In Defense of Religion

Don’t you realize that religion was one of the prime factors in making civilizations develop and flourish worldwide?


If you take a socio-historical perspective, perhaps. A scientist would most likely say this was due to evolution, as the human mind grew into greater self- conscious independence it sought ways to explain its existence and make sense of the world. Religion was an early attempt to do this, but one where human fears and desires were mixed in with a semi-objectivity, resulting in a confusing view of reality, which most young minds naturally reject.

You can observe the tendency amongst the religious to congregate into 'herds'. Regressing, therefore, to a more primitive state of mental being.


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Atheistic-materialistic mindsets always lead to totalitarian dictatorships: ideologies such as Nazism, Marxism, Communism, Bolshevism, Maoism, Darwinism, etc., can only arise from atheism and the strict belief in nothing other than testable “matter“.


Nothing but pure bleatings of theist ignorance. Pure crap. No reason to go any further. Pointless thread.
 
Could you prove that those behind the religious based charities were actually theists?

Anyway some of the largest philanthropists in the world are atheist or agnostic. Is religion is responsible for that?

Or are you going to say that only evil, materialist atheists would be able to manipulate enough people to get that rich? :p


Statistically speaking they are more likely to be theists than atheists.


You can observe the tendency amongst the religious to congregate into 'herds'. Regressing, therefore, to a more primitive state of mental being.


Like family, society, community, nation, organisation?:rolleyes:
 
Statistically speaking they are more likely to be theists than atheists.
Possibly as these people are scared with the myths of eternal torture and the lure of eternal paradise.

However it doesn't change my point that religion isn't required for people to be charitable.
 
Possibly as these people are scared with the myths of eternal torture and the lure of eternal paradise.

However it doesn't change my point that religion isn't required for people to be charitable.

Show me the money?:p
 
What I haven't seen mentioned, perhaps I've overlooked it, are the countless Christian charity scams that are always out there. Since there are more theists than atheists it would seem logical for the fraudulent to prey upon the devout. Granted they all could be orchestrated by atheists but you can find numerous instances of theists bilking theists just by googling.

I guess one of the advantages of being an atheist is that you won't give to any bunco artists waving the Christian flag. Unfortunately the allure of Christianity has had a hand in emptying the bank accounts of thousands if not millions of people worldwide who feel the urge to donate. Why? Heaven insurance. Who knows?

Even Christians it seems should be very wary of their namesake charities. If you can, it is a good idea to examine the lifestyles of the charity chairs or board members. There is a ton of info available on the internet. In my estimation, Ministry charities are some of the most unscrupulous on the planet and every now and then it becomes common knowledge. The most amazing thing is how flimflam ministry personnel are forgiven by the flock, only to be fleeced again by the same bunch. Incredible is the power of faith, don't you think?
 
Like family, society, community, nation, organisation?:rolleyes:


In the modern world there are rational reasons for how we organize our lives, or should be, which don't require the kind of ritualized behavior you find in religions:
There have been many incidents during the Hajj that have led to the loss of many hundreds of lives. The worst of these incidents have usually occurred during the Stoning of the Devil ritual. During the 2006 Hajj on January 12, 362 pilgrims died. Tramplings have also occurred when pilgrims try to run between the two hills known as As-Safa and Al-Marwa. In 2006 there were some 600 casualties among pilgrims performing the Hajj.
Link.


But really, anytime humans congregate together in large numbers it should be viewed with suspicion.

Even where humans live together in large numbers, such as council estates, slums or ghettos, you find a much greater incidence of crime and people behaving like wild animals.
 
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In the modern world there are rational reasons for how we organize our lives, or should be, which don't require the kind of ritualized behavior you find in religions:



But really, anytime humans congregate together in large numbers it should be viewed with suspicion.

Even where humans live together in large numbers, such as council estates, slums or ghettos, you find a much greater incidence of crime and people behaving like wild animals.

So I'm guessing you don't live in an uncivilised city where people aggregate in a tribal backward manner? You live the civilised life of the hermit in the cave?


What I haven't seen mentioned, perhaps I've overlooked it, are the countless Christian charity scams that are always out there. Since there are more theists than atheists it would seem logical for the fraudulent to prey upon the devout. Granted they all could be orchestrated by atheists but you can find numerous instances of theists bilking theists just by googling.

I guess one of the advantages of being an atheist is that you won't give to any bunco artists waving the Christian flag. Unfortunately the allure of Christianity has had a hand in emptying the bank accounts of thousands if not millions of people worldwide who feel the urge to donate. Why? Heaven insurance. Who knows?

Even Christians it seems should be very wary of their namesake charities. If you can, it is a good idea to examine the lifestyles of the charity chairs or board members. There is a ton of info available on the internet. In my estimation, Ministry charities are some of the most unscrupulous on the planet and every now and then it becomes common knowledge. The most amazing thing is how flimflam ministry personnel are forgiven by the flock, only to be fleeced again by the same bunch. Incredible is the power of faith, don't you think?

What would you say is the likelihood of people running scams in the name of religion actually being devout theists? Or not so devout atheists?
 
What would you say is the likelihood of people running scams in the name of religion actually being devout theists? Or not so devout atheists?

What would you say is the likelihood of Catholic priests not being prone to paedophilia?

I'd say the odds of Christians bilking Christians is pretty good. Despite our good intentions it is pretty hard to ignore money and sex, for theist or atheist.

Take for example the Christian charity called Hope for the Nations. It's the one the two Canadian missionaries who were macheted in Kenya recently worked for. Disregard for a moment that their CEO and some board members were recently accused and arrested for fraud. What I'm trying to say is that it isn't all take......smart Christian charities actually invest money to perpetuate the fraud, like a business expense. The facade works.

Granted, not even a Christian can be sure if its really a Christian running the show but if you look closely, a lot of fraudulent Christian charities have what the flock considers to be good Christians in charge.

The point I'm trying to make is that if Christians can be this easily defrauded then I think it speaks volumes about anyone belonging to such a group. You can be manipulated.
 
What would you say is the likelihood of Catholic priests not being prone to paedophilia?

I'd say the odds of Christians bilking Christians is pretty good. Despite our good intentions it is pretty hard to ignore money and sex, for theist or atheist.

Take for example the Christian charity called Hope for the Nations. It's the one the two Canadian missionaries who were macheted in Kenya recently worked for. Disregard for a moment that their CEO and some board members were recently accused and arrested for fraud. What I'm trying to say is that it isn't all take......smart Christian charities actually invest money to perpetuate the fraud, like a business expense. The facade works.

Granted, not even a Christian can be sure if its really a Christian running the show but if you look closely, a lot of fraudulent Christian charities have what the flock considers to be good Christians in charge.

The point I'm trying to make is that if Christians can be this easily defrauded then I think it speaks volumes about anyone belonging to such a group. You can be manipulated.

Especially by the not so devout. Blame the victim indeed. :rolleyes:
 
I agree with Kadark for the most part.


Religion is a convenient leash on society for it not to go too far. It is also a peace of mind to theists, it gives them hope and confidence. Why try to take that away from them? It makes people happy.

It is also an extremely valuable cultural tool. It establishes conformity for any given society, and a means by which the individuals of that society have a way to put their faith into each other and into the unknown.

You say it makes "ritualistic behavior": this is exactly why I think it's good. What is wrong with rituals? What is culture if not a set of rituals?

I think an openminded theist is more valuable than an atheist.
 
Especially by the not so devout. Blame the victim indeed. :rolleyes:

Sarcasm aside, you 've been manipulated. Don't get upset because every religious person on Earth has suffered the same fate. The only difference is that in some cases the manipulators don't even realize they're doing it. In no way did you wake up one morning and decide to be (pick a religion). You couldn't have done it without someone else, be they living or dead.
 
I agree with Kadark for the most part.


Religion is a convenient leash on society for it not to go too far. It is also a peace of mind to theists, it gives them hope and confidence. Why try to take that away from them? It makes people happy.

It is also an extremely valuable cultural tool. It establishes conformity for any given society, and a means by which the individuals of that society have a way to put their faith into each other and into the unknown.

You say it makes "ritualistic behavior": this is exactly why I think it's good. What is wrong with rituals? What is culture if not a set of rituals?

I think an openminded theist is more valuable than an atheist.

You're oversimplifying the matter. Religion is not all that. The most non-religious democracies of the world are showing that to be the case. The only real threat they face is that they are so docile, they will give too many concessions to islam, and as a result, will be walked all over. Islamification of these countries is the last thing the world needs.

All of your posts on this matter resemble something you'd see in the deep south in America. But of course, where you get so many deeply religious people, you can not avoid fundamentalism.
 
Sarcasm aside, you 've been manipulated. Don't get upset because every religious person on Earth has suffered the same fate. The only difference is that in some cases the manipulators don't even realize they're doing it. In no way did you wake up one morning and decide to be (pick a religion). You couldn't have done it without someone else, be they living or dead.

I was never meant to be a feral child.
 
Society without religion is like a car without break. Religion is a control & safety system. It puts everything in its place.

There's certainly control (or attempts at it), but whether it is safe is another question. Witch burnings spring to mind...

Religion is a convenient leash on society for it not to go too far. It is also a peace of mind to theists, it gives them hope and confidence. Why try to take that away from them? It makes people happy.

That's just fine - up to the point where they try to impose it on everybody else as well.

It is also an extremely valuable cultural tool. It establishes conformity for any given society...

Why is conformity such a great thing? If you have a bunch of mindless sheep following the leader, is that good?

You say it makes "ritualistic behavior": this is exactly why I think it's good. What is wrong with rituals?

It depends on the ritual. Some are harmless; others are harmful. Human sacrifice springs to mind...
 
You're oversimplifying the matter. Religion is not all that. The most non-religious democracies of the world are showing that to be the case. The only real threat they face is that they are so docile, they will give too many concessions to islam, and as a result, will be walked all over. Islamification of these countries is the last thing the world needs.
Not necessarily islamification as much as aggressive Islamification leading to more aggression

All of your posts on this matter resemble something you'd see in the deep south in America. But of course, where you get so many deeply religious people, you can not avoid fundamentalism.
That is because faith is confused for religion

Fundamentalism occurs when there are fundamentals. It occurs when faith is taken into areas of life that it does not belong, and it occurs when it is institutionilized and militarized.

Everyone has faith. Atheists have faith. In something. Nobody on this planet has no faith in anything.

Some like to have faith in a higher power
Others may have faith in Human power

But everyone has faith.


Faith is something personal. It does not call for fundamentals or bickering or control.
That is religion.

Faith, on the other hand, is a personal system. It's a system in which a man may be able to work up to. It's a system that may give a man hope, courage, and goals.


There's certainly control (or attempts at it), but whether it is safe is another question. Witch burnings spring to mind...
A flaw, but not one characteristic of religion in general. Only institutionalized religion, which becomes intolerant.

Would you argue that Christ was intolerant? I do no think so.

Christ said "Love your fellow man" and he also said to have hope in each other and in Humanity.

He never said you had to go to church or that there had to be a pope or that if you don't follow his religion you have to die.



That's just fine - up to the point where they try to impose it on everybody else as well.

The disadvantage of institutionalized religion. When it becomes an actual faction, instead of a personal faith system.



Why is conformity such a great thing? If you have a bunch of mindless sheep following the leader, is that good?
No, of course not.

Conformity is a good thing in that it gives a society common ground. Cultural and traditional conformity within a society is good in that the people will feel comfortable with each other.

However, conformity does not mean you can't do it another way, it simply establishes a certain way that the people can do it and have them on common ground while doing it.



It depends on the ritual. Some are harmless; others are harmful. Human sacrifice springs to mind...

That's not what I meant. I meant ritual to be used in the sense as "tradition".
 
A flaw, but not one characteristic of religion in general. Only institutionalized religion, which becomes intolerant.

If you're talking about how great religion is in creating structure in societies, what type of religion are you talking about, other than institutionalised religion?

Would you argue that Christ was intolerant? I do no think so.

He was intolerant of certain things and certain people. That isn't necessarily a bad thing...

He never said you had to go to church or that there had to be a pope or that if you don't follow his religion you have to die.

But religions set up in his name certainly did, and do.

Conformity is a good thing in that it gives a society common ground. Cultural and traditional conformity within a society is good in that the people will feel comfortable with each other.

The Maya had conformity. They tolerated regular human sacrifices for their religion. I'm not sure they all felt comfortable as a result.

That's not what I meant. I meant ritual to be used in the sense as "tradition".

Human sacrifice was traditional in Mayan religion.
 
If you're talking about how great religion is in creating structure in societies, what type of religion are you talking about, other than institutionalised religion?

I am indeed talking about institutionalized religion in such a case. And it is true that it is great in creating structure.

However, while it may benefit the society to which it belongs, the major drawback is that it usually will become intolerant of other societies.
This does not have to be the case though.

And again personal faith is different to institutionalized religion.



He was intolerant of certain things and certain people. That isn't necessarily a bad thing...
Christ was intolerant of intolerant people.:)



But religions set up in his name certainly did, and do.

A corruption by man, unfortunately



The Maya had conformity. They tolerated regular human sacrifices for their religion. I'm not sure they all felt comfortable as a result.
This is an interesting thought, and you bring up a good point

I can argue that the "conformity" by the Maya enhanced the aspect of tradition and culture within the civilization. Why, then, were people not comfortable? Because some had to be harmed.

However there is no reason why people can't have a tradition and a culture within society that does not involve harming others as an aspect of that tradition and culture. In fact that's the case in most of the conservative world.

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