I'd Like Muslims More

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EmptyForceOfChi said:
and whats the difference? what do you think wrath means? a tea party with cake?
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It says "the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3.36) That means God will that care of it.

The Koran ask it's people to impose Gods wrath themselves:
Koran 40:67-40:73
We sent through Our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.
 
Willy said:
if none of them read the Koran anymore:

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

Koran 22:19-22:23
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Sclading water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'

Koran 18:28-30
For the wrongdoers We have prepared a fire which will encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they cry out for help they shall be showered with water as hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil shall be their drink, dismal their resting-place.

Koran 40:67-40:73
Do you not see how those who dispute the revelation of God turn away from the right path ? Those who have denied the Book and the message We sent through Our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.

Koran 43:74
..The unbelievers shall endure forever the torment of Hell. The punishment will never be lightened, and they shall be speechless with despair. We do not wrong, themselves.


Koran 55:41-52
..That is the Hell which the unbelievers deny. They shall wander between fire and water fiercely seething. Which of your Lord's blessing would you deny ?

Koran 76:1-5
For the unbelievers We have prepared chains and fetters and a blazing Fire...

Koran 73:12
We have in store for the unbelievers heavy fetters and a blazing fire, choking food and harrowing torment: on the day when the earth shall quiver with all its mountains, and the mountains crumble into heaps of shifting sand.

Koran 77:20-77:50
Woe on that day to the disbelievers! Begone to the Hell which you deny! Depart into the shadow that will rise high in three columns, giving neither shade nor shelter from the flames, and throwing up sparks as huge as towers, as bright as yellow camels...Eat and enjoy yourselves awhile. You are wicked men..."

Koran 8:73
The unbelievers give aid and comfort to each other. If you fail to do likewise, there will be disorder in the land and great corruption.

Koran 21:96-21:101
..The unbelievers shall stare in amazement, crying: 'Woe to us! Of this we have been heedless. We have done wrong.' You and your idols shall be the fuel of Hell; therein you sall all go down.

Koran 33:7-12
...But for the unbelievers He has prepared a woeful punishment...

Koran 44:40-49
..The fruit of the Zaqqum tree shall be the unbelievers's fruit. Like dregs of oil, like scalding water, it shall simmer in his belly. A voice will cry: 'Seize him and drag him into the depths of Hell. Then pour out scalding water over his head, saying: "Taste this, illustrious and honourable man! This is the punishment which you have doubted."

Koran 52:1-52:15
..On that day they shall be sternly thrown into the fire of Hell, and a voice will say to them: 'This is the Fire which you denied...Burn in its flames. It is the same whether or not you show forbearance. You shall be rewarded according to your deeds.'

Koran 31-37
And burn ye him in the blazing fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits. This was he that would not believe in allah Most high amd would not encourage the feeding of the indignant. So no friend hath he here this day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds.

Koran 56:52-56
Ye shall surely taste of the tree Zaqqum. Then will ye fill your insides therwith, and drink boiling water on top of it. Indeed ye shall drink like diseased camels raging with thirst. Such will be their entertainment on the day of Requital!

Koran 69:30-37
We shall say: 'Lay hold of him and bind him. Burn him in the fie of Hell, then fasten him with a chain seventy cubits long. For he did not believe Allah the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Today he shall be friendless here; filth shall be his food, the filth which sinners eat...

Koran 2:39
Those who reject faith shall be the companions of the Fire.

Koran 2:89-90
The curse of Allah is on the unbelievers... humiliating is the punishment.

Koran 13:13
..He hurls his thunderbolts at whom he pleases Yet the unbelievers wrangle about Allah..

Koran 58:5
Those who resist Allah and his messenger will be humbled to dust.

Koran 70:15-16
The fire of Hell will pluck out his being right to the skull..

Koran 5:10
As for those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the heirs of Hell.
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Doesn't this message prove that you are a bigot who lives to eat babies and kill anyone who is not white and Christian?

What do you mean it doesn't? The truth doesn't mean anything! You can't handle the truth!

Just kidding, really. This needs to be said. Those who live by the Koran or by the Bible literally will turn the entire world into a lifeless wasteland. I often wonder if that is the reason for the books.
 
This thread is quite pointless. Yes, the Qur'an does say that unbelievers will be punished with hell, as does Hinduism/Buddhism/Christianity/etc.

As SAM said, if you truly don't believe Islam is the "correct" religion, then you shouldn't worry about these verses. After all, if you truly believe that Islam is false, these verses need not worry you.
 
There is a big difference between God judging on the final day who is worthy of Paradise and who is not, and people judging other people on this earth.

God has the right to judge people on spirituality.

Men do not have the right to coerce or force anyone into any religion.

Muslim belief is simply to let God decide on matters of faith.

2.256 There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

2.113 And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.

7.87 And if there is a party of you who believe in that with which am sent, and another party who do not believe, then wait patiently until Allah judges between us; and He is the best of the Judges.
 
islam_europe.jpg
 
DiamondHearts said:
Muslim belief is simply to let God decide on matters of faith.
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Koran 22:19-22:23
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Sclading water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'
 
I simply find the notion of one entity condemning another for not worshiping it very primitive. Almost a childlike mentality. LIke a teenage boy who wants the other boys to respect him - Chimp or Ape like really. A cross spoilt little prat throwing a hissyfit and threatening anyone who doesn't love It.

Pathetic

The verses listed by the opening post demonstrate a God that is, at times, crewel to those that do not worship It. It's a simple fact - no one here would disagree to it. The God is a reflection of the culture and this one seems to fit perfect within it's origin.

Michael II
 
Willy is under the mistaken impression that in the Bible god never got people to kill anyone.
 
Willy said:
Jews and Christian's books don't say anything like:

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.
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I agree with you that the Christian books are a little less severe. The Old Testament can often be just as bad as that Koran verse, and there are still some people who believe in it (insomuch as it suits their prejudices). Thankfully, they rarely act on it (I haven't heard of any of them actually stoning anyone to death lately.) But there are the occasional abortion clinic workers, gay people, etc.
 
But if you read the New Testament, you will find that Jesus never gives permission as a True Believer to punish any nonbeliever here on earth, over his faith.

Using the KJV this time, in John 8:1 - 11 scribes and Pharisees had caught a woman in the act of adultery (the woman commonly referred to as the prostitute) and told Jesus who was teaching in the temple that the Mosaic Law required she be stoned to death. Trying to make an opportunity of this to trick Jesus that they might accuse Him, they, with stones in hand, asked Jesus what He says about the Law. After Jesus tried to ignore their repeated questioning, He told them "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." One by one each man dropped his stone and walked away.

Jesus was not arguing with the judgment. Nor was Jesus arguing the law nor the woman's guilt. Jesus was arguing with our right to execute the woman. Once all the men had dropped their stones Jesus confronted the woman and asked her if any of the men were still there to condemn her. When she answered "No man, Lord", Jesus told her that neither did He - He forgave her of her sin. He did not excuse the sin of adultery/prostitution, he forgave her of it. All that is sinful before forgiveness is still sinful after forgiveness. Not only was Jesus not afraid to call a sin a sin, He was not afraid to call a sinner a sinner. He even reminded her of the sin of adultery/prostitution by telling her "Go and sin no more."

The point of this as applicable to this article? Jesus did not argue the act of judging the chosen behavior of the adulteress/prostitute.
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What exactly did Jesus mean in Matthew 7 when he said “Judge not, that ye be not judged”? Based on the context of the scripture, he was talking about those who were so quick to point out the faults of other people without mercy and at the same time turned a blind eye to their own sins. If Jesus meant that no one ever had the right to confront others about their wrongdoing because all men are sinners, he would never have sent prophets to tell people to repent. He also would not have then said in John 7 “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment,” when he was accused of breaking the sabbath laws. So apparently he does want us to make judgments. Otherwise, he would be contradicting himself, making him a sinner (which he isn’t).

Paul further clarifies what Jesus meant in Matthew 7:

Romans 2:1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? …

21Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

It is clear in other scriptures that God expects us to make judgments, but they must be made with love:

Philippians 1:9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

So when I as a Christian point out sin that is going on around me, it’s not because I’m better than anyone, it’s because I love God and I desire to see his will done in the lives of others as his will is done in heaven. In the process of judging, I must also examine myself.

Here are some more popular quotes by those who don’t want to confront sin or be confronted:

“He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone.”

“Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm!” (If the person is a pastor or preacher)

“All of us have sinned and fall short of God’s glory”

–posted by Harry A. Gaylord–
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Kadark said:
This thread is quite pointless. Yes, the Qur'an does say that unbelievers will be punished with hell, as does Hinduism/Buddhism/Christianity/etc.

As SAM said, if you truly don't believe Islam is the "correct" religion, then you shouldn't worry about these verses. After all, if you truly believe that Islam is false, these verses need not worry you.
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Really? when everything I see and read seems to show that many Moslems on earth believe that they have a right to punish all who they believe are unbelievers, and kill in the name of their religion, The True Believers of the New Testament understand and follow the teachings of our Prophets, and the True Prophet and Son of God, Jesus Christ, and his teachings that salvation is through Grace, and freely given and freely received, and that the proof of Faith and Judgment of that Faith in God, is up to God at the final judgment, not up to fallible humans with their own sinful nature driving the judgment.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Really? when everything I see and read seems to show that many Moslems on earth believe that they have a right to punish all who they believe are unbelievers, and kill in the name of their religion, The True Believers of the New Testament understand and follow the teachings of our Prophets, and the True Prophet and Son of God, Jesus Christ, and his teachings that salvation is through Grace, and freely given and freely received, and that the proof of Faith and Judgment of that Faith in God, is up to God at the final judgment, not up to fallible humans with their own sinful nature driving the judgment.
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That is so funny. I'm sure Jesus would be rolling in the aisles.
 
Michael said:
I simply find the notion of one entity condemning another for not worshiping it very primitive. Almost a childlike mentality. LIke a teenage boy who wants the other boys to respect him - Chimp or Ape like really. A cross spoilt little prat throwing a hissyfit and threatening anyone who doesn't love It.

Pathetic
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It is pathetic.People arguing over the dogma while they disregard or pay very little attention to the core spiritual message these religions contain.


The God is a reflection of the culture and this one seems to fit perfect within it's origin.

Michael II
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Exactly! I am surprised so many adults cannot realize this.Never ceases to amaze me!!
 
My Dear Willy,

i have read this thread you have started and carried on posting throughout with great patience, however i am really worried about how you interpret religious scriptures. BinLid, Mullah Omar and Co would be so proud of you!!! You interpret it just like them, perhaps you should go and teach the Quran in a Whabbist Madrasa somewhere in a the KSa or Pakistan

~~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak
 
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