If a man forsakes God

[Jenyar]

No, you don't understand me and my past. I was once gullible enough to believe in the Church ie Protestant Christianity. And then I woke up. I seen the hypocrasy (sp) and political bs. I decided it wasn't for me. There was also all the fiction in the Grand and Holy BOOK.

Did the hypocrisy and political bs stop when you left? Jesus is real; God sees it too. Neither a book not a church can replace Him. The people and words that speak of God are no fiction, just like those who dabble in hypocrisy and political powergames aren't fiction either.

Nothing justifies loveless and selfish behaviour; especially not if we know how much God loves us and understand His grace. Forsaking and rejecting God in our anger and indignation at such godlessness doesn't take the problem away, nor will it make people in general seem less selfish or sinful.

 

[§outh§tar]

Did the hypocrisy and political bs stop when you left? Jesus is real; God sees it too. Neither a book not a church can replace Him. The people and words that speak of God are no fiction, just like those who dabble in hypocrisy and political powergames aren't fiction either.

Nothing justifies loveless and selfish behaviour; especially not if we know how much God loves us and understand His grace. Forsaking and rejecting God in our anger and indignation at such godlessness doesn't take the problem away, nor will it make people in general seem less selfish or sinful.

Jenyar, which God? Not the God of your Book? Not your God?

Is your God not real to you?

To each and his own.

 

[Jenyar]

The God of Israel is my God by the grace of His Christ.

 

[§outh§tar]

I thought the God of Israel was the Christ?


P.S. I liked the Thundercats one better.

 

[Jenyar]

Christ was the arm of Israel's God, the voice calling sinners and gentiles to Him.

PS. I took the photo myself, but if it doesn't grow on me I'll change back to Lion-o.

 

[water]

P.S. I liked the Thundercats one better.

PS. I took the photo myself, but if it doesn't grow on me I'll change back to Lion-o.

P(articularly).S(plendiferous). They both thunder!

 

[Awake]

True, but the bs and hypocrisy are not directly affecting me or my family. I think that Christ was an enlightened individual. But I don't believe he has been the only one. I don't believe he is "THE SON OF GOD" anymore than we are all part of the ONENESS that is GOD.

 

[Jan Ardena]

water,

If a man forsakes God, does God forsake him in return?

You ask that as though it is natural to forsake because you have been forsaken. Do you believe that?

Can a man cause God to forsake him?

I imagine so.

Under what conditions does God do that?

God plays the role of forsaking the man due to the mans desires until the man comes to his senses in either this life or the next.

What does the forsaken one experience?

He probably won't know he's forsaken until he comes to his senses.

Jan Ardena.

 

[Jan Ardena]

water,

No. I'm thinking in practical terms: Say that nothing is going my way, I pray and I pray, it only gets worse and worse. And so for years. One day, I'm sick of it, and I say, "God, I hate you, I forsake you!"

This type of relationship is actually a very advanced form of worship. It shows a very intense love of God, so much that you don't care for His status. This type of relationship occured between the Gopis of Vrndavana and Lord Shree Krishna.

What happens? Does God forsake me? What do I experience then, if He does forsake me?

He plays roles, but in reality, in your real position, you belong to Him and He belongs to you, eternally. There can never be real separation.

Jan Ardena.

Jan Ardena.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jenyar: Jesus is real; God sees it too. Neither a book not a church can replace Him. The people and words that speak of God are no fiction, just like those who dabble in hypocrisy and political powergames aren't fiction either.

Nothing justifies loveless and selfish behaviour; especially not if we know how much God loves us and understand His grace. Forsaking and rejecting God in our anger and indignation at such godlessness doesn't take the problem away, nor will it make people in general seem less selfish or sinful.
*************
M*W: Jesus was a man, a rabbi. He may have lived, but then again, the messiah Paul created was, is, and will always be a myth -- as in fiction. Your delusions discredit you. The more you post about your religion, the more creative you become. In your mind, you have turned a myth into reality -- in your understanding, but not for the rest of us! A myth cannot be sanely turned into a reality. You even embellish your mythological god with feelings and emotions, physical being, and relationships! You come almost to the point of telling us what he had for dinner last night! You believe in something that will never be proven to the world, but only in your own delusional mind. Jenyar, you are a very sick young man. You were reared in christianity, so your family has helped in your addiction to christianity. I would imagine your relationship with your family is quite co-dependent in your addiction. Help is available. Get help!

 

[Jenyar]

Medicine*woman

Thanks for your concern, but I don't know if it's sincere. You seem to have "sanely turned a myth into reality" yourself, so it must be possible. You rely on Paul for information about Jesus (since you believe the gospels were written under his direction), yet you reject everything Paul said. It doesn't make sense to me.

Jan Ardena

He plays roles, but in reality, in your real position, you belong to Him and He belongs to you, eternally. There can never be real separation.

I don't believe God just plays along with our games just to humour us. He remains faithful and doesn't reject us finally until our rejection of Him is final, but just as His love is real, his aversion to sin is also real.

Distress isn't a sign that God has forsaken you, but without God one is without recourse. With God, one might sometimes feel forsaken, but you can have faith of His faithfulness. It's not about not caring for God's status, it's just a sincere cry for help, realizing who God is. When He seems far from us, it helps to remember times when His presence was certain - for perspective:

Psalm 77:6b-11
My heart mused and my spirit inquired:
"Will the Lord reject forever?
Will he never show his favor again?
Has his unfailing love vanished forever?
Has his promise failed for all time?
Has God forgotten to be merciful?
Has he in anger withheld his compassion?"

Then I thought, "To this I will appeal:
the years of the right hand of the Most High."
I will remember the deeds of the LORD;
yes, I will remember your miracles of long ago.​

 

[water]

“ If a man forsakes God, does God forsake him in return? ”

You ask that as though it is natural to forsake because you have been forsaken. Do you believe that?

Considering the experience one can easily make with people, forsaking is met with forsaking. Or pity.

And the impression one gets about God is that he is very jealous and does not wait a second to put against you any wrong that you have done against him.

Note that I'm not justifying anything here; I'm giving experience with people as an example. The way we were raised, influenced by other people does shape they way we think about God -- and it may be very wrong or misleading. To overcome that though, one must first know where that wrong is.

“ What does the forsaken one experience? ”

He probably won't know he's forsaken until he comes to his senses.

And then what?
Is the life of the one who has forsaken God a living hell, torture, ...?


* * *

Jenyar: Jesus is real; God sees it too. Neither a book not a church can replace Him. The people and words that speak of God are no fiction, just like those who dabble in hypocrisy and political powergames aren't fiction either.

Nothing justifies loveless and selfish behaviour; especially not if we know how much God loves us and understand His grace. Forsaking and rejecting God in our anger and indignation at such godlessness doesn't take the problem away, nor will it make people in general seem less selfish or sinful.
*************
M*W: Jesus was a man, a rabbi. He may have lived, but then again, the messiah Paul created was, is, and will always be a myth -- as in fiction. Your delusions discredit you. The more you post about your religion, the more creative you become. In your mind, you have turned a myth into reality -- in your understanding, but not for the rest of us! A myth cannot be sanely turned into a reality. You even embellish your mythological god with feelings and emotions, physical being, and relationships! You come almost to the point of telling us what he had for dinner last night! You believe in something that will never be proven to the world, but only in your own delusional mind. Jenyar, you are a very sick young man. You were reared in christianity, so your family has helped in your addiction to christianity. I would imagine your relationship with your family is quite co-dependent in your addiction. Help is available. Get help!

Medicine Woman, do tell me:

1. Why do you go at Jenyar so much?
2. Do you feel threatened by him?
3. Do you think he presents a danger/risk for the public here?

 

[water]

I don't believe God just plays along with our games just to humour us. He remains faithful and doesn't reject us finally until our rejection of Him is final, but just as His love is real, his aversion to sin is also real.

When is our rejection of God final? What does it take?

 

[Jenyar]

At death - when our ability to make decisions is wrested from us, and nature signs its name under our lives. If we gave our lives to nature, it owns us - if we give it to God... He has signed His name below death's.

 

[water]

But what if I am angry at God today, forsake Him today, and then a car hits me. I might have changed my mind in a few months, but this has become an impossibility.
Will I be judged by the last thing I did when alive?

 

[Jenyar]

Like I've said, forsaking God isn't just done intellectually, or in words or thoughts alone. God sees the way you live and listens to your heart, He knows you better than you know yourself. If you were just throwing a tantrum, like even David does a few times in the Psalms, it won't make a difference to the path you took when the road split.

 

[water]

So it is basically beyond me, and I can be competent that even if I don't trust God right now -- that I don't have to consider myself forever bound by this (perhaps) one-time distrust?

 

[Jenyar]

Here it is in parable. Two sisters, "Israel" and "Judah" had forsaken God.

Jeremiah 3
4 Have you not just called to me: 'My Father, my friend from my youth, will you always be angry? Will your wrath continue for ever?'

This is how you talk, but you do all the evil you can.

9 Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood [i.e. unfaithfulness by following after false gods]
10 In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretence, declares the LORD. The LORD said to me, 'Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah.'
12 Go, proclaim this message towards the north:
'Return, faithless Israel,' declares the LORD,'I will frown on you no longer, for I am merciful,' declares the LORD,'I will not be angry for ever.
13 Only acknowledge your guilt — you have rebelled against the LORD your God, you have scattered your favours to foreign gods under every spreading tree, and have not obeyed me,' declares the LORD.

19 I myself said, 'How gladly would I treat you like sons and give you a desirable land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.'​

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jenyar: Thanks for your concern, but I don't know if it's sincere. You seem to have "sanely turned a myth into reality" yourself, so it must be possible. You rely on Paul for information about Jesus (since you believe the gospels were written under his direction), yet you reject everything Paul said. It doesn't make sense to me.
*************
M*W: Jenyar, I am very sincere about getting some psychiatric help for your delusions.

I don't believe in myths. Myths are fictional stories usually of beings greater than humans. However, in ancient times, these people may have been humans. Who knows? But through the ages, these stories were embellished. That's not the argument here, though.

I don't rely on Paul for any truthful information about Jesus! I am certain that everyone on this forum knows where I stand on the issue of Paul. How you now all of a sudden thought I relied on Paul's writings for anything is just another one of your delusions. The gospels were written by those who were influenced by Paul's epistles, and by those who knew him when he lived. I do reject everything Paul said including his epistles and the gospels. Pauline christianity is delusional as was Paul.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

rosamagicka: Medicine Woman, do tell me:

1. Why do you go at Jenyar so much?
*************
M*W: He's coming from a dark place in his mind. His posts reek of delusion.
*************
2. Do you feel threatened by him?
*************
M*W: Not in the least. I'm not threatened by anyone here or elsewhere.
*************
3. Do you think he presents a danger/risk for the public here?
*************
M*W: No, but I do think he perpetuates the lie of christianity; therefore, he is mentally unstable and is a public nuisance.