Incommensurability. . . . High Strangeness

[Ives]

Ives here. I'm re-copying this post from Whispers regarding a new paper by Jacques Vallee and Eric Davis:

For anybody from the UFO and SETI communities. The full paper has just been posted to the Whats New section of the NIDS web site (http://www.nidsci.org)
Regards
Colm Kelleher

Incommensurability, Orthodoxy and the Physics of High Strangeness:
A 6-layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena
by
Jacques F. Vallee and Eric W. Davis
National Institute for Discovery Science
Las Vegas, Nevada

Abstract

The main argument presented in this paper is that continuing study of unidentified aerial phenomena (“UAP”), including “apparitions” of a religious or spiritual nature, may offer an existence theorem for new models of physical reality. The current SETI paradigm and its “assumption of mediocrity” place restrictions on forms of non-human intelligence that may be researched in our environment. A similar bias exists in the ufologists’ often-stated hypothesis that UAP, if real, must represent space visitors. Observing that both models are biased by anthropomorphism, the authors attempt to clarify the issues surrounding “high strangeness” observations by distinguishing six layers of information that can be derived from anomalous events, namely (1) physical manifestations, (2) anti-physical effects, (3) psychological factors, (4) physiological factors, (5) psychic effects and (6) cultural effects. In a further step they propose a framework for scientific analysis of unidentified phenomena that takes into account the incommensurability problem.



http://www.nidsci.org

 

[Gustav]

battista

I think he is dead wrong to discount ideas/problems such as the psychic, extradimensional characteristics of UFO/alien encounters.

while i do not discount these as possible explanations, i guess i tend to avoid them as i usually focus on objects flying around our neighborhood.

i have not concerned myself with alleged contact (alien/human dialogue)
i have not concerned myself about the method (telepathy/?)
i have not concerned myself about certain historical/mythological figures alleged to be of alien origin.
i have not concerned myself about et being extradimensional in origin
i have not concerned myself about et being of a different time

it is not so much that i am ignorant about these claims but rather that i am not quite adequately aquainted with the various theories and assumptions behind these scenarios

for instance, there are competing cosmological models. what seems viable?
is telepathy a general condition of all humans?
was the progress of humans dictated or influence wholly or in part by aliens? how and why?

i think i am being a bit unreasonable if i halt a thought process from reaching a logical conclusion. for instance, if i were to accept a hypothetical eyewitness account(s) of an alien craft along with some corrorabating evidence such as radar and/or physical factors as a probable instance of et, why stop there if the eyewitness further goes on to claim that et spoke telepatically identifying himself as osiris from another dimension? why should i not also accept this as perhaps provisionally true rather than snickering?

now
i remembered the illustrious ives starting this thread and garnering no comments. lets see what happens this time around

Advocates of UAP reality, on the other hand, generally claim that the Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis (ETH) centered on interstellar travelers from extrasolar systems visiting the Earth remains the most likely explanation for the objects and the entities associated with them. (vallee)

that is more or less my position
do you know of any decent incidents that would force me to consider these alternative explanations.

this is also struck my attention....

No experiment can distinguish between phenomena manifested by visiting interstellar (arbitrarily advanced) ETI and intelligent entities that may exist near Earth within a parallel universe or in different dimensions, or who are (terrestrial) time travelers. (vallee)

like i said before..

multiverses simply add an extra line on et's address. no real biggie

what say you?

 

[Gustav]

vallee/davis

 

[Giambattista]

what say you?

Resurrecting my "elohim" for communion, like the spirit of Samuel?

Whatever that's supposed to mean...

now
i remembered the illustrious ives starting this thread and garnering no comments. lets see what happens this time around

Indeed! Let us see...

I think he is dead wrong to discount ideas/problems such as the psychic, extradimensional characteristics of UFO/alien encounters.

while i do not discount these as possible explanations, i guess i tend to avoid them as i usually focus on objects flying around our neighborhood.

First of all, I posted that statement because I felt you were being unduly foulmouthed toward c7ityi_ (however it's pronounced) and its (who knows what IT is?) ideas. Use some green tea to clean your mouth.
Second of all, and perhaps most importantly, I feel that these Vallee-ish extradimensional ideas are prudent, and may help to explain some of the more bizarre aspects of certain sightings.
As far as flying around the neighborhood, no doubt, it is easier to quantify and to hypothesize about the physical, down-to-earth characteristics than to speculate about motives, mechanisms, and originations. I myself prefer a more concrete approach to the study, not least because it is more capable of yielding some solid evidence that can be examined and recorded for what it is.
Examining the actual origins of these beings involves pretty much hypothesizing on visual sightings and the limited physical evidence available, and it requires, in a real sense, going out on a limb and putting oneself in a vulnerable position.
We both readily recognize how even proposing that the existence of ETs as fact instantly invites ridicule. It can only get worse when one speculates on their nature!

do you know of any decent incidents that would force me to consider these alternative explanations.

I am confident that I can think of some, but this is a little deeper subject than just talking about radar tapes and mutilated carcasses!
Give me a little time, I will come up with some edible materials.

 

[Giambattista]

vallee/davis

Thanks as well for the link. I've always valued Vallee's ideas, though now he has semi-retired from the field of ufology.

I have had a few gripes with him in the past, I will say. He seems very willing to attribute certain things to military projects. If I remember correctly, he believes Bentwaters may have been some kind of mass mind-control project designed to manipulate belief in some way. He had some similar theories about crop-circles, though I believe his notions were just a little far-fetched.

Over all though, he has a pretty reasonable approach to the phenomenon.

 

[Gustav]

Give me a little time, I will come up with some edible materials.

excellent. this aint no fast food forum so take as long as you like (days/weeks/months). i see if i can motivate and read the article

 

[Agitprop]

I think this phenomenon morphs around the culture's perceptions of it, but can also morph around the individual's unique idea of what it is. This is actually not much different than how we, as a culture (or individually) co-create reality...it is ramped up and exaggerated though. There is likely an external consciousness omni-present in thought itself, a watcher in the woods of the collective unconscious.

Ufos act as the universal caricature that drives this point home, through the use of exaggeration. It is the great agent of synchronicity, coincidence, absurdity, intervener in dream and lucid states.

Please forgive me for sounding hopelessly New Age. I know, I want to scream when people ramble on like this too.

Vallee himself is not immune to these effects. As a matter of fact, he describes them well in his books. His original experiences with the phenomenon led him to frame them in such a way, that all of his subsequent experiences were, by virtue of the original frame--confined to it. And rather than Vallee cutting and pasting them in a kind of Procustean effort, to fit his beliefs, many of them were likely pre-cut and pasted for him, by the phenomenon itself. Are ufos a purely multi-dimensional and ethereal form of consciousness or are they predominantely physical, with a strong spiritual component?

Is it wise to avoid anthropomorphism in all cases and always favour other theories? Is the ultimate joke, that we perform all kinds of mental gymnastics in service to the idea that these are not space aliens and they turn out to be?

Will the trickster turn out to be a physical being or group who turned us off the et hypothesis due to it's cartoonish nature? Why, the trickster is actually cartoonish, right? Bugs Bunny etc... How is the trickster represented most commonly in modern culture, and are we missing the point? I don't draw any conclusions, am just aware of the field of possibilities that avail themselves each time a layer appears to be peeled off to reveal a new "truth".

It's probably not possible to undertake a study of an alien intelligence and come up with any kind of reliable information that would shed light on the what, where, why, who, and how. Alien intelligence is an intelligence issue, more suitable for those schooled in deception, who can avoid drawing firm conclusions.

 

[Giambattista]

Dear Agitprop,

I must conclude you are skilled in the school of "trickstery" are you not???

Perhaps this should be YOUR thread? I will peep, though, now and again, just to see.
Alright, I will post some stuff here, very soon, since I only nearly missed making a promise to Mr. Gustav. He works hard for it!

Don't you go anywhere, Agitprop. You sound as if you have the capacity for revelation.
You are a thread all your own!

 

[Giambattista]

Is it wise to avoid anthropomorphism in all cases and always favour other theories? Is the ultimate joke, that we perform all kinds of mental gymnastics in service to the idea that these are not space aliens and they turn out to be?

The joke is, we are supposed to laugh? Are we doing enough of it?

 

[Giambattista]

Anyone: who is Ives? And if so, what happened to it? It's been a long time, you know.

 

[Giambattista]

Anyone? Ives??? Anyone?

 

[duendy]

how could NOone have answered Ives' original thread starter for ALL those YEARS Pa....? ?
aye laaad, that were in theday when the pathologicalskepicoruses roamed roun' 'ere

things is lookin better now. ahhhhh, now we can exxxxploooooreeeeee (hair blowin in the wind)

 

[Giambattista]

how could NOone have answered Ives' original thread starter for ALL those YEARS Pa....? ?
aye laaad, that were in theday when the pathologicalskepicoruses roamed roun' 'ere

things is lookin better now. ahhhhh, now we can exxxxploooooreeeeee (hair blowin in the wind)

Dear Duendy,

Aren't you just the special one?

 

[Giambattista]

Well, we will certainly discuss, without all the dead corpses walking round, won't we?

The have a certain stench. Awful to behold.

 

[Giambattista]

Yes. I'm still going to put some cases forth.

What do you have to say to that? Eh, Duendy? Know any cases?

What have you. I await the monstrosity. Don't we all?

 

[duendy]

okkkkkkkk
i like what someone suggested about the Tricksterish nature of a alot(?) of reported encounteres with ---'entities' and their 'craft', or justr latter...(?)

some skeptics usually use this as an argument AGAINST any serious considerations. example'whyyy would they travel light years only totake samples of earth, ...? etc etc

now, can we--the ones who will even listen to this next plea--keep in mind that we are encapsulated in a 'matrix'. whatmatrix? the matrix of materialistic philosophica; belief and thinking. to begin what this might MEAN, and what its dynamics might mean. what does suppression of NOT-that mean. get me?....whatis 'not-that'?

i call it our much deeper being. theone that is being mindcontrolled by te ...matrix. can yu seee it? no? but it is there. look!

so that.

now listen to this --its from a transcript from a docu. about UFOs and abductions:

"Erik Julien is a retired pilot and air traffic controller who claims to have had a series of ET abduction experiences: You need to be extremely stable psychologically speaking to be both a pilot and an air traffic controller"-------------He claims to also have had ET contact and who have given him a clar understanding of teir technology: "The use of our scientific tools is limited to material space and reality and that's precisely why it is so difficult for us to understand the behaviour of extraterrestrials."

Discuss

 

[Agitprop]

Giambattista, Thanks for compliment. I'll stay with the thread and put in my 2 cents worth.

Duendy, Interesting comments. Gustav too.

The ufo phenomena and so called alien abductions may be linked or maybe not, or they may be linked in a way that we are presently unfamiliar with.

I'm very interested in the validation of some New Age fascistic beliefs that some of this stuff engenders, be it by "their" design, or by simple-minded human religiosity. The debunking institutions stance on the potential for cults forming around the phenomenon has not born out, aside from Bo and Peep. (asteroid, suicides, remember?) But there is so much potential for the creation of master race theology or a revitalization of it, that there is great cause for concern, should the subject lose it's present protective veneer of absurdity, enhanced by govt and "scientific" investigators of the paranormal, together with a compliant media.

 

[Gustav]

Anyone: who is Ives? And if so, what happened to it? It's been a long time, you know.

kidding, ja? whats there to know? his posts remain archived for anyone to access. i am sure he is no one special. just like the rest of us

 

[Agitprop]

I think I know who Ives is, as a matter of fact am quite sure-- and confident you will be very aware of him in the future. BTW--I'm not Ives.

 

[duendy]

yeah Agitprop....this subect is a mindzaper. it CAn ome at ya from different angles, depending on what you reseacrch

ie., you got the man-made angle. tis idea i part of the Conspiracy theory tat there is a secret HUMAn elite tat has gotten to know advanced techno. but wont tell, and also isin cntact wit ETs
And tat this will involve the orpaganda and 'event' of the final 'Enemy'---a staged 'alien' invasion which will cause global trauma and be prerequite for world domination

but tere is also the actuality of very strange odd abducxtions, of craft seen in past times, and even by Indigenous peoples etc.

i am seeing the situation like tis. MK ULTRA thought it could propagate LSD so as to mindcontrol teir own and te people so as to stop disent. but it backfired. this to me means that the problem isnot wheth tere is something WEIRD, but it is a conflict between mindcontrol and freedom