In a World...where God (Christian) had finally revealed himself...

[Doreen]

Ok Doreen.

God appeared unto the earth and said unto its people mouth-gaped and still...

"It is I, your Lord-God. I have revealed myself for all to see, my children. Listen close, for there is much work to be done." And everyone sat still and attentive, able to speak when ready, able to hear all replies. Able to walk around if they felt necessary. Able to ignore it as if it wasn't happening. Able to pinch themselves to wake up from this strange dream...able to shriek in terror. Able to give praises. Able to ask for forgiveness.

He would not be "angry" per se...that is a very human emotion,

But then some say we were made in God's image. Further in many other traditions God, gods, the Goddess, godesses, etc., have human emotions. And the God of the OT seems quite emotional. Jesus got angry in the NT and so on.

But OK. So this God is not angry.

Any God that came and spoke like that, in that kind of raised tone 'It is I, your Lord God,' would very likely me very uneasy. I would find is disturbing that a god spoke like God does in old films - iow very much like a human who thinks a lot of himself.

I would find it creepy.

and surely being an omniscient all powerful being would not present himself for the first time in (by those alive at the time) human history as a parent scolding his child who walked in at 2am when they were supposed to be home at 10pm.

Oh, I think God might very well speak to many people this way.

 

[Doreen]

I'm just pointing out the problems how having an entity that is obedient to the desires of humanity is not god.
Ordinarily a person feels lack due to material shortcomings. Its the nature of fulfilling those shortcomings that further shortcomings arise.

Hence there are tons of scriptural references about overcoming the dualities of existence (richness/poorness, happiness/distress) and playing up god as some sort of cosmic vending machine.

IOW what you are totally not addressing in your scenario is the nature of desire of the conditioned entity. Simply having "god" come along and fulfill the desire of one and all doesn't solve the inevitable conflict that would arise from such fulfillment.

IOW for as long as one's desires are lodged within the medium of conditioned existence, its not really in god's interests to fulfill them (which brings us back to what we are actually calling upon as a characteristic that designates god)

Is this what you would say to God?

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

I'm just pointing out the problems how having an entity that is obedient to the desires of humanity is not god.
Ordinarily a person feels lack due to material shortcomings. Its the nature of fulfilling those shortcomings that further shortcomings arise.

Hence there are tons of scriptural references about overcoming the dualities of existence (richness/poorness, happiness/distress) and playing up god as some sort of cosmic vending machine.

IOW what you are totally not addressing in your scenario is the nature of desire of the conditioned entity. Simply having "god" come along and fulfill the desire of one and all doesn't solve the inevitable conflict that would arise from such fulfillment.

IOW for as long as one's desires are lodged within the medium of conditioned existence, its not really in god's interests to fulfill them (which brings us back to what we are actually calling upon as a characteristic that designates god)

Ok, he only does these things initially to set up a new world order, one that destroys these dualities completely, they no longer have meaning, it would, in a sense, be something akin to heaven, but you're still alive, there's still disbelief speckled throughout the earth. But there are no rich, there are no poor, there are no "sick" there are no "suffering" we are left only with a new found direct aide, God, and our beliefs and knowledge of the world prior to his appearance. Some should expect punishment yes...but people don't just go up into flames. There's still a chance to "believe in Him, for he is your Lord, your Savior" of you wanted to say "I don't believe it" YOU COULD God is not "acquiescing" his power or giving into carnal desires, he is simply changing things around because he is Omniscient and knows what's best, right? He is showing himself in NOT-SO mysterious ways.

Your Great-great grandmother is NOT BAKING you cookies, she's dead...You're on earth, God comes down, proves himself as clearly as possible, He still expects you to worship and praise Him. God is Love. Etc....nothing is different about God except you wouldn't have to debate his existence with atheists at sciforums.com...because he would say to them

"I'm right here, you have a question, my son?"

 

[spidergoat]

I would have to ask him what he does all day.

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

But then some say we were made in God's image. Further in many other traditions God, gods, the Goddess, godesses, etc., have human emotions. And the God of the OT seems quite emotional. Jesus got angry in the NT and so on.

But OK. So this God is not angry.

Any God that came and spoke like that, in that kind of raised tone 'It is I, your Lord God,' would very likely me very uneasy. I would find is disturbing that a god spoke like God does in old films - iow very much like a human who thinks a lot of himself.

I would find it creepy.

Oh, I think God might very well speak to many people this way.

Ok...so you have a preconceived expectation of God's appearance, understandable. Now imagine that! since it is easier for you.

You can imagine him being angry, and yelling and putting some of the wicked up in flames, creating a tower of the rest of them higher than the eye can see but in the center of everyone's view. However you imagine it give a brief description, quote the bible if you like, and your response would be....?

 

[lightgigantic]

Is this what you would say to God?

At the moment I am doubting that it is (BTW there are tons of references to great asuras doing just precisely this - namely appealing to the base desires of people in general - in order to present themselves as bhagavan)

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

I would have to ask him what he does all day.

Haha yeah? I would be sitting next to you, I might even light a cigarette just to set the mood right (I haven't smoked a day in my life).

I would be in awe, because so much time and suffering was wasted. And here we are talking to God, I'd have a LOT of questions for him.

 

[Doreen]

Ok...so you have a preconceived expectation of God's appearance, understandable. Now imagine that! since it is easier for you.

Wait. You present a God talking like God does in old movies and you think I have a preconception of what God would appear like?

However you imagine it give a brief description, quote the bible if you like, and your response would be....?

I can't imagine why I would quote from the Bible, not being Christian. I don't think God is going to appear to everyone. Hell, in my set of beliefs the whole premise is very strange. But that's neither here nor there. I think it is fair feedback. I think if God, and it was clearly God somehow, showed up but was speaking like God in old movies or like Kings in old movies, a lot of people - not fundamentalists perhaps - would find it creepy/disturbing.

Perhaps if God appeared to those who found that 'right', but differently to others......

 

[Doreen]

At the moment I am doubting that it is (BTW there are tons of references to great asuras doing just precisely this - namely appealing to the base desires of people in general - in order to present themselves as bhagavan)

Well, let's take the odd OP and see what would happen with you.

You know - somehow - that it is God. (that's one of the premises of the OP)
And yet, God is acting like what you think an asura would act like.

What do you do?
How do you feel?

I actually tried to imagine what I would feel like if a God appeared the way he described - in the post specifically to me. I would be disturbed by God coming at me in that way. And I would probably bring it up immediately with God.

In giving this answer I am not saying God would come this way or might even....

 

[lightgigantic]

Ok, he only does these things initially to set up a new world order, one that destroys these dualities completely, they no longer have meaning, it would, in a sense, be something akin to heaven, but you're still alive, there's still disbelief speckled throughout the earth. But there are no rich, there are no poor, there are no "sick" there are no "suffering" we are left only with a new found direct aide, God, and our beliefs and knowledge of the world prior to his appearance. Some should expect punishment yes...but people don't just go up into flames. There's still a chance to "believe in Him, for he is your Lord, your Savior" of you wanted to say "I don't believe it" YOU COULD God is not "acquiescing" his power or giving into carnal desires, he is simply changing things around because he is Omniscient and knows what's best, right? He is showing himself in NOT-SO mysterious ways.

Your Great-great grandmother is NOT BAKING you cookies, she's dead...You're on earth, God comes down, proves himself as clearly as possible, He still expects you to worship and praise Him. God is Love. Etc....nothing is different about God except you wouldn't have to debate his existence with atheists at sciforums.com...because he would say to them

"I'm right here, you have a question, my son?"

A lot of the "hard work" of theistic disciplines is surmounting one's conditioned existence (ie material desire) that have granted one conditioned existence in the first place. If the trappings of material existence are eradicated you are simply left with a world full of frustrated desire, since you would people in general wouldn't have any avenue to express themselves (Like suppose someone, due to envy, wants to steal something - what does god do about this in this new world? Appear before them in a puff of smoke and paralyze them?).
What you would have in an unconditioned world with conditioned souls is a world in which moral decision (an important tool in bridging the gap between conditioned and unconditioned existence) is meaningless.

 

[lightgigantic]

Well, let's take the odd OP and see what would happen with you.

You know - somehow - that it is God. (that's one of the premises of the OP)
And yet, God is acting like what you think an asura would act like.

What do you do?
How do you feel?

I actually tried to imagine what I would feel like if a God appeared the way he described - in the post specifically to me. I would be disturbed by God coming at me in that way. And I would probably bring it up immediately with God.

In giving this answer I am not saying God would come this way or might even....

I also would be disturbed - namely because the notion of overlaying some external apparatus ( a world with no problems and its all yours for the asking) seems like a veneer touch to the internal framework required (IOW being socialized around god because of love - as opposed to getting the wish list or fear of getting paralyzed out of a puff of smoke).

Actually this is vaguely reminiscent of the type of literature certain groups hands out which shows heaven as some sort of park with jesus doing the rounds to make sure that everyone has enough lemonade or something.

As to how I would react, probably in a very hesitant manner - kind of like around a person who wields a lot of power and is potentially volatile

 

[spidergoat]

Haha yeah? I would be sitting next to you, I might even light a cigarette just to set the mood right (I haven't smoked a day in my life).

I would be in awe, because so much time and suffering was wasted. And here we are talking to God, I'd have a LOT of questions for him.

Actually, I don't think anyone would have any questions. He could telepathically communicate to each person and we would instantly understand his purpose. Perfect justice is such that the judged understand and agree with the judgment.

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

It's an uneasy feeling yes doreen and lightgigantic, I think so too. It's a strange premise, yes. All these things are true and true again.

But it's where imagination comes to play. He would, I assume, come to different people in different ways. I used my original quote after appearing and "way of speaking" to fit well with the way I hear it, when considering how the Bible presents it.

I don't disagree that it seems like a "man who thinks highly of himself" but that's what God is right? An all powerful being, righteous and pure, descending upon man, who was made in His image. Speaking to man in a voice audible and coherent to them.

Would he speak like Gilbert Godfrey? Would he sound like Morgan Freeman perhaps, or James Earl Jones? Perhaps its easier to imagine it that way because it's never happened before besides IN MOVIES, correct? I mean, what DOES God sound like? You? You hear him in your exact voice? Or a one deeper and more authorial in nature?

This is a thought experiment. You go into a world, that doesn't exist, you create it and it creates itself...you immerse yourself in a fantasy land...and not all such lands are "fun and enjoyable" they may be dark and disturbing, but thinking about it does not make it happen, doesn't make it true, nor does it invalidate its potential for happening.

It's using imagination, like the Muppet Babies, and the Rugrats...you go somewhere you've never been before, explore, and move your head to see your walls, your computer screen, your desk, your clock change to 10:11 pm etc and so forth...it's not meant to be real or even expose your "belief" or "disbelief" in a God. I told you how I would respond. But arguing the specifics are irrelevant. They're up to you decide. I said God (Christian I denoted, but whatever is easiest), pretty clearly "visible" "alive and existent" (not up to easy debate like a "ufo" or a ghost encounter), and while you're still alive and have choice and control. The rest is for YOU to decide. I made it vague in the beginning so it wouldn't be an argument of specifics. Just how you imagine it...imagine it the way most natural to you.

 

[Lori_7]

No it's not imperative, but if He shows up with a ball of light in the middle of the night, and says "Hello Everyone."

and then what? i mean, he may as well have done that to me. it was, "hello lori!"

Rather than the falling of two cities, the appearance of the Anti-Christ, the second coming of Jesus, I think many would grab their bibles and leaf through it quickly to figure out just what exactly is happening, don't you?

not unless there was a reason to.

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

Actually, I don't think anyone would have any questions. He could telepathically communicate to each person and we would instantly understand his purpose. Perfect justice is such that the judged understand and agree with the judgment.

Interesting, but what if they don't agree with it. Even if they understand it? I mean my directions might say

"You're going to stop this posting on sciforums that you've been doing, you're going to get out there (pat on the butt) and you're going to tell these damned atheists laying around upset about me appearing that it's not worth fighting anymore!"

I wouldn't like that...and I would surely have questions of "why should i do that"?

 

[spidergoat]

I don't think it would work that way, it's the God who came before the whole of creation. He's more basic than the electron. He would know what you are thinking and he would make you understand so that it would not be possible to misunderstand or disagree, unless you were almost a God yourself. I think the truth of things would have to be like that. Like he could give you a glimpse of his point of view. I'm sure it's so unlike what we are used to that it would be a revelation.

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

Ok Lori, so you would join a missionary force correct? You've already joined one? And now you have less to "prove".

It's really what you've been doing all along right? But now there's some people who STILL don't believe. You would ignore them? You would have a big party on your lawn to celebrate His coming? You would stop going to work everyday? You would post a facebook status of "Who'd a thought...?" It's imaginative...if you can't think of something quirky then it's not worth posting at all. If you want help I can give you some?

You're looking into to much, perhaps staling because you really don't KNOW what you would do, it's far too removed from your daily experience? or it's so natural you wouldn't even realize you're doing it?

He shows up, he says, "Hello Lori we have much work to do. Look around you. How many people have been knocked off their feet, all at once, a thunder that can be heard around the world." How would the dialogue go from there?

 

[Doreen]

It's an uneasy feeling yes doreen and lightgigantic, I think so too. It's a strange premise, yes. All these things are true and true again.

But it's where imagination comes to play. He would, I assume, come to different people in different ways.

So for me and I assume everyone else, the reaction would depend on how God came.

You are writing a screenplay. You could describe in the screenplay what people see, what different people see - different images of God. You could simply describe the reactions in the screenplay - which would end up as one shots in the film of people reacting.

I used my original quote after appearing and "way of speaking" to fit well with the way I hear it, when considering how the Bible presents it.

Which would likely disturb people from other traditions.

I don't disagree that it seems like a "man who thinks highly of himself" but that's what God is right?

Well, maybe not. And then, there are many ways to communicate when one is aware of being great. And then the phrase ' thinks highly of himself' sound like human pride.

Would he speak like Gilbert Godfrey? Would he sound like Morgan Freeman perhaps, or James Earl Jones? Perhaps its easier to imagine it that way because it's never happened before besides IN MOVIES, correct? I mean, what DOES God sound like? You? You hear him in your exact voice? Or a one deeper and more authorial in nature?

I think assuming different impressions from different people seems best somehow. I am now thinking of a film and a screenplay and less about my personal beliefs.

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

I don't think it would work that way, it's the God who came before the whole of creation. He's more basic than the electron. He would know what you are thinking and he would make you understand so that it would not be possible to misunderstand or disagree, unless you were almost a God yourself. I think the truth of things would have to be like that. Like he could give you a glimpse of his point of view. I'm sure it's so unlike what we are used to that it would be a revelation.

Good, I thought of it that way too, when first considering the idea. I figured: "well I wouldn't argue anything, because he would have "explained" it to me..."

But then I thought outside of the box. I considered it was a final attempt to "believe in Him" to test us. What a waste of doctrine and book, and human suffering, if, all at once, we were just told by God himself "hey I'm here dude, no more questions". I figured if such an "appearance" were to be effective in the same light as it had been before his appearance, he would STILL give us room to think, questions to ask, yes he knows the questions and the answers, but he always has. He still not divulging them to me completely. He's just throwing it out there for LESS questions to ask. I would still ask Why do you exist? How do you exist? What is the meaning of life? You're as weak as a man and desire worship and love? Are you TRULY God, or are you a really powerful being that still has something greater than itself?

There would be much to ask and I would ask them.

I imagine I would be thrown in a "prison" of sorts by the believers. Maybe even into a mental institution. They would attempt to reprogram my brain, read to me scripture upon scripture, and I would ask, why, why now...they wouldn't have the answer either. They would say, ask him yourself...

 

[CHRISCUNNINGHAM]

So for me and I assume everyone else, the reaction would depend on how God came.

You are writing a screenplay. You could describe in the screenplay what people see, what different people see - different images of God. You could simply describe the reactions in the screenplay - which would end up as one shots in the film of people reacting.

Which would likely disturb people from other traditions.

Well, maybe not. And then, there are many ways to communicate when one is aware of being great. And then the phrase ' thinks highly of himself' sound like human pride.

I think assuming different impressions from different people seems best somehow. I am now thinking of a film and a screenplay and less about my personal beliefs.

Haha I see you are Doreen, interesting isn't it?

Of course it would be disturbing to some, "God" is so vague and yet has so much meaning that to ever present it in an "all encompassing" fashion is silly at best.

I agree that people would react differently, that is why I asked to imagine it as best fit for YOU not a general person.