So you dont count religious people as individuals. they are all the same person?. Does not each man do bad and good. religious or not.
Peace.
In your opinion, who are the most interesting gods?
- Thread starter Oniw17
- Start date
So you dont count religious people as individuals. they are all the same person?. Does not each man do bad and good. religious or not.
Peace.
Yes, anyone can lie, but the religious excel at it.
Here's a breather for you—another fish story of an interesting God to some:
Here's a breather for you—another fish story of an interesting God to some:
The Intelligent Designer
I approached a semitransparent
Theistic Embellishment, rather well lit,
Who was holding out an eyeball—a shove
Of His hand for me to take note of.
“Who might you be?” He proclaimed,
“For I am the God of Intelligent Design,
The One who was made by the signs discerned
When the creationists noted them all unlearned.
“Lo, They saw inexplicable complexity in Nature,
And, thus, they leapt and promulgated that Nature
Must have a Grand Designer of its mechanical dance,
For how could life have come about by chance?”
I replied, “You’re right about chance’s stance,
But wrong about chance, too, for little greatness,
If any at all, comes about by mere chance,
Especially as some giant leap in one bound
Up the sheer cliff-side of Mt. Improbable—
“To find on its top a great complexity
Of something like the eye that You show me;
However, it is actually an error to suppose
That Chance is the scientific alternative
To Intelligent Design, for that’s quite negative.
“Natural Selection is the means of the design,
For it, unlike a one-shot chance, being not in kind,
Is a cumulative effect that ever winds
And slowly and so gently climbs
Around the mountain’s other side, behind the sight,
To eventually arrive at the great height
Of complexity—from which we can then view
The beautiful sights through our eye anew.”
“But the widespread Watchtower Zines
Always pronounce that the biological Designs
Were created by Me instead of by chance!
“Just look at these eyeballs—take a glance—
And the optic system hanging behind them!
How could that come about by chance, these gems?”
“You, like your followers, may listen,
But You do not hear, writing with untruth’s pen.
IDers deceive by this wrong approach,
Whether they mean to or not; I give reproach.
“Chance is not the opposite of Nature’s design;
Evolution of the Species through the graduality
Of Natural Selection is the path to complexity;
Your ploy falls as flat as an imaginary line.
“A flatworm has but an optical system’s spark
That can only sense but light and dark;
Thus, it sees no image, not even a part;
“Whereas, Nautilus has a ‘pinhole camera’ eye
About as good as half a human eye
That sees but very blurry shapes;
Thus they are examples of intermediate stages.
“‘Rome’ can not be built in a day by chance;
Chance is not a likely designer at all!
Really now, could a 747 ever be
Assembled by a hurricane blowing free
Through Boeing’s warehouse of all the parts?
Now is this the sum of Your conversational art?”
“No, Austin—it’s quite unlikely—’tis just to confuse,
And that’s why we always so misleadingly use
This 747 argument as the contrast to ID…
So, then, Austie, chance and Intelligent Design
Are not the two candidate solutions we’ll find
To the riddle posed by the improbable?
It’s not like a jackpot or nothing at all?”
“‘God’, Your ID ideas persist, as repetition,
But, again, chance, for one, is not a solution
To the highly improbable situated Nature,
And no sane anti-creationist, for sure,
Ever said that it was; your tale is impure.
“Intelligent Design, is neither, a solution—
Because it raises a much bigger question
Than it solves, as You will soon see, in a lesson.”
“Well, I’ll be darned,” replied the Designer.
“Natural selection is a good answer;
It is a very long and summative process,
One which breaks up the problem’s mess
Of improbability into smaller pieces, less,
Each of which is only slightly improbable,
But not prohibitively so, thus it’s reasonable
As the product of all the little steps, of which,
Would be far beyond the reach of chance—it’s rich!
“The creationists have been looking askance,
Seeing only the end product, perchance,
Thinking of it as a single event of chance,
Never even understanding
The great power of accumulation.
“Such they didn’t know much else—their fall,
Not having any other natural ideas at all,
So, they outright claimed that ID did it, as the Tree
That can magically grow the All, namely Me.”
“So, ‘God’, You have now seen the light
Of the accumulative power’s might;
This is the elegance of Evolution’s ‘sight’.”
“Yes, but what is to become of Me, the Person,
For I only ‘exist’ through their speculation.
In fact, the improbability of Me is so High,
And so much more so from where I lie so ‘sure’,
Compared to that of ‘simple’ Nature,
That My own origin…”
“…Is a near-infinitely LARGER dilemma, Mate,
For the creationists—the problem that they love to hate;
That being that You, therefore, can only be explained
By another, Higher Intelligent Designer claimed.
“Far from terminating the endless regress,
They’ve aggravated it with a vengeance
That is way beyond repair or redress—
As beyond could ever be yonder of! Out west!”
With that, the poor Guy faded toward oblivion,
Which, remarkably, which was the very location
I was visiting, but, hence he soon reappeared,
Although in another guise, but quite well attired:
[God created Adam, then Eve, of Adam’s rib,
Both fully formed, imbued with God’s knowledge
And memories of times that never were,
Such as childhood.
They believed a shifty talking snake,
Ate the verboten fruit,
And were cast out, to fend for themselves,
God being quite surprised at their sin…]
I approached a semitransparent
Theistic Embellishment, rather well lit,
Who was holding out an eyeball—a shove
Of His hand for me to take note of.
“Who might you be?” He proclaimed,
“For I am the God of Intelligent Design,
The One who was made by the signs discerned
When the creationists noted them all unlearned.
“Lo, They saw inexplicable complexity in Nature,
And, thus, they leapt and promulgated that Nature
Must have a Grand Designer of its mechanical dance,
For how could life have come about by chance?”
I replied, “You’re right about chance’s stance,
But wrong about chance, too, for little greatness,
If any at all, comes about by mere chance,
Especially as some giant leap in one bound
Up the sheer cliff-side of Mt. Improbable—
“To find on its top a great complexity
Of something like the eye that You show me;
However, it is actually an error to suppose
That Chance is the scientific alternative
To Intelligent Design, for that’s quite negative.
“Natural Selection is the means of the design,
For it, unlike a one-shot chance, being not in kind,
Is a cumulative effect that ever winds
And slowly and so gently climbs
Around the mountain’s other side, behind the sight,
To eventually arrive at the great height
Of complexity—from which we can then view
The beautiful sights through our eye anew.”
“But the widespread Watchtower Zines
Always pronounce that the biological Designs
Were created by Me instead of by chance!
“Just look at these eyeballs—take a glance—
And the optic system hanging behind them!
How could that come about by chance, these gems?”
“You, like your followers, may listen,
But You do not hear, writing with untruth’s pen.
IDers deceive by this wrong approach,
Whether they mean to or not; I give reproach.
“Chance is not the opposite of Nature’s design;
Evolution of the Species through the graduality
Of Natural Selection is the path to complexity;
Your ploy falls as flat as an imaginary line.
“A flatworm has but an optical system’s spark
That can only sense but light and dark;
Thus, it sees no image, not even a part;
“Whereas, Nautilus has a ‘pinhole camera’ eye
About as good as half a human eye
That sees but very blurry shapes;
Thus they are examples of intermediate stages.
“‘Rome’ can not be built in a day by chance;
Chance is not a likely designer at all!
Really now, could a 747 ever be
Assembled by a hurricane blowing free
Through Boeing’s warehouse of all the parts?
Now is this the sum of Your conversational art?”
“No, Austin—it’s quite unlikely—’tis just to confuse,
And that’s why we always so misleadingly use
This 747 argument as the contrast to ID…
So, then, Austie, chance and Intelligent Design
Are not the two candidate solutions we’ll find
To the riddle posed by the improbable?
It’s not like a jackpot or nothing at all?”
“‘God’, Your ID ideas persist, as repetition,
But, again, chance, for one, is not a solution
To the highly improbable situated Nature,
And no sane anti-creationist, for sure,
Ever said that it was; your tale is impure.
“Intelligent Design, is neither, a solution—
Because it raises a much bigger question
Than it solves, as You will soon see, in a lesson.”
“Well, I’ll be darned,” replied the Designer.
“Natural selection is a good answer;
It is a very long and summative process,
One which breaks up the problem’s mess
Of improbability into smaller pieces, less,
Each of which is only slightly improbable,
But not prohibitively so, thus it’s reasonable
As the product of all the little steps, of which,
Would be far beyond the reach of chance—it’s rich!
“The creationists have been looking askance,
Seeing only the end product, perchance,
Thinking of it as a single event of chance,
Never even understanding
The great power of accumulation.
“Such they didn’t know much else—their fall,
Not having any other natural ideas at all,
So, they outright claimed that ID did it, as the Tree
That can magically grow the All, namely Me.”
“So, ‘God’, You have now seen the light
Of the accumulative power’s might;
This is the elegance of Evolution’s ‘sight’.”
“Yes, but what is to become of Me, the Person,
For I only ‘exist’ through their speculation.
In fact, the improbability of Me is so High,
And so much more so from where I lie so ‘sure’,
Compared to that of ‘simple’ Nature,
That My own origin…”
“…Is a near-infinitely LARGER dilemma, Mate,
For the creationists—the problem that they love to hate;
That being that You, therefore, can only be explained
By another, Higher Intelligent Designer claimed.
“Far from terminating the endless regress,
They’ve aggravated it with a vengeance
That is way beyond repair or redress—
As beyond could ever be yonder of! Out west!”
With that, the poor Guy faded toward oblivion,
Which, remarkably, which was the very location
I was visiting, but, hence he soon reappeared,
Although in another guise, but quite well attired:
[God created Adam, then Eve, of Adam’s rib,
Both fully formed, imbued with God’s knowledge
And memories of times that never were,
Such as childhood.
They believed a shifty talking snake,
Ate the verboten fruit,
And were cast out, to fend for themselves,
God being quite surprised at their sin…]
Uh, oh, another imposter…
The God of Irreducible Complexity
“Hello, Austino, it’s time for more perplexity;
For I am now the God of Irreducible Complexity.”
“That you are, being the unmade All,
And so it shall become your downfall.”
“Eh? I’m never to be at all?”
“Your believers have given You some fine new clothes:
But, Intelligent Design is falsely based, God knows,
On Irreducible Complexity—
So I still recognize You as the God of ID.”
“That I am is what I really am now.”
“Well, Darwin said long ago that his theory
Would break down if Irreducible Complexity
Were shown to be true, and, yet,
No proposal has ever stood up to the analysis.”
“Still, here I am, Mr. A, alive merely by possibility,
Myself indeed quite complex, even irreducibly,
For I am the be all and end all—the Prime Maker,
And so I keep tabs on every form and splinter
Of the Universe, planning its every constituent
That I designed. So, then, simple I am NOT.
Yes, man, I am an extremely complicated System,
Yet I have no parts, for then My parts that stemmed
Would be even more fundamental than Me!”
“Yes, ‘God’, if You existed you would surely be
Very very very complex, irreducibly so…”
“…So…”
“…So, by the Creationist Theory, such as it must be,
You cannot be explained except by a larger ID.”
“I’m falling…”
“…Into the hole that they dug for you.”
“Hello, Austino, it’s time for more perplexity;
For I am now the God of Irreducible Complexity.”
“That you are, being the unmade All,
And so it shall become your downfall.”
“Eh? I’m never to be at all?”
“Your believers have given You some fine new clothes:
But, Intelligent Design is falsely based, God knows,
On Irreducible Complexity—
So I still recognize You as the God of ID.”
“That I am is what I really am now.”
“Well, Darwin said long ago that his theory
Would break down if Irreducible Complexity
Were shown to be true, and, yet,
No proposal has ever stood up to the analysis.”
“Still, here I am, Mr. A, alive merely by possibility,
Myself indeed quite complex, even irreducibly,
For I am the be all and end all—the Prime Maker,
And so I keep tabs on every form and splinter
Of the Universe, planning its every constituent
That I designed. So, then, simple I am NOT.
Yes, man, I am an extremely complicated System,
Yet I have no parts, for then My parts that stemmed
Would be even more fundamental than Me!”
“Yes, ‘God’, if You existed you would surely be
Very very very complex, irreducibly so…”
“…So…”
“…So, by the Creationist Theory, such as it must be,
You cannot be explained except by a larger ID.”
“I’m falling…”
“…Into the hole that they dug for you.”
Personally I find the serpent lords Enki and his son most interesting. Their symbol was two serpents intertwined around the "Tree of Life" or the caduceus symbol used to represent modern medicine.
They were scientists and Enki created humans gave them knowledge; taught them things; Enki and his son helped Ziusurda build a submersible craft to survive the Deluge; they introduced the calendar systems in Nippur (now called the Jewish Calendar), Egypt and Meso-America, and generally did things to benefits humans, instead of bossing them around and murdering them.
They were scientists and Enki created humans gave them knowledge; taught them things; Enki and his son helped Ziusurda build a submersible craft to survive the Deluge; they introduced the calendar systems in Nippur (now called the Jewish Calendar), Egypt and Meso-America, and generally did things to benefits humans, instead of bossing them around and murdering them.
Those Are Interesting Tablets. I Have read the epic of Gilgamesh more than a few times simply for entertainment.
Peace.
The next Guy:
The God of the Gaps
Yet another Theity appeared, out of the mist.
“I am the God of the Gaps, of all those missed.
I Myself personally fill in all the gaps withstanding
In the present-day knowledge of non understanding,
Albeit a very large and unwarranted assumption,
But I surely do fill them all in—via the fiat lent
To Me by the creationist’s fine endorsement.”
“These gaps shrink as science advances anew.”
“And so there is less and less for Me to do.”
“What worries me is not so much that You
May be eventually laid off, having nothing to do,
But that those of Religion think it is a virtue
To be satisfied with not understanding a quandary;
Enigmas drive scientists on—they exult in mystery.”
“True, My believers exult in mystery
Remaining as mystery,
And so they go no further,
But, it keeps Me from being history!
They worship all these evolutionary gaps as being Me.”
“With no justification?”
“We have a ‘get out of jail free’ card—a vocation;
It’s an immunity to the rigorous proofs of science;
We just claim by the ‘say so’.
All must respect that stance.”
“You lead a charmed life, then, one with no faults,
But You seek ignorance in order
To claim victory by default,
As a weed thriving in the gaps
Of science’s fertile fields.
Scientists rejoice in (temporary)
Uncertain yields,
Whereas You halt all inquiry.”
“I remain as a mystery.”
“You’re the same God
Of Intelligent Design assumed—
Now known by a much more
Desperate nom de plume.”
“I repeat that I intervene
To fill the evolutionary gap.
I even alter DNA.”
(We could check the evidence for that.)
“We researchers fill the gaps in the fossil record.”
“Then there are twice as many gaps. Absurd.”
“I’d laugh, but I know You’re not joking.”
“No joke. Try what we’ve been smoking.
Lack of 100% complete documentation
Of Evolution means that I aid its motion.”
“‘God’, that is not a good default stance.”
“It’s an unknown happenstance.”
“So, do we let criminals go
Because we don’t have a video
Of their every intermediate foot step
To and from the lawless event?”
“No, of course not, but we now have great worry
About our precariously perched gappy theory.
Also, you made a typo—it’s a God default stance,
Certified by nothing more than proclamation
Of Our Bull of Decree covering all instantiation.”
“An edict, huh.”
“Why not, duh.”
“It was also once avowed that an Evil Spirit,
One that You Yourself allowed to exist,
Produced physical illnesses, on us weighing,
But, thank God—just an old saying—
That scientists persevered, and still do,
Such as finding out about the immune system’s zoo—
Our defense against the non evil spirits
Of germs, viruses, and bacterial fits.”
“Yes, agreed; that claim was dead wrong; take pills,
But evil spirits still cause the nonphysical mental ills
That are called sins and bad thoughts,
Even crimes of wills.”
“Still trying to halt scientific inquiry,
I see, for the burning.
Mental lapsing ‘sins’
Stem from upbringing, wrong learning,
And/or low serotonin and
Such imbalances, needing cures,
Not to mention the many differences in cultures,
Such as other religions being a problem of stability,
For people think this undermines
Their own belief’s credibility.”
“Okay, I give up for now, AustinTorn. Be.
Go on with your work, with My blessing,
To discover important truths about reality,
But some fossils are evidently missing!”
“Only a tiny fraction of corpses fossilize;
However, not even a single fossil guy
Has shown up in the wrong geological stratum;
How’s that for absolutely no erratum?”
“Well… it’s sad for Me, but true.
I’d still love to find wrong a few,
Like a fossil rabbit in the Precambrian.
I’d have planted one there if I exited then.”
“Dream on. Lazy reasoning is all that’s behind
These declarations of the irreducible complexity kind.”
“Yes, but all this ignorance, for sure,
Of the possible steps of Nature
Has kept Me forever alive,
Allowing Me to ever thrive.”
“And has just as soon forgotten You, in truth,
But for those sustaining your being without proof.”
“Wait, what about an arch of bricks?
(I’ll try to use this one as a trick.)
Pull one away and the arch falls apart;
It cannot survive the subtraction of a part,
So, how, then, was it built in the first place?
With this insight I can win the human race.”
“By scaffolding, the same as seen in Evolution.”
“I was afraid that would be the solution.”
With that, the holely God of the Gaps separated
And nearly evaporated
To become a discontinuity Himself,
But the creationists gave Him help
By Holding Him together
With their last ditch effort.
Yet another Theity appeared, out of the mist.
“I am the God of the Gaps, of all those missed.
I Myself personally fill in all the gaps withstanding
In the present-day knowledge of non understanding,
Albeit a very large and unwarranted assumption,
But I surely do fill them all in—via the fiat lent
To Me by the creationist’s fine endorsement.”
“These gaps shrink as science advances anew.”
“And so there is less and less for Me to do.”
“What worries me is not so much that You
May be eventually laid off, having nothing to do,
But that those of Religion think it is a virtue
To be satisfied with not understanding a quandary;
Enigmas drive scientists on—they exult in mystery.”
“True, My believers exult in mystery
Remaining as mystery,
And so they go no further,
But, it keeps Me from being history!
They worship all these evolutionary gaps as being Me.”
“With no justification?”
“We have a ‘get out of jail free’ card—a vocation;
It’s an immunity to the rigorous proofs of science;
We just claim by the ‘say so’.
All must respect that stance.”
“You lead a charmed life, then, one with no faults,
But You seek ignorance in order
To claim victory by default,
As a weed thriving in the gaps
Of science’s fertile fields.
Scientists rejoice in (temporary)
Uncertain yields,
Whereas You halt all inquiry.”
“I remain as a mystery.”
“You’re the same God
Of Intelligent Design assumed—
Now known by a much more
Desperate nom de plume.”
“I repeat that I intervene
To fill the evolutionary gap.
I even alter DNA.”
(We could check the evidence for that.)
“We researchers fill the gaps in the fossil record.”
“Then there are twice as many gaps. Absurd.”
“I’d laugh, but I know You’re not joking.”
“No joke. Try what we’ve been smoking.
Lack of 100% complete documentation
Of Evolution means that I aid its motion.”
“‘God’, that is not a good default stance.”
“It’s an unknown happenstance.”
“So, do we let criminals go
Because we don’t have a video
Of their every intermediate foot step
To and from the lawless event?”
“No, of course not, but we now have great worry
About our precariously perched gappy theory.
Also, you made a typo—it’s a God default stance,
Certified by nothing more than proclamation
Of Our Bull of Decree covering all instantiation.”
“An edict, huh.”
“Why not, duh.”
“It was also once avowed that an Evil Spirit,
One that You Yourself allowed to exist,
Produced physical illnesses, on us weighing,
But, thank God—just an old saying—
That scientists persevered, and still do,
Such as finding out about the immune system’s zoo—
Our defense against the non evil spirits
Of germs, viruses, and bacterial fits.”
“Yes, agreed; that claim was dead wrong; take pills,
But evil spirits still cause the nonphysical mental ills
That are called sins and bad thoughts,
Even crimes of wills.”
“Still trying to halt scientific inquiry,
I see, for the burning.
Mental lapsing ‘sins’
Stem from upbringing, wrong learning,
And/or low serotonin and
Such imbalances, needing cures,
Not to mention the many differences in cultures,
Such as other religions being a problem of stability,
For people think this undermines
Their own belief’s credibility.”
“Okay, I give up for now, AustinTorn. Be.
Go on with your work, with My blessing,
To discover important truths about reality,
But some fossils are evidently missing!”
“Only a tiny fraction of corpses fossilize;
However, not even a single fossil guy
Has shown up in the wrong geological stratum;
How’s that for absolutely no erratum?”
“Well… it’s sad for Me, but true.
I’d still love to find wrong a few,
Like a fossil rabbit in the Precambrian.
I’d have planted one there if I exited then.”
“Dream on. Lazy reasoning is all that’s behind
These declarations of the irreducible complexity kind.”
“Yes, but all this ignorance, for sure,
Of the possible steps of Nature
Has kept Me forever alive,
Allowing Me to ever thrive.”
“And has just as soon forgotten You, in truth,
But for those sustaining your being without proof.”
“Wait, what about an arch of bricks?
(I’ll try to use this one as a trick.)
Pull one away and the arch falls apart;
It cannot survive the subtraction of a part,
So, how, then, was it built in the first place?
With this insight I can win the human race.”
“By scaffolding, the same as seen in Evolution.”
“I was afraid that would be the solution.”
With that, the holely God of the Gaps separated
And nearly evaporated
To become a discontinuity Himself,
But the creationists gave Him help
By Holding Him together
With their last ditch effort.
To bring the thread back on topic: Generally I find the polytheistic deities of classical antiquity and similar paganisms to be quite uninteresting. They're usually just people with fancy superpowers -- like old comic books. Monotheisms and dualisms have more depth, because their gods at least seem a little greater than a fairy tale.
That said, some of the pagan mythologies are also really nice epic fantasy with quite vivid imagery and interesting character and story concepts. In that category I would list the descent of Ishtar into the underworld from Assyria.
That said, some of the pagan mythologies are also really nice epic fantasy with quite vivid imagery and interesting character and story concepts. In that category I would list the descent of Ishtar into the underworld from Assyria.
You can't see him when he's there, when he's in his office. I've tried. Several times. Yes, indeed, you can see him, when he isn't there. That is, he'll see you, all right, but only in his office, and only when he's not there. The other times, when he's in he's not there to be seen. Except when he's out.
Yes, and some figure that this Agnostic God's 'there' or 'not there' states are equi-probable positions, but they aren't at all. In practical, everyday life, one does not go both ways about this dilemma, but decides rather quickly, for one can hardly fake it half the time and fully go for its truth the other half of the time. Caught in the lurch, they might not go to church, etc. To really actually sit on a fence of this quandary would be quite uncomfortable. Most agnostics, then, don't believe but would someday if firm proof came along, as I guess, would anyone.
Thinkaboutit
Registered Member
Not the one in the bible (book of BS) in my opinion there's only one interesting god. My god the one I believe in
The Elder Gods from the primordial past generation of stars.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
The Seth and Horus epic
No, that's a significantly less specific question. And the obvious answer is Dostoyevsky.