Immortality issues -- esp. for Cris

[water]

I have asked this in a thread a while back, but Cris hasn't replied.
But it goes for eveyone seeking immortality *and* remaining in this body.

My point is this:

If you want immortality, you'll also need an immortal planet to live on.

Science says that this planet is endangered by other bodies in the universe -- comets can hit it and destroy it, and eventually, our Sun will burn out, cave in and take all the planets with it.

So. Where do you plan to live then? And how do you think people could survive the coming cosmic cataclism?

 

[whitewolf]

Well, if you're speaking about the immortal soul (Christian), then I don't see why a specific planet is necessary.
If you're speaking of reincarnation, then the future incarnations will ponder this question and will undoubtedly come up with a solution. The universe is large.

 

[Adstar]

Well God being God can do all things:

Revelation 21:
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." 5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." 6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Michael]

When, not if, humans stop the aging process and if, not when, we find a way to back up our memories (aka self) then I suppose we'll worry about the sun burning out in the millions of years thereafter. The point is, It'd be nice to live for at least another couple of hundred years (in good health), not just a few decades we presently get and then wink all gone (for all time).

The problem I think comes down to "self" will a 200 year old YOU actually be ANYTHING AT ALL like you are now? The way our memories work - probably not at all. A 1000 yr old YOU would probably have absolutely zero memories nor similarity to the YOU, you are today. So in that sense your future self may (for all practice purposes) be you great great .... grand child (rather than the you, whom is no longer you)

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: Preaching!!!

 

[water]

Please. Repeating myself:

I have asked this in a thread a while back, but Cris hasn't replied.
But it goes for eveyone seeking immortality *and* remaining in this body.

I have stated the topic clearly.

 

[Yorda]

The point is, It'd be nice to live for at least another couple of hundred years (in good health), not just a few decades we presently get and then wink all gone (for all time).

I doubt it would be nice to live longer than 120 years. What would you do all that time? Wouldn't you go insane? Wouldn't life get boring? And if death means nothingness, why not die now? Nothingness would be perfection. No pain, ever. I would be very "happy" to die if death meant nothingness... but I believe in the "curse" of afterlife. I wish YOU could believe in life after death since you seem to "fear" nothingness. I think nothingness is our ultimate goal - the paradise.

 

[Cris]

Water,

Sorry - been busy at work - major reorganization at the moment – seems I still have a job. Thanks for the PM.

The next major asteroid will destroy this planet, so we need to have left it by then, otherwise we will become extinct like the dinosaurs. The universe, I’ve heard is rather large so we must learn to explore it and live elsewhere than just this planet, but there is a problem – we have evolved with this planet and are interlocked and dependent on its cycles and forces, e.g. sleep cycles, gravity, biology. We’d have trouble living on other planets with significantly higher or lower gravity, and we’d find it strange with a day cycle of say 63 hours instead of 24, etc, etc, not to mention the need for a biological plant life that can support us.

Our way forward is to merge with more advanced technology and transfer our intelligence to a more resilient substrate, i.e. silicon or something similar. We need to leave biology behind and that will allow us to live on planets of almost any gravity with or without an atmosphere and where the daily cycle is irrelevant. Or we can simply live in huge travelling space stations and forget about planets completely. More likely variations of all of that.

Try this website http://www.imminst.org/

And this forum – “brain- computer interfacing” http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=SF&f=47

But mind-uploading is still a few decades away but in the meantime a cure for aging is the next short-term step until more advanced technology moves us forward and outward. Once your brain patterns are digitized and can be uploaded/downloaded to/from an appropriate processing device whenever you need and provided you always maintain appropriate secure backups then you will have achieved effective immortality until the end of the universe.

Hope that helps.
Cris

 

[Cris]

Yorda,

I doubt it would be nice to live longer than 120 years.

Are you nuts?

What would you do all that time?

Ahh – the universe is extremely large – we have barely touched it yet.

Wouldn't you go insane? Wouldn't life get boring?

Only for those with no imagination. You are perhaps an appropriate candidate.

And if death means nothingness, why not die now?

Right. You are nuts.

Nothingness would be perfection.

Dumb! You wouldn’t be around to appreciate it though.

No pain, ever.

Non-existence is not the same thing as no-pain.

I would be very "happy" to die if death meant nothingness...

An unfathomable perspective.

but I believe in the "curse" of afterlife.

And are quite irrational to do so.

I think nothingness is our ultimate goal - the paradise.

Totally brainwashed by mystical gibberish.

 

[Yorda]

Ahh – the universe is extremely large – we have barely touched it yet.

Everything we need were given the day we were born. You'll just find other Sun's, other Earth's, and other beings. When I walk around on earth, I see the same pattern all the time: fire, air, water and earth. The physical universe is the same everywhere. I think it's more important to explore the inner universe, inside ourselves. The universe is as big as our imagination. But if we observe ourselves (the universe), from outside, with our senses, it makes no sense.

Only for those with no imagination. You are perhaps an appropriate candidate.

It's not just about imagination.

Dumb! You wouldn’t be around to appreciate it though.
Non-existence is not the same thing as no-pain.
An unfathomable perspective.

It's impossible to talk about nothingness, but I still "like" it.

And are quite irrational to do so.

What is irrational about believing in life after death? You can only see what death does to other people, what it looks like from the outside while you're still inside.

 

[Adstar]

Please. Repeating myself:

I have asked this in a thread a while back, but Cris hasn't replied.
But it goes for eveyone seeking immortality *and* remaining in this body.

I have stated the topic clearly.

Oh "*and* remaining in this body" I see.

No we will not have eternity in this body.

1 Corrinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed -- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Cris]

Yorda,

Everything we need were given the day we were born.

I need my own space craft – I haven’t received it yet. Clearly you are talking nonsense.

You'll just find other Sun's, other Earth's, and other beings.

Ok fine – umm so what? But how do you know without exploring?

When I walk around on earth, I see the same pattern all the time: fire, air, water and earth.

Kinda difficult to see air. I can go a long time without seeing any fire. But you don’t know if there is anything else.

The physical universe is the same everywhere.

No one can know that. What makes you so special?

I think it's more important to explore the inner universe, inside ourselves.

Why choose one over the other – what is wrong with exploring both?

The universe is as big as our imagination.

Gibberish.

But if we observe ourselves (the universe), from outside, with our senses, it makes no sense.

More gibberish.

It's not just about imagination.

Finding something to do with your life? It is all about imagination.

It's impossible to talk about nothingness, but I still "like" it.

Nothingness is the absence of something. Looks like it isn’t impossible to talk about nothing after all.

What is irrational about believing in life after death?

A rational argument depends on an evidential basis – your belief doesn’t have one.

You can only see what death does to other people,

Quite correct, since if I was dead I would be unable to see anything.

what it looks like from the outside while you're still inside.

More gibberish apparently.

 

[Cris]

Adstar,

No we will not have eternity in this body.

History is full of the narrow-minded who have asserted with certainty that what cannot be known can never occur, only to be proved wrong.

1 Corrinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed -- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Total meaningless nonsense.

 

[ghost7584]

Adstar,

History is full of the narrow-minded who have asserted with certainty that what cannot be known can never occur, only to be proved wrong.

Total meaningless nonsense.

If the bible is true (I happen to know that it is) then
You are in a heap of trouble there, boy.!!!!!

 

[Cris]

ghost,

If the bible is true (I happen to know that it is)

No you don't, you only imagine it is true. The bible is pure mythology and largely utter nonsense.

then
You are in a heap of trouble there, boy.!!!!!

Dream on.

 

[ghost7584]

ghost,

No you don't, you only imagine it is true. The bible is pure mythology and largely utter nonsense.

Dream on.

I became a christian from being an agnostic physics student, by doing an experiment to test for the existence of God.

Part of the evidence from my experiment was:
Jesus Christ appeared to me and paraphrased something from the New Testament to me, as it applied in my case.

The apostle Paul said that Jesus appeared to him.
Well, I am saying He appeared to me.
Believe what you want; you are going to do that anyway.
[When I say bible I mean the King James version; that is the real bible. Market is full of fake bibles with the words changed.]

 

[Cris]

Ghost,

Part of the evidence from my experiment was:
Jesus Christ appeared to me and paraphrased something from the New Testament to me, as it applied in my case.

How can you tell if that was real or just your imagination?
Who else saw this and did you get it on videotape?
Do you have independent verifiable evidence?
Do you suffer from epilepsy or does your family have a history of epilepsy?
Have you experienced any other forms of hallucinations?
If no one else saw this then how do you know it wasn't a hallucination?

 

[Adstar]

Total meaningless nonsense.

Meaningless to those who have not been given the means to understand.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Light Travelling]

Water,

Our way forward is to merge with more advanced technology and transfer our intelligence to a more resilient substrate, i.e. silicon or something similar. We need to leave biology behind and that will allow us to live on planets of almost any gravity with or without an atmosphere and where the daily cycle is irrelevant. Or we can simply live in huge travelling space stations and forget about planets completely. More likely variations of all of that.

Try this website http://www.imminst.org/

And this forum – “brain- computer interfacing” http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=SF&f=47

But mind-uploading is still a few decades away but in the meantime a cure for aging is the next short-term step until more advanced technology moves us forward and outward. Once your brain patterns are digitized and can be uploaded/downloaded to/from an appropriate processing device whenever you need and provided you always maintain appropriate secure backups then you will have achieved effective immortality until the end of the universe.

Hope that helps.
Cris

Is this really supposed to be more rational than a belief in the spiritual?

edit>

Chris,

If we are really just the sum of our physical parts then 'we' as a seperate entity do not exist.

Given the above we could swop bodies with minds etc. maybe edit out undesirable traits via a keyboard. We would have Frankinsteins monster, would we not?

 

[Light Travelling]

I would be very "happy" to die if death meant nothingness... but I believe in the "curse" of afterlife. I wish YOU could believe in life after death since you seem to "fear" nothingness. I think nothingness is our ultimate goal - the paradise.

Many people who believe only in the material, see death as oblivion, as nothingness but then, as you say, why fear death? Why try to postpone death even?

Because if death brings oblivion, then as soon as one dies they will not know they have died. They will not know they have lived or miss that life. so why try to postpone it so desperately? Is it because deep within the subconscious they know that this is not the case?

In fact many people look for death as a great release, a great unburdening of deeds and thoughts committed, from the highs and lows of life. How terrible when thay realise that life continues. When they close their eyes - die - and then open them again to continued life, discovering they have done little more than walk through a door of consciousness.