In regards to atheism.
- Thread starter garbonzo
- Start date
My only desire has been to know what's true. And at the time I was thinking about these issues, as a child, I was open to all sorts of ideas including magic and ESP. I would have been a devout believer if I was either aware of god or aware of some compelling evidence of god.
They are ignorant, but they seldom wish to remain so.
What did they tell you about god?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Thanks for the compliment Jan.
I am as you know I am perhaps one of your more devoted fans so I appreciate your recognition.
You ability to support the unsupportable really does impress me and deep down I know you probably hold fears and doubts about god being real and I sincerely hope your personal views which remain personal as they should are not altered by anything I say for it matters not what you believe other than it is your right to believe.
Your entertainment value is priceless.
But after you leave here just remember there is no god and the scriptures are made up fairey tales so you can remain grounded in reality.
I can imagine in your world failure to express publicly belief in god would cause you to be cast out of your community so I can understand the pressure that must place you under to present as a believer.
I hope I was not wrong in assuming that you really don't take these discussions seriously and see them as a sort of game where all dance around without really being too serious.
Because I rate you as a very intelligent person, I suspect, well
I just have this feeling that you really are an atheist and use discussions on god and religion to show you can argue with the best of them.
Boy eh, you make an old man happy.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
No not medication, my tablets as in a larger keyboard, I am on my little phone and typing is difficult and I have so much more to say..I have been moving stuff and I can't find either of my tablets so I am limited to this small screen.In your top left hand pocket, where they always are.
jan.
I am very lucky at my age not to have to take medication and retain my clear thinking.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
No not medication, my tablets as in a larger keyboard, I am on my little phone and typing is difficult and I have so much more to say..I have been moving stuff and I can't find either of my tablets so I am limited to this small screen.In your top left hand pocket, where they always are.
jan.
I am very lucky at my age not to have to take medication and retain my clear thinking.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Tablets as in devices and explained to Jan above.Bedside table, where you left them, probably.
I don't have a real keyboard and I wanted to say more is what I was trying to indicate.
All my type is at the moment a one finger effort so I tend to be brief.
As I said to Jan I am very happy not to require meds.
The pain in my legs is near intolerable but I opt to avoid pain killers so as not to cloud my thinking.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Yes but admittedly somewhat off the cuff.
The fact he is christian makes me think his conclusions are arrived at via his beliefs.
I could be wrong but that is unlikely like you Jan I have this ability to just know I am right.
But I was serious in my dismissal of his work given how his research comes around to fit his personal belief.
My personal experience showed me that without indoctrination children conclude god is just another fairey tale.
If religion was not presented to kids such that were left not to think about the matter until their brains were developed I believe most would see religion as merely fairy tales for grown ups.
I look forward to a time when humanity can exist without need of superstition and make believe.
That's why I think you do a great job here Jan as you represent the old ways and superstitious times and how as intelligent as you are even you fail to make a believable case for god and draw attention to the fact that belief is based upon ancient scriptures which any thinking person can conclude are made up and used to control the ignorant masses.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Coming down from the mountain
Hope you like them
Moses
His were hard to swallow but a great attempt.
One attempt to codify the law and the process continues.
Lucky he did not have to put the tax act in stone as he would have used the whole mountain.
Not meds devices that I have misplaced.
They might be in the other car?
Moving about between houses and the various places I live is most disruptive and worst of all takes time away from educating Jan.
I can't wait to get him on the right side, the side of truth.
He will be a wonderful advocate for athiests. He will be devastating when he is able to argue for reason and truth.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I looked they were in the other car but need a recharge.
Alex
Alex
Got it
I'm doing my post on a Huawei 5.1" screen mobile phone
Found a shop here I'm Bali with a 6" screen Android for $35 Aus$
Buying one later
When the girlfriend arrives in a few days I have a 10" tablet from Australia as I upgraded my home one and passing on the older model
Wish you luck with your efforts in converting
Do you ever think about this might be a Uni project for a tutor professor?
Title ' How to string along atheists '
Del dup
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Why not?
You need to keep believers believing otherwise who knows what they could turn to..what we deal with is near intolerable but at least we keep the nutters somehow in control.
And for that end religion is invaluable.
If I was supreme ruler I would not be in a hurry to ban religion whilst they are preoccupied with god they won't learn how to think.
Who wants the masses thinking?
Imagine being the village chief..the villagers risk causing mud slides that will wipe out the village, can you appeal to their wisdom and ban the cutting down of trees on the mountain above the village..won't work..tell them not to go on the sacred mountain or god will get them has a better chance to prevent a mud slide and a good reason to punish any who offend the god of the mountain.
And in the event of a mud slide lay guilt on them and demand more shells to make god happy again.
Whilst the stupidity gene is with us what better way to control the mob.
I know its lieing but I can't think of a better system..yet.
Alex
Your right
System is almost perfect with the answer to any question is
' It's gods will '
Bypasses Physics
Bypasses Thinking
Operates directly on and reinforces the Religion viruses in the brain making them stronger
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
No it does not.
No rational atheist is certain that God does not exist.
The ones that are certain, are so because they have faith (i.e. no proof of their belief.)
But I'm glad I shook your tree.
This is actually true.
Though, there are exceptions:
Those of us who generally like to discuss philosophical issues do recognize that the concept of God to so many people is an issue that cannot simply be dismissed as irrelevant to society as a whole.
Most rational atheists respect the views of theists.
I respect your belief in God, but this is a debate - about certainty. It sets the bar higher for making a case, and for being certain of a belief.
I'm not American, but I acknowledge that American politics can't be easily ignored. There's a third of a billion of my human tribe that care about it deeply.
Am I irrational for discussing that?
There's a another group of people who believe inUFOs, gohst and astrology. just because I don't put stock in them does not mean I don't discuss them.
These are not irrational behaviors. It's called engaging in society.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I disagree Dave.
I am certain.
Surely rationality does not have to leave the door a little bit open to possibility that a fairy tale maybe true. Would it be irrational to be certain that superman does not exist, how about vampires and zombies? We could make a list of fairy tale characters that we can be certain do not and never will exist I can not accept to be certain can be properly called irrational.
You may be able to educate me here.
Alex
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
We know we can't prove a negative.
The consequence (to your understanding of the world) of not believing vampires exist is (arguably) less than not believing God exists.
Jan Ardena:
So comprehension of God just "comes naturally", without your needing to try or do anything specific?
No. You're reading stuff into those articles that isn't there.
Do you think you can you identify somebody who is connected to God, compared to one who is not? What features identify somebody who is connected to God? And what would evidence that connnection in the case of a person who does not know that God exists?
What have you learned about what and why that connection is?
Where are who?
Are you saying that this ability to perceive God is "built into" your consciousness or intelligence somehow? Is it like a sixth sense, then?
How does good human intelligence enable you to perceive God? What is the mechanism or process by which your perception of God arises from your good human intelligence?
I don't like your answer. It leaves the perception of God an unsolved mystery. It's vague and unhelpful. In fact, I think it's just a place-filler assertion to hide the fact that you can't adequate explain how you perceive God.
But we can be extremely confident in the EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
No one has supposedly seen the guy or his son since the last disputed sighting more than 2000 years ago
He doesn't answer prayers
I don't think he's on Facebook or Twitter
The EVIDENCE of his ABSENCE is overwhelming
Too much to go into, for no good reason.
I'm saying it's natural.
Good human intelligence.
God is always an unsolved mystery to you.
I don't believe you. I think you've been knocked of your perch, and you don't feel comfortable because you need validation.
You need to default back to the time you were ignorant of the idea, of being without God.
Now, it plagues you. You know it's true, and
you need a reset, so you can feel good about yourself again.
Jan.
Last edited: