In the Beginning was God

[peta9]

It always amazes me people refer to one creator and assume it is perfect or even moral. It is quite amazing when this universe is shockingly the opposite. I see the universe as an accident and more than likely a result of a collision of at least two different universes, perhaps even polar opposites that are not even meant to be. The fact that life exists only in certain parameters, there is death and it is fleeting gives suspicion. It's very possible that there may be a universe where there is no death but only life etc. The nature of what we know is limited from what we experience and the laws that we work with. Yet, these laws could have been completely different or could have evolved differently meaning I think we exist in a temporary universe and are fragments on borrowed time. Our bodies and minds are merely structures of this temporary universe but it could possibly be not the true form or integrity. I definitely don't think that if there is a creator of this universe, it is just one. I see it as a collision of other creations or forces both postive and negative. Physics as we know it literally a result of the hodgepodge of this big bang or collision, even possibly or more than likely could be called an ACCIDENT. That our consciousness forms around and works with the world we find ourself in. That in many ways life here is an abomination because of the mixture of good, evil, imperfection and the impurity. Maybe this is the edge or the wall of the stuff we are made of. Maybe the universe is like an ectopic pregnancy. Everything in my being tells from all my senses this place was the least intentional if there ever was one.

 

[SnakeLord]

We have yet to find life elsewhere in our solar system.

Kindly define what you mean here. Do you mean the bipedal type that look just like us, (or klingons), or any life?

I simply ask because I am curious what would satisfy people. If the simplest of life forms were found, how many theists would bat an eyelid? Seems nobody will be satisfied until we find an alien lifeform that speaks back.

 

[genep]

In the beginning was the WORD - NOT god.

....

Don't know if that makes sense or not. Discuss.

There is nothing to discuss. In the beginning was the WORD, language, and a hell of a lot later came the word "god," and a hell of a lot longer, after the Dark Ages, came the word "universe."

If anything the word, language, created god and the universe and NOT the word god.

To put is simply: language, like the bible, is making-up/creating god and the universe, as it goes along.

I -- of all people -- should know because I know I'm braindead, and yet I understand how in the beginning was the WORD and a lot lot later one of these words was "god."

-- Braindead

 

[mybreathyourlung]

Kindly define what you mean here. Do you mean the bipedal type that look just like us, (or klingons), or any life?

I simply ask because I am curious what would satisfy people. If the simplest of life forms were found, how many theists would bat an eyelid? Seems nobody will be satisfied until we find an alien lifeform that speaks back.

I would bat an eyelid. Every capable person on Earth should because that would be a great discovery, no matter how small.

I certainly think life on our planet is special and made with a purpose, but I certainly don't think we're the only planet in the entire Universe with life.

It would be incredibly naive to think that out of all the solar systems in the possibly infinite Universe that we're the only planet capable of sustaining life.

 

[peta9]

I would bat an eyelid. Every capable person on Earth should because that would be a great discovery, no matter how small.

I certainly think life on our planet is special and made with a purpose, but I certainly don't think we're the only planet in the entire Universe with life.

It would be incredibly naive to think that out of all the solar systems in the possibly infinite Universe that we're the only planet capable of sustaining life.

Haha.. special and made with a purpose?? Yeah, I'm sure that's why a random flying rock crashed into the planet obliterating life on it. It's highly unlikely we would be here if it weren't for chance.

Oh yeah, "special", "purpose", "infinite" How quaint, fixed, and assured you are of your existence and importance when humans still don't know what their damn purpose is except 'why the fuck am I here?'

 

[mybreathyourlung]

Haha.. special and made with a purpose?? Yeah, I'm sure that's why a random flying rock crashed into the planet obliterating life on it. It's highly unlikely we would be here if it weren't for chance.

Oh yeah, "special", "purpose", "infinite" How quaint, fixed, and assured you are of your existence and importance when humans still don't know what their damn purpose is except 'why the fuck am I here?'

I would totally agree with you if it made sense to.

Like you said, asteroids crashing into the earth, destorying life. A planet forming at 4000 degrees C with an atmosphere of carbon dioxide, methane and ammonia. Before that, it was only gasses and elements, floating in space from the Big Bang.

Then, BAM!!! Somehow, in spite of our planet being 100% lifeless and containing only inorganic material, life began at the smallest bacterial level.

Wow. Chance.

Listen, if you can tell me how conscious, animated, organic life came into existence from a lifeless, barren planet without using the words "chance", "random", or "luck", then you friend, should quit your day job.

The problem here, is that you can't. Noone can because it didn't happen. It doesn't even make sense to entertain the idea that it did because it goes against all logic. Life does not simply just come into existence.

So please don't reply with anything other than your answer to my question because apparently I'm wrong with saying that it's impossible life "just happened" so therefore you must be able to tell me why I'm wrong. If not, then you're really in no place to decide what is right and wrong.

 

[Sarkus]

The problem here, is that you can't. Noone can because it didn't happen. It doesn't even make sense to entertain the idea that it did because it goes against all logic. Life does not simply just come into existence.

How does it go "against all logic"?

You are another equating a current inability to reproduce abiogenesis in the lab with apparent proof that it couldn't have possibly happened. Pathetic.

And instead you'd rather believe that someone came along and just went "Abracadabra!"?!

By YOUR logic - you can not prove it therefore it couldn't have happened!!
See how ridiculous your position is in this?

No - you probably don't.

 

[mybreathyourlung]

How does it go "against all logic"?

I'm not going to re-explain myself.

You are another equating a current inability to reproduce abiogenesis in the lab with apparent proof that it couldn't have possibly happened. Pathetic.

So science is only worth something to you if it follows your own opinions? To you, science is the measure of all things, unless of course it deviates from your ideal. That is pathetic.

And instead you'd rather believe that someone came along and just went "Abracadabra!"?!

I'd rather believe that than something blatantly ignorant like life appearing out of nowhere.

By YOUR logic - you can not prove it therefore it couldn't have happened!!
See how ridiculous your position is in this?

Science cannot prove otherwise as well, so I guess we're both in the shithead boat.

No - you probably don't.

Ditto.

 

[Sarkus]

I'm not going to re-explain myself.

I don't think you've actually explained it originally.

So science is only worth something to you if it follows your own opinions?

Where did I imply that? Or is it you merely misunderstanding what science is, and what position one takes with scientific theory and hypothesis?
Or are you dishonestly trying to put words in my mouth and argue against points I never made? We call them "Strawmen fallacies".

Science doesn't give two turds what my opinions are.
It doesn't care what ANYONE's opinions are.
That's like saying a hammer cares what its wielder does with it.

To you, science is the measure of all things, unless of course it deviates from your ideal.

No - science is the best tool we have for garnering an understanding.

That is pathetic.

I guess to you it would be when you fail to comprehend that which you talk about.

I'd rather believe that than something blatantly ignorant like life appearing out of nowhere.

1. Why is it "blatantly ignorant"? What is your rationale for stating so?
2. You'd rather be irrational than saying "I don't know"? Wow - speaks volumes, doesn't it.

Science cannot prove otherwise as well, so I guess we're both in the shithead boat.

You are still taking the CURRENT INABILITY as being an absolute CANNOT. Fallacious.

You appear to be no different to a number of outspoken theists on this site that truly do not have a real concept of rationality, logic or science, and yet are quite happy to display that ignorance with every sentence you type.

 

[SnakeLord]

I would bat an eyelid. Every capable person on Earth should because that would be a great discovery, no matter how small.

I wonder perhaps if you remember the finding of microbes in martian rock during the time of Clinton which featured in 'Science'. ( http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/marslife.html ).

Few people really even cared.

I certainly think life on our planet is special and made with a purpose

Special and made heh? Why?

 

[mybreathyourlung]

You are right. I am taking a 'current inability' as an absolute 'cannot' and I was wrong to do that.

I still find it highly improbable that the artificial creation of organic life out of inanimate matter is possible, and that even though it's ridiculious of me to believe in such a thing as a "God", I still hold that to be the answer to the question of a cause.

I've had my fill of this discussion today.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

one quick note I don't really understand... People look at this situation:

We are just the right distance from the sun, just the right amount of oxygen in our atmosphere, just the right...everything to suit our particular needs as human beings to live.

Now, most theists interpret this to mean the earth was created perfectly to fit our needs like this, and the tiny possibility of these "perfect" conditions is so small that it proves there must be a god that created it all perfectly.

But how come nobody sees that it as just as likely, and in my view more likely, that life adapted to the situation on eary to fit perfectly. We became perfect for our environment. After all, most people wouln't consider volcanic ocean vents an ideal environment, yet certain creatures thrive there because they have fit the environment. There may be aliens from another planet to whom oxygen is deadly poison and they thrive in a freezing cold wasteland or sulphur-filled volcanic planet.

My point is, when seeing how our environment is perfectly tailored to us, just think that instead of god creating the environemnt perfectly to match us, we evolved with specific needs to fit the environment. Just read up on volcanic ocean vents and you will see that there really is no "ideal" condition that creates life, rather the conditions influence what kind of life will come about.

Althought you are right about how life can adapt to certain conditions, you are not taking something in consideration.
Why are humans here in this planet? I cannot answer the question, but the answer is the same to this other question: "Why is there life in this planet?". Same answer.

There is something some of us call as the "Divine plan", the divine plan is that plan that originated life in this planet, and created humans. I believe the questions we should ask ourselves is: "Are we following the divine plan?", "What is the divine plan for us?".

You say the world was created with scientific concepts, but how do science explain life itself? What is the difference between a dead body and a living one? The difference is something that you cannot see, or prove. You can see organs moving, like the heart, but how do you make the heart move? We are just observers, not creators. We tend to think we are creators, saying that science can prove everything existent, but that is an ilussion.

 

[Imheretopwnyou]

This is Silly

Before it was stated if i can't see it, or prove it then a giant evil spaghetti monster can't exist, well guess what, you can't see or prove God guess he doesn't exist either.

We can generate life we've actually been doing it and creating new life forms that do different tasks then their predecessors. Here is a link for you so you can see it for yourself. I'm not allowed to post a link yet because i haven't argued enough yet so please message me i'll send it to you if you're curious enough about it my aim is Gestates836

There are billions upon billions of planets in our solar system, yet the bible tells us of only the earth sun and moon, what happened to the other ones? was he like nah forget it i don't want to even tell you about those, in a few thousand years you'll be so smart you'll find it yourself, don't think so seeing he found it necessary to tell us everything else that happened when he created the earth moon and sun.

Now you continue to believe the bible thats all swell and dandy, but the bible was written by man, not god, because god would know that the planet is a sphere but rather the word of "god" hints that the planet is actual a 2 dimensional flat object kind of like a plate or CD. Oops must of been another blunder by the omniscient creator of everything.

Now you say it is improbable for chance to occur? What are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet people win it...strange how a person can be struck by lightning twice before they win the lottery but yet still people win it without ever being obliterated by a giant bolt of heated electrons.

God created only 1 earth with life on it according to you creationists. So what if life is discovered on a moon of Jupiter, or what if we discover that life once existed on mars? What do you say about your god than? He must have forgotten to include that in the bible too, since he is all knowing he must of been like i'll tell them everything else they want to know except that there are other planets and that life does/did exist on them. Seriously? if life is discovered on other planets all theists and creationists are gone, religion will fail, and peace can reside in society.

Isn't it funny how when in genesis god creates the sun for daylight, and the moon for night time, and throws in the stars as like yeah those are just little specs of light that are there for show no big deal don't worry about them. This suggests that the bible was written by some dude smoking opium because he was hallucinating in all likely hood because thats what people did to enjoy themselves during that time, there was even a war over opium you may remember china and good ol' Great Britain fighting about it. So now your hallucinogenic friend is writing a book based on his observations of what he thinks the universe is, the earth moon and sun, and some specs at night, little did he know that the light on the moon is due to a reflection of light from the sun, which is why some nights the moon goes bye bye.

Tell me i am wrong and you'll be a liar, i have sources for all of this information, my main source being a damn bible.

 

[muhammad]

but the universe did not messengers to tell us it is the creator and it has always existed ?


but the universe did not prove it is the creator via its messengers and did not give them messages or miracles to prove they are messengers ?


this life and the whole system leads to a very important thing : there is rational force behind everything we see ....


but does the universe have the ability to control the system ?

why does'nt the sun fall on earth tomorrow ?

Because ALLAH controls it and prevents skies from collapsing or it may be because the universe prevents it from collapsing ??


ummm ....... :scratchin: Evolution ??



why don't you wake up someday and find yourself became a donkey or a goat and eating tree's leaves ??



why do everything in the universe look organized or classified as if it can not be luck or random creation ?



Good luck

happy Ramadan for all brother Muslims on earth

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Before it was stated if i can't see it, or prove it then a giant evil spaghetti monster can't exist, well guess what, you can't see or prove God guess he doesn't exist either.

Just call "God" = "Energy", and you´re done with it

 

[Imheretopwnyou]

God isn't energy though, god is a made up character used by people to scare others into following their beliefs and generating profit. Religions have exploited their followers for centuries making money off of them telling them if they didn't pay they would be sinners.

Muhammed you clearly have no idea of what evolution is, or how it works, you ignorant fool. Learn some stuff instead of spouting different fallacies from a different religion, what stops the sun from crashing into the earth is the fact that it is in a fixed location that doesn't move, what stops the earth from crashing into the sun is nothing, over time our planet has gotten closer and closer to the sun due to physics, eventually we will be enveloped by the sun and be no more. Allah or God what ever you call him is a false faith, and is ill founded, i'm sorry but you lose buckwheat.

People don't wake up in the morning and just suddenly turn into goats and sheep that isn't how evolution works, gradual change over thousands of years due to natural selection, and selective breeding cause certain traits to be continued where those who don't make it through natural selection nor are selected to breed, their traits die off and are no more. There is much more to evolution than that, but i figure you're small brain capacity can only understand so much.

 

[cosmictraveler]

It is difficult to imagine the universe not having some form of a creator. Something to set all things in motion. Some say it is

It is hard to understand that God exists outside the parameter of what we can understand. Does it make it less true? More true? I don't know. Some say God created Sin and so he is a malecious (sp) God. Is it possible for God to be certain things and everything outside of his being is something else. If God says, I am Love, everything outside of Love is outside of the nature of God. If I put a fence around my yard and say everything inside this fence is mine, it doesn't matter how many other fences are put up and what goes on outside of that fence as it doesn't pertain to what I have valued to myself or my own. So religion creates fences and some have placed their fences in part of Gods yard and the rest ofthe fence in their own yard and try to say, God is inside my fence, come find him here, even though reality says, they may have their fence overlapping Gods shrub garden, but they sure don't have it around his sauna or rose garden.

Don't know if that makes sense or not. Discuss.

I do not find it hard at all not to believe in God.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: In the beginning, there were those wonderful folks down at the Big Bang. They gave us the Sun, and we worshipped. They gave us the Moon, and we worshipped. Eventually, those universal bodies came to be known as God, and we still believed in that crap. Here we are, 10,000 or so years later (not since the Big Bang, but since we evolved enough to start thinking about our place in the universe, and we still believed that we were the lowly creatures in that universe. Millenia have gone by, and some still believe in the false gods of antiquity. They probably will never change. But for the rest of us who can think for ourselves, no god exists, and that's the way it was meant to be.

 

[lightgigantic]

*************
M*W: In the beginning, there were those wonderful folks down at the Big Bang. They gave us the Sun, and we worshipped. They gave us the Moon, and we worshipped. Eventually, those universal bodies came to be known as God, and we still believed in that crap. Here we are, 10,000 or so years later (not since the Big Bang, but since we evolved enough to start thinking about our place in the universe, and we still believed that we were the lowly creatures in that universe. Millenia have gone by, and some still believe in the false gods of antiquity. They probably will never change. But for the rest of us who can think for ourselves, no god exists, and that's the way it was meant to be.

Do we still believe in the Big Bang or are we hubbled, I mean huddled, around a different idea these days?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Do we still believe in the Big Bang or are we hubbled, I mean huddled, around a different idea these days?

*************
M*W: What different 'idea' are you referring to? I personally don't believe there was a Big Bang where all at once the universe exploded and blasted a few really big rocks into orbit. I believe it took aeons upon aeons of gradual formation while the universe was expanding. I also believe that the universe is still in the process of expanding.

However, my post was meant to be scientifically humorous.