If a man forsakes God

[Silas]

Seriously, MedicineWoman, as an atheist I do not see eye-to-eye with Jenyar, but he is very far from being even remotely the most deluded person here. So he's a Christian believer? Well, the world is full of them, and lie or not they are here to stay so it's better to argue with them on rational grounds (more possible with Jenyar than with most other Christian or Muslim posters here, I feel) than start accusing him of mental instability.

Is this a general new thing to call water by her old name now? Just askin'. Though I will say that I don't think "water" is a very good handle. It's too,........ wishy-washy. (Forgive me! )

 

[Jan Ardena]

water,

Considering the experience one can easily make with people, forsaking is met with forsaking. Or pity.

That would depend on the relationship, inwardly, some people hanker after the one that has forsaken them while outwardly showing a care-less attitude.
They say absence makes the heart grow fonder.

And the impression one gets about God is that he is very jealous and does not wait a second to put against you any wrong that you have done against him.

I persume you are refering to the Old Testament?
There is more to those texts than is revealed in the bible. I get the feeling it was intended.

Have you read Bhagavad Gita (Song of God). It is description of God, by God Himself.
If yes, what did you think of it?
If not, why not give it a try, you may get clearer impressions.

Note that I'm not justifying anything here; I'm giving experience with people as an example. The way we were raised, influenced by other people does shape they way we think about God -- and it may be very wrong or misleading. To overcome that though, one must first know where that wrong is.

And then what?

Lives, does what he/she does, then dies, exactly what you see now.

Is the life of the one who has forsaken God a living hell, torture, ...?

That would depend on what you mean by a living hell or torture.
But to the eye he may be a very successfull person, and live in the house on the hill, enjoying all the pleasures that richness may bring.

Jan Ardena.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Silas: Seriously, MedicineWoman, as an atheist I do not see eye-to-eye with Jenyar, but he is very far from being even remotely the most deluded person here.
*************
M*W: Silas, thanks for your comment. Although Jenyar is articulate, it doesn't mean he's playing with a full deck of cards. Like we say in Texas, he's one taco shy of a combination plate. I've been here for four years, and it seems that Jenyar has progressively become more creatively embellishing and anthropomorphizing such things as a god with human feelings and emotions as well as body parts, fruit that believes in supernatural phenomena, and believes he can directly interpret for the rest of us what God happens to be thinking! This goes too far beyond the standard of christian interpretation. I used to be a christian until I found out the truth about it.
*************
Silas: So he's a Christian believer? Well, the world is full of them, and lie or not they are here to stay so it's better to argue with them on rational grounds (more possible with Jenyar than with most other Christian or Muslim posters here, I feel) than start accusing him of mental instability.
*************
M*W: Yes, he's a christian believer, but he goes beyond the call of the christian duty of worship. I don't have a problem with someone believing in their god. By all means, believe in who or whatever you want, and I will defend your right to do so, but I do take issue with a person who creates an entire fantasma about their god and his humanlike comings and goings. To me, that borders on pseudoscience and fiction. Then Jenyar tries to sell it to the rest of us.
*************
Silas: Is this a general new thing to call water by her old name now? Just askin'. Though I will say that I don't think "water" is a very good handle. It's too,........ wishy-washy. (Forgive me! )
*************
M*W: What's in a name? The writing style is the same. She changed her username, because she pissed a lot of people off on this forum with her uppity attitude, and she ran and hid out on other fora. Sure, I'll forgive you for the "wishy-washy," comment, although I did get a good laugh about it, but I doubt rosamagicka will! You can run, rosa, but you just can't hide.

 

[water]

Is this a general new thing to call water by her old name now? Just askin'.

No. But watch how that spreads, just like rumour.

Though I will say that I don't think "water" is a very good handle. It's too,........ wishy-washy.

Say those who think that all there is to water is what is to water in a spoon.

(Forgive me! )

You are not asking sincerely, so I won't forgive you.


* * *

That would depend on the relationship, inwardly, some people hanker after the one that has forsaken them while outwardly showing a care-less attitude.
They say absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Yah, that's "I don't want to be friends with those who want to be friends with me" thinking.

But seriously, we might be on to something interesting regarding the thread topic: To hanker after the one who has forsaken you. One can sometimes see people who have declared to have forsaken God and that God has forsaken them -- and yet they go and on about this, keep bringing up this being forsaken and having forsaken. How come?

And the impression one gets about God is that he is very jealous and does not wait a second to put against you any wrong that you have done against him.

I persume you are refering to the Old Testament?
There is more to those texts than is revealed in the bible. I get the feeling it was intended.

Intended -- in what way?

Have you read Bhagavad Gita (Song of God). It is description of God, by God Himself.
If yes, what did you think of it?
If not, why not give it a try, you may get clearer impressions.

I haven't read it yet. But I must tell you right away that I have a deep aversion for most things from India.

Is the life of the one who has forsaken God a living hell, torture, ...?

That would depend on what you mean by a living hell or torture.
But to the eye he may be a very successfull person, and live in the house on the hill, enjoying all the pleasures that richness may bring.

What about the other way around: If a person whose life is a living hell and torture -- poverty, misery, depression -- does this automatically mean that they have forsaken God?

 

[water]

1. Why do you go at Jenyar so much?
*************
M*W: He's coming from a dark place in his mind. His posts reek of delusion.

What professional qualification do you have to make a statement like this?
What professional qualification do you have to say things like, "I am very sincere about getting some psychiatric help for your delusions."?
Are you a trained psychiatrist?

2. Do you feel threatened by him?
*************
M*W: Not in the least. I'm not threatened by anyone here or elsewhere.

If you live in the US, then you are threatened by Islamic terrorists, to say the least.

3. Do you think he presents a danger/risk for the public here?
*************
M*W: No, but I do think he perpetuates the lie of christianity; therefore, he is mentally unstable and is a public nuisance.

Non sequitur.

 

[water]

What's in a name? The writing style is the same. She changed her username, because she pissed a lot of people off on this forum with her uppity attitude,

I changed my username because I pissed off a lot of people on this forum with my uppity attitude?
This is too funny.

And if I told you why I changed it -- you would insist on your interpretation simply because it is *yours*, right?

It has never been a secret that I have changed my username. If you would get your head out of the sand of the religion forum, you would know too.

Whom have I pissed off?

and she ran and hid out on other fora. Sure, I'll forgive you for the "wishy-washy," comment, although I did get a good laugh about it, but I doubt rosamagicka will!

At least learn to spell it right: RosaMagika.
But now I have a new username -- for quite some time actually -- and I am to be addressed with it.

You can run, rosa, but you just can't hide.

Brr, how I fear thee, Medicine Woman!

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Lol, all debates that discuss the existence of "god/gods" starts with an interest, then continues with a long series of arguments and finally end with personal insults.

 

[spidergoat]

I'm waiting for them to strip down and wrestle, preferably in pudding.

 

[water]

Lord Phoenix, Spidergoat:

There is a reason why discussions become personal: Eventually, the same bad attitude that brought up bad arguments has to be adressed as well.
There are usually at least two main reasons for having a discussion present in these discussions here:

1. To have a theological/religious discussion.
2. To win.

Nothing wrong with these reasons -- just that some are so eager to win that they will resort to any argument that comes to their mind, eventually ending in personal attacks.
As in any communication, there is a meta-level to the discussions here as well.
It seems to me that some people argue about religion for purposes that have nothing directly to do with religion. If this continues for a long time, it is best to address it directly, in the form of a personal approach -- lest the discussion should continue to be marred with those personal interests that are not directly connected to the topic in question.

 

[Jan Ardena]

water,

One can sometimes see people who have declared to have forsaken God and that God has forsaken them -- and yet they go and on about this, keep bringing up this being forsaken and having forsaken. How come?

How come they go on and on?
You would have to ask them.

Intended -- in what way?

By the ommision of texts which did not suit, for a start.

I haven't read it yet. But I must tell you right away that I have a deep aversion for most things from India.

What a strange statement.
I look foreward to reading your reasons why.

What about the other way around: If a person whose life is a living hell and torture -- poverty, misery, depression -- does this automatically mean that they have forsaken God?

Or put another way; Does God punish a person with these miseries because the person chose to forsake Him?
No. There would be no point to that kind of action, this is the fantasy put foreward by unscrupulous people who are in the business of keeping fear very much part of the general pysche. The fashion has changed now, we don't fear God anymore we fear terrorists.
This comes under the intended damage I spoke of previously.

Jan Ardena.

 

[water]

One can sometimes see people who have declared to have forsaken God and that God has forsaken them -- and yet they go and on about this, keep bringing up this being forsaken and having forsaken. How come?

How come they go on and on?
You would have to ask them.

As far as I know, they mostly respond emotionally, in resentment.

Intended -- in what way?

By the ommision of texts which did not suit, for a start.

But this omission happened by human will and interest, not by divine intervention. Or?

I haven't read it yet. But I must tell you right away that I have a deep aversion for most things from India.

What a strange statement.
I look foreward to reading your reasons why.

It is a preconception, I am aware of it, it technically has the quality of prejudice. Some people say "India!" and think "Spirituality! Enlightenment! ahh! ooooh! Everyone must go to India on a spiritual journey!".
While if I think "India.", I think poverty, misery, diseases. I know, it's selective observation, but it is not that it wouldn't be true.

Secondly, that culture is foreign to me, I simply cannot relate to it. I don't believe in multiculturality. One can know and live only one culture. Eccleticism is not organic and it is not viable; it is a nice mess, but a mess nonetheless.

Unless one is after a panacea that will heal all his doubts once and for all, or unless one is guided by "the grass is always greener on the other side", one's native culture suffices with concepts that can make one's life meaningful.

A line of thinking that has lead to a certain doubt will also clarfy, upon further investigation, why this doubt emerged and how to solve it. Going somewhere else to System B, looking for a problem that emerged in System A, and in A introduce a solution from B may work for a while, but it eventually just postpones the problem.

Simply put, I can organize and decorate my room in my European way, and it willl be great to live in, without applying any Feng Shui.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

water: What professional qualification do you have to make a statement like this?
What professional qualification do you have to say things like, "I am very sincere about getting some psychiatric help for your delusions."?
Are you a trained psychiatrist?
*************
M*W: My professional qualifications are none of your business. If I didn't know what I was talking about, I wouldn't have said it.
*************
water: If you live in the US, then you are threatened by Islamic terrorists, to say the least.
*************
M*W: Where I live is of no concern to you. I've stated my location many times. I am not the least bit threatened by Islamic or any other terrorists. (You do understand that the Muslims haven't cornered the market on terrorism, don't you?). Don't assume you know that I'm threated. This world is being terrorized by rampant drug abuse. When it's my time to go, I'm ready. I've done everything I set out to do and did it well. As a christian turned atheist, I continue to reap my just rewards.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Water, generally people end up personally attacking each other when they do not have any more arguments left. In that case, just leave, and do not reply anymore, cause generally when your points deplete, you start throwing in useless arguements.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

1000 years ago
"Does God exist?" "Ofcourse"
Present
"Does God exist?" "Maybe"
1000 years in the future
"What is god?" "No idea"

 

[water]

M*W: My professional qualifications are none of your business. If I didn't know what I was talking about, I wouldn't have said it.

So you think you can just go around judging people, slandering them -- while the only qualification you have for making such statements is "It is so because I said it is so".

You have the mind of a terrorist.


* * *

Water, generally people end up personally attacking each other when they do not have any more arguments left. In that case, just leave, and do not reply anymore, cause generally when your points deplete, you start throwing in useless arguements.

This isn't "generally".

Also, say that to Medicine Woman -- most of her arguments to certain posters here are personal attacks.