

They failed to account for ennui or entropy and how removal of the gender hormones ultimately destroyed their chance at survival.

They basically cheated evolution by artificial means, managed to succeed in an artificial way to get through the psychic evolution they were experiencing [ as all humanoid races need to go or evolve through] but by doing so failed to find a natural solution and destroyed their long term future.

As a race they took what they thought was the easy path rather than do the real work needed to evolve their psychics abilities with out castration or gender neutralisation. They didn't like the kundalini energies involved so they simply removed the mechanism that made those energies difficult.

Humanity is working damn hard at doing the same thing and making the same ultimate mistake.

I now this from my own experiences with profound psychic or telepathic experiences. How the lust [ for knowledge, power, violence and sex] factor provides many many challenges to gaining a manageable psychic state.

So , that’s the reasoning behind the story of how we are and were saving their arses.

The particular race involved in all this now has a reproductive capacity that they didn't have for thousands of years. Thus they were ultimately successful in their desires for survival as a race. [ so far]

Phew!! long post sorry....
 
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dont mean to diss you QQ, but i do not believe your myth

i can appreciate how YOU believe it. but me, no.

and i have to say i find assumptions IN it quite disturbing and blatantly patriarchist. for example your near meeting wi castrating yourself, because your assumption that sexuality atrophies subtle intelligence...? sheeesh that old chestnut is SOOO blatantly patriarcal dude, and it is shared both by Eastern metaphyscial dualistic philosophy and Judaic Christian thoeogy...in fact throw in all Abrahamamic beliefs too...!

for esample, te latter's arden of Eden myth is ALl about both demonizing the psychedelic sacrament, and sexuality as was a central prt of prepatriarchal religious ritual.
read how in Judaic Chrisitan Bible, PAul condemns sex, and espcially same sex...? well he isreally referring to Goddess religin, wich the 'fathers termed the 'Abomination'. and ever since sexuality was rom them te worst sin

in the East it has been fairl common for 'holy men' to castrate themselves, believing tis will give them greater psychic powers......but it rather leaves them in deep depression---of course

EROS, is central to understanding prepatriarcal wisdom. it is the intercnnecting facor. a deep abiding energy which connects. it is NOT connected wit violence and agression as your myth assumes. quite the contrary. A swWillhelm Reich shows, it is rather the SUPPRESSon and repression of tis vital natrual need which has been and is the cause of sadim and fascxism and ptriarchal perpetual war. it is the holding BACK from complete orgasm, and the suppression of ecstatic experince inspired wit psychedelic sacraments which is held fast to by patriarchal authoritaianism...
 
and i have to say i find assumptions IN it quite disturbing and blatantly patriarchist. for example your near meeting wi castrating yourself, because your assumption that sexuality atrophies subtle intelligence...? sheeesh that old chestnut is SOOO blatantly patriarcal dude, and it is shared both by Eastern metaphyscial dualistic philosophy and Judaic Christian thoeogy...in fact throw in all Abrahamamic beliefs too...!
Click to expand...

My apologies for not making myself clear.

I considered castration only in desparation years ago as a possible solution to the fire storm that was inhibiting my psychic development. I said this to show how I could empathises with the terrible mistake the Aliens made. I could understand why they chose what they did and also understand how this fire storm challenge must be met through training and self discipline not chemical or genetic modification for ultimate success.

Basically : you can't cheat when it comes to evolution.

Of course it is obvious that societal pressures be it religious or legal are attempts at generating self restraint and discipline. The legal system for example philosophically is there to make up for peoples lack of integrity and self discipline, to provide a societal restraint in place of personal development and self evolution. Not to mention pushing and enforcing what is presumably the majority view on to an individual.

If the individual can't control himself , society will.
Thus the advent of religion and societal controls.

What the aliens did to themsleves was rid themselves of the need to do the hard work necessary to evolve their own instinctive reflexes so that they could live in peace. So instead of placing every one on anti- aggression medication they genetically modified instead.

So basiclly they dumped sex in favour of peace and the psychic. And I am not just talkig about sex as a pleasure thing but I am talking about sex also as a gender thing, much deeper than mere orgasmic pleasures.

Every single cell in the body is gender and DNA premised. Castration does not alter your gender completely but merely destroys expression of it. THus castration is suppression of erotic expression by force of will.

Genetic modification of an entire race is an enitirely different thing.
It cannot be directly related to simple castration or surgical neutering.
 
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'mere orgasmic pleasure'...???

really QQ. you kinda surpise ing me. i really dontgel wid your beliefs at all, in tis case. thins have t ring right for me.....i am meaning across the fields as it were, seeing patterns?.....without meaning to diss you, but looking AT the belief, it seems absurd to me

also i have much problemo wit 'chammeling' and 'contact wit higher intelligences' in a philosophical sense. for example the Mazatc curendero who would take sacraments/msuhrooms---it was believed the spirits of the shrooms could direct indiviudal to healing plants etc. THAT i can accomadate....it is more like an extension of or power. realizing our contiuum with environment. ,,,,but when 'entities' beging giving stories of reality, etcis when i get very suspictious, and see the danger of that...because what happens is from such encouters dogams become created that conflict with othe beliefs. i mean i am talkin the 'revealed' patrarch religions also....!
tere is no way a person can pove what another experiences , with 'invisible intelligences'---i trust EXPERIENDCE---if something extraordinary happens to pople--if i trust them. but when messages come forth about beginnings and rules for living etc. no
 
really QQ. you kinda surpise ing me. i really dontgel wid your beliefs at all, in tis case. thins have t ring right for me.....i am meaning across the fields as it were, seeing patterns?.....without meaning to diss you, but looking AT the belief, it seems absurd to me
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And of course it would seem absurd to you. Such is the nature of the energy.

It's a bit like asking the question:
Is an act of violence ever justified?

And you will get a whole heap of apologists claiming the violence has justification yet deep down know damn well that there is none. That defensive violence is only a natural outcome of offensive violence, so there for it can be justified.

So the world goes round in it's cycles of violence because we can not simply say "no" to it.

The energy involved is such as it is. It is life force, it is the essence of self justification, because it is the universe self justifying it's existance. It is addiction and also the addiction.

Duendy you often talk about the erotic pleasures and associate this with the psychadelic. If you think this is the limit of sexual bliss you are truly mistaken. Erotic potentials go way further than a mere orgasm of pleasure, it drives right into the ego and percpetion. The orgasmic pleasure of shooting a snipers rifle at a civilian, the blood lust of soldiers when they rape and pillage. The drive that put man on the moon, and the pitiful sex drive that creates a market for prostitution and sexual slavery. The pleasure people get wehn they witness acts of violence as well [ inc. simulated and actual ]

But most importantly it is about creating an environment for our children and family, the building of civilisation and a society we can live with and within and the pursuit of sustainable solutions.

To talk about orgasmic pleasures we need to look beyond just the mere sesuality of flesh and soul. And to do this without the use of chemicals and do it properley is what it is about.

It is actually ironic, but the taking of psychodelic substances actually inhibits your erotic potentials from ever manifesting in reality.

To get to a point where by humanity can explore it's full erotic potential is a damn hard road, a very long journey and a very painful one, but it can not be avoided by chemical [ including psychodelic ] or genetic means.
 
haha...but that is YOUR myth duuude. not mine. you seem gone on it. almost evamgelical, which will put many people off anyway. maybe i do, but i am passionate. so it seems are you. as long as we dont war each other everytings fine


you know. it is alright by me if peopl do not want or agree wit psychedelic experience...fine. it is when they FORCE oters ho do not to is when itis completely wrong and against peoples natrual freedom

i find your beliefs abhorrent, but yo are free to beliefe what you wanna, as long as they ont impige on my freedoms. i aont gonna wr you, but i would feel it as oppression, as i feel this current oppressive myth is oppressive

i culd try and reason wid you and talk about mythology wetc etc. but i SENSE you are too deep into your shit to reall feel me
 
duendy said:
haha...but that is YOUR myth duuude. not mine. you seem gone on it. almost evamgelical, which will put many people off anyway. maybe i do, but i am passionate. so it seems are you. as long as we dont war each other everytings fine


you know. it is alright by me if peopl do not want or agree wit psychedelic experience...fine. it is when they FORCE oters ho do not to is when itis completely wrong and against peoples natrual freedom

i find your beliefs abhorrent, but yo are free to beliefe what you wanna, as long as they ont impige on my freedoms. i aont gonna wr you, but i would feel it as oppression, as i feel this current oppressive myth is oppressive

i culd try and reason wid you and talk about mythology wetc etc. but i SENSE you are too deep into your shit to reall feel me
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me...evangelical.......ha.....duendy talk about "the pot calling the kettle black"....ha

So tell me where I am attempting to evangelise my story and my understanding....
What am I trying to sell here?

Possibly I am selling that a natural way of life free of genetic and chemical modifications is the best way but also the hardest and most painful way......if this is the case I apologise for I do not wish to sell anything.....

You see Duendy we essentially agree on the natural path however you have one disadvantage, and that is you rely on chemical substances to do what you could have learned to do naturally with out those substances and the mental training that is needed is now unavilable to you. Because you have chosen an easy path instead of the harder path of self discovery and potentialisation with out the artificial help of an aggressive chemical substance. So now you are limited by that substance, what was essentially infinite is now finite.

Ok now if you could just count to ten before you post your angry response ..........
 
well Ives shoulda carried on wid his shit, and not left it hangin in the air....

QQ---look howyou try and tell me to do abc. to follow you. that whati do is 'lesser'. THAT is what i dont like.

i amnot 'doin' psychedelics every week, or every month even. as have done our ancestors since primal times, we take them fairly infrequently, and integrate the insights etc...

may youth admittedly dont do tis. the 'blitz' etc. tis is what i try and challenge. it is the modern 'self-destruct' and 'instant' materialistic atttitude

psychedelics are LEVELLERS. what do i mean by that?
well you got your 'holy men' and yer newage hawks who promise tris and tat for money and the carifice of your time and individuality tomake THEM rich and self important for some shit promised you might kid yerself yo got or wont ever get. the 'wont ver get' is welcmed by these shysters cause it keeps you clingin to teir authority.....!

wit psychedelics however it is completely different. you say to a person. look there are tese FREE shrooms growing in a filed. pick some, eat ad be joyyfull, andlarn from your UNIQUE experience. just tat

we are NOT qwwanting to become 'god' nor 'telep-atic'--well i aint anyhow. or get rid of checmicals or genes. all that is absurd....so go preach to someone else mate
 
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