i want help on this astral projection

[Crunchy Cat]

can anyone tell me why when i have been in that astral plane, that things are completely silent, and bluish?

Probably, because that's how your brain interpreted you ludid dream. I
read all the links that were provided during the start of the thread. I read
the testimonies, experiences, etc. People see environements in great detail,
fly around in the air, breathe in the ocean, fly into space, explore planets,
etc. I have done ALL of these things and A LOT more; however, as real /
super real / crystal clear as these experiences are, I know they are nothing
more than really nice lucid dreams. I even tested a bizarre hypothesis one
time for kicks (I think this would be a great occasion to share it). I met
a guy in a wheelchair in one of my lucid dreams. He was white, in his mid-30's,
and confirmed that he living in the U.S. (San Francisco as I recall). I asked
him for his name and phone number so we could chat about the dream when
I woke up. He gave them to me and I managed to remember both when I
woke up (which happened very shortly after). I called the number and
reached the home of a Mexican family (with very heavy accents). I asked
to speak with the guy from my dreams but no such person existed there.

Bottom line, with all the similarity in the description of 'Astral Projection'
and lucid dreams, its a natrual assertion that these folks just can't tell
that they are in a dream. Next thing you know everyone's using D&D
references to 'Astral Projection', 'Silver Cords', etc. and just associating pure
fantasy with a valid dreaming event.

Anyhow, Headache... if you can Astral Project then I am sure you could
tell me some details about an environment you are projecting in. I would love
to give you the opportunity to prove the claim, heck I'll even throw in $500
USD if you can do it. Up for a challenge?

 

[John Connellan]

Consider that in the reality we are in now, we define what the mind is such that things can happen outside of it. But the definition could just as well put all our experiences in the mind. How do you know if the monitor now in front of you is really there or if your mind just presents its image to you?

Because other minds see it as well. Thats the definition of reality I believe!

 

[John Connellan]

why dont you keep to your side of the anlytical fence and watch and learn,

Because I believe I can teach u guys on that side, a thing or two about logical thought

u are dealing with a topic that you obviously have had no personal experience in,

Thjis is exactly the logic I'm talking about. How'd u come to that conclusion? The same way u believe in God and an afterlife?

and subjects of a metaphisical nature tend to be open ended and therefore resilliant to scrutiny. in all scientific observation there is a control and an experiment... as soon as you analyse it, you become the experiment and lose control....YA?

Not really. There are many ways of testing if projection is actually the soul leaving. Some have even been mentioned. I can gurantee, (because other experiments have failed) that any such experiment u do will also fail.

 

[zanket]

Because other minds see it as well. Thats the definition of reality I believe!

Yes, a definition, not knowledge. That definition of reality that you believe includes the concept of minds separate from yours. A definition of reality need not include that; it could just be your mind imagining those other minds existing. When you say that AP is all in the mind, so could this reality be. In AP it appears that other minds can interact with you just like they can here.

 

[exsto_human]

Does it matter wether it's all in the mind or not? It's fun nonetheless.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Does it matter wether it's all in the mind or not? It's fun nonetheless.

Hey, I am not going to deny that its a fun thing . I would assert that it does
matter simply because it weakens ones power of reason to accept false claims. Poor education and misinformation suck.

 

[exsto_human]

Yes. I agree totaly. Beliefs suck. But is modern science realy holier than doubt?

After witnessing the sentiments shared by some people who hold science as one of the highest atainments of man kind. It's hard to believe that it is realy fully objective.

I would be totaly comfortable with a common view that went something like this:

Theory of Relativity: Most Probable
Quantum mechanics: Probable
String theory: Unknown
Parapsychology: Unknown

As opposed to:

Theory of Relativity: Most Probable
Quantum mechanics: Probable
String theory: Unknown
Parapsychology: False

Besides like I said before, I wouldn't be moved if I found out that all my experiences were simply an incredible coincidence and random REM-fluctuations with a hightened degree of concious controll. I would continue doing it and getting better at it, hoping to discover more and more of these incredible experiences.

The sheer implication of what this means for psychology is astounding, I'm very surprized that psychologists aren't paying more attention to this. Probably because we officialy don't have these experiences.

So to sum up, I've experienced things that tell me that my conciousness is not bound by physical boudraries, because I can move it through physical objects and retrieve information about the world that I couldn't have possibly know beforehand. But if it just so happens that my brain happened to generate the exact appearance of places and objects I haven't yet seen during my experiences, cool! That means I have a realy cool brain that can do these things, and I am happy nonetheless.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Yes. I agree totaly. Beliefs suck. But is modern science realy holier than doubt?

After witnessing the sentiments shared by some people who hold science as one of the highest atainments of man kind. It's hard to believe that it is realy fully objective.

I would be totaly comfortable with a common view that went something like this:

Theory of Relativity: Most Probable
Quantum mechanics: Probable
String theory: Unknown
Parapsychology: Unknown

As opposed to:

Theory of Relativity: Most Probable
Quantum mechanics: Probable
String theory: Unknown
Parapsychology: False

Besides like I said before, I wouldn't be moved if I found out that all my experiences were simply an incredible coincidence and random REM-fluctuations with a hightened degree of concious controll. I would continue doing it and getting better at it, hoping to discover more and more of these incredible experiences.

The sheer implication of what this means for psychology is astounding, I'm very surprized that psychologists aren't paying more attention to this. Probably because we officialy don't have these experiences.

So to sum up, I've experienced things that tell me that my conciousness is not bound by physical boudraries, because I can move it through physical objects and retrieve information about the world that I couldn't have possibly know beforehand. But if it just so happens that my brain happened to generate the exact appearance of places and objects I haven't yet seen during my experiences, cool! That means I have a realy cool brain that can do these things, and I am happy nonetheless.

Ahh yes science... the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. Nothing holy or
unholy about it. It is what it is.

Parapsychology is very real. The claims it asserts are very false. As for
theories, it's just a matter of making empirical observations and modling...
nothing more. Any child could do it.

If you would not be 'moved' by the knowledge that everything is in your head,
then it sounds like a personal emotional challange. I've done things in my
head that are profound beyond profound. Experiences that would make
anyone shake and repeat 'oh my God'. However, these experiences ARE
in my head. I think it's increadible and I often feel empowered as a result
despite the fact that its all in the brain.

I am sure there are many studies published on lucid dreaming (by
psychologists, by physiologists, and all sorts of other researchers). I am
not sure what kind of profound implications you are expecting to be
unearthed in such studies.

If you honestly believe that your lucid dreams are showing the external
environment then I would also extend my challange posted above to you.
However, what I can tell you from personal experience is that some people's
brains can construct increadible landscapes that you've never visited before.
It can just do really cool things when you're dreaming.

 

[exsto_human]

If you would not be 'moved' by the knowledge that everything is in your head,
then it sounds like a personal emotional challange.

What I'm saying is that, I won't break down and cry because my world view has been toppled. The experiences are in themselves nonetheless profound, and the implications of the fact that the mind can generate it's own autonomous reality without sensory input is incredibly significant for the construct of conciousness its self.

But the fact remains that not only seeing the physical world as it is without seeing it before, but also being able to communicate with others in this plain of conciousness and then being able to confirm this later with the people one communicated with while awake... There is realy no explenation for this from any one telling me that it didn't happen that I can accept.

As for your challenge, I'm not interested in the cash, but I would do it anyhow. What environment exactly do you want us to project to?

The chances that I would succeed are not very high simply because I am not a significantly proficient projector, I can do it sometimes but often not on demand, my most significant experiences have been unintentional and sporadic. But that doesn't mean I won't try.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

What I'm saying is that, I won't break down and cry because my world view has been toppled. The experiences are in themselves nonetheless profound, and the implications of the fact that the mind can generate it's own autonomous reality without sensory input is incredibly significant for the construct of conciousness its self.

But the fact remains that not only seeing the physical world as it is without seeing it before, but also being able to communicate with others in this plain of conciousness and then being able to confirm this later with the people one communicated with while awake... There is realy no explenation for this from any one telling me that it didn't happen that I can accept.

As for your challenge, I'm not interested in the cash, but I would do it anyhow. What environment exactly do you want us to project to?

The chances that I would succeed are not very high simply because I am not a significantly proficient projector, I can do it sometimes but often not on demand, my most significant experiences have been unintentional and sporadic. But that doesn't mean I won't try.

That sounds alot more healthy. Yes the experiences are no doubt profound
and fun! The sensory input thing is ultimately translated by portions of
the brain. When we're dreaming, these areas may be stiumlated.

As for meeting people in a lucid dream and confirming that meeting with
the person while awake, I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps the
confirmation conversation was made in vague generalities. Perhaps one
side of the conversation was serious and the other was fantasy. I can't
say; however, this is something that can certainly be tested for validity.

I am glad to hear you are up for the challenge. The cash offer still remains
if you are successful. Project into my computer room (where I am physically
at right now), and let me know what the text on the upper right corner
of my monitor's plastic frame says. If there is a problem with proximity then
let me know and we can make somee arrangements to get you over here
via PMing.

 

[exsto_human]

I am glad to hear you are up for the challenge. The cash offer still remains
if you are successful. Project into my computer room (where I am physically
at right now), and let me know what the text on the upper right corner
of my monitor's plastic frame says. If there is a problem with proximity then
let me know and we can make somee arrangements to get you over here
via PMing.

Your challenge is perhaps honest, but I must say that it is impossible for several reasons.

For one thing, I don't know where you live, and if my assumptions are correct you live in another country, presumably the USA. Getting to a generic location at a great distance is very hard, it's kind of like giving someone (with the magical ability to fly ) a map of the world then pointing at a place and saying "come into my room over here."

However getting to a well known place of which there are photographs, like the pyramids or the eifle tower, is much easier as one can visualize the place and project to it. Also getting to a room or building in the near vincinity is considerably easier than to one in a place far away. Which leads to the next problem which would be that I need to be near your home or prefarbly in it to do this. Which obviously is not possible considering that I live in Sweden.

Also text and numbers is for some reason a very hard thing to see, I have no idea why. But a series of easily recognizable shapes would be better. For example a series like circle-circle-rectangle-triangle-circle-square (in different simple colors perhaps), if this is too general the experiement could be repeated several times with different shape sequences.

These are just some suggestions on how to set up this experiment so that if you find someone near you who will accept the challenge you can work with them in a way that gives both the projector a high chance from his own side to succeed and the 'scientists' nice and fool-proof conditions.

However if you happened to live near a famous or easily recognizeable (visualizable) place you could perhaps send pictures of it and then put a very specific sign or object at a specific location at this place, then I might be able to project to that place and retrieve details. Pictures of your home from the outside might be enough, but it's less likely than a well known place.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Your challenge is perhaps honest, but I must say that it is impossible for several reasons.

For one thing, I don't know where you live, and if my assumptions are correct you live in another country, presumably the USA. Getting to a generic location at a great distance is very hard, it's kind of like giving someone (with the magical ability to fly ) a map of the world then pointing at a place and saying "come into my room over here."

However getting to a well known place of which there are photographs, like the pyramids or the eifle tower, is much easier as one can visualize the place and project to it. Also getting to a room or building in the near vincinity is considerably easier than to one in a place far away. Which leads to the next problem which would be that I need to be near your home or prefarbly in it to do this. Which obviously is not possible considering that I live in Sweden.

Also text and numbers is for some reason a very hard thing to see, I have no idea why. But a series of easily recognizable shapes would be better. For example a series like circle-circle-rectangle-triangle-circle-square (in different simple colors perhaps), if this is too general the experiement could be repeated several times with different shape sequences.

These are just some suggestions on how to set up this experiment so that if you find someone near you who will accept the challenge you can work with them in a way that gives both the projector a high chance from his own side to succeed and the 'scientists' nice and fool-proof conditions.

However if you happened to live near a famous or easily recognizeable (visualizable) place you could perhaps send pictures of it and then put a very specific sign or object at a specific location at this place, then I might be able to project to that place and retrieve details. Pictures of your home from the outside might be enough, but it's less likely than a well known place.

Nonesense, the challange is not impossible. There are just some obsticles
in the way. I am sure these can be removed.

I do live in the U.S. (as you presumed). California more specifically. I figured
that such a remote point on a global map would not be realistic. Lets make
some arrangements (perhaps on a future weekend) for you to fly from
Sweeden to California. You could do the 'projection' from 1 room away (or
any other local location of your choosing). If you are interested then PM
me and we'll swap contact info and I'll send you an address.

Thanks for suggesting the big public locations. The primary reason I would
not want to use them is because I can assert very little control over such
environments. So long as other people interact with it, there are countless
risks to the integrity of the experiment.

I am glad you mentioned that item about text being hard to read. This is
the case with dreams (lucid or otherwise). Text tends to be a little on the
dynamic and inconsistent side. Sometimes blurry, sometimes the letters are
constantly changing, sometimes the letters are not letters, etc. I do find
that the more tired I am the more dynamic text is going to be. If I see text
in a dream prior to waking up from a good nights sleep, it tends to be a little
more stable.

 

[zanket]

However, these experiences ARE in my head. I think it's increadible and I often feel empowered as a result despite the fact that its all in the brain.

How do you prove that they are in your head? I haven’t proven any linkage between realities to myself (and I don't try because there's usually some significant differences), but that doesn’t lead me to a conclusion that it’s all in my head. I just call it an alternate reality.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

How do you prove that they are in your head? I haven’t proven any linkage between realities to myself (and I don't try because there's usually some significant differences), but that doesn’t lead me to a conclusion that it’s all in my head. I just call it an alternate reality.

Test for REM.

 

[zanket]

That might prove that REM is involved, but not that it's all in your head. For many of mine I was semi-awake immediately before. I couldn't be in deep sleep for REM then.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Semi-awake, half baked, for goodness sake. Get some hardware and test
yourself for REM while in this 'altered conciousness'. Also consider this. The
brain is responsible for interpreting physical stimulus, facilitating memory,
facilitating emotional response, facilitating coherent thought, etc. If you're
really in some other plane of existance then the brain should only show
unconcious activity during such an event as something else is facilitating all
these goodies for ya.

 

[zanket]

If you're really in some other plane of existance then the brain should only show unconcious activity during such an event as something else is facilitating all these goodies for ya.

You could be right on the REM. However, you cannot prove that I do not experience an alternate reality, for that is proving a negative. The brain could show conscious activity while I experience an alternate reality.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

If we're talking about technical definition of 'proof' then you are correct. Logically, negatives cannot be proven; however, while we're being all
technical, warm, and fuzzy I will assert that the brain is stiumlated by
electrical impulses. They are generated by the body or the brain itself. For
the brain to provide basic services such as memory and emotion, electric
implulses would have to be hitting the brain in the right areas from a non-
brain source. This 'limitation' imposed by biology and physics would contradict
existing claims of 'Astral Projection'.

 

[exsto_human]

I'm sorry to decline your challenge Crunchy. It's realy not worth it because of several reasons. Among these being that I don't have the time, will or money to take an unsechedueled trip to the USA. $500 doesn't nearly cover the expenses of such a trip. Also the fact that it's unlikely that I will even project successfully under the conditions (jet lag, stress, out of practice). It would all be pointless.

This 'limitation' imposed by biology and physics would contradict
existing claims of 'Astral Projection'.

Perhaps the 'limitation' lies in the concept of the conciousness being a result of mere brain activity. Obviously the opposite cannot possibly be proven using conventional measuring instruments, so the only way is to prove that the conciousness can exist and move beyond physical boundraries, ie astral projection.

If you say that astral projection is not true because the brain needs stimulus your are using the biological definition as an axiom. It's not an axiom, but a theory like all else. Right now it seems to be the most likely one, but it's not an axiom.

 

[John Connellan]

Theory of Relativity: Most Probable
Quantum mechanics: Probable
String theory: Unknown
Parapsychology: Unknown

Actually I think Quantum theory is MORE probably than relativity isn't it?!

Anywhooo...................