I think it's fun to step on ants. So what?

[Orleander]

Are you serious ? lol

yeah, most people I know don't consider then animals. :shrug: They just don't.

 

[Enmos]

yeah, most people I know don't consider then animals. :shrug: They just don't.

I don't understand..

 

[(Q)]

Why should I care about the lives of little bugs that just crawl around and move stuff? As far as I care, I'm a higher and much huger life form, so my temporary amusement is more important to me than their tiny little lives. If the last thing the bastards get to see over their heads are the bottom of my giant, stinking feet about to crunch their puny little selves into jelly because I think it's funny, then tough luck for them. It's survival of the biggest.

Disagree?

Would you happen to be the Abrahamic god?

 

[swarm]

And that's where we reach an impasse. If it's perfectly acceptable to kill bugs by accident, then why isn't it perfectly acceptable to kill humans by accident?

1) Humans aren't bugs.
2) While not "perfectly acceptible," if there is no negligence then accidentally killing a human is generally not seen as a punishable offense.

if I'm joyriding in my car and I run someone over because I'm leaning down to drink some water, it's negligent, reckless, wrong, etc?

Because you weren't paying attention to your driving and therefore were negligent and killed some one. Other humans don't like that and are able to let you know about their thoughts on the matter. If you negligently mess with a fire ant mound they will also punish your negligence if given a chance.

The Buddhist precept about not harming other living beings is an acknowledgement that no living being likes to be harmed and they will object to it within their capacity to object. This becomes a source of suffering for both of you. But Buddhist precepts aren't the word of god, carved in stone and immutable. They are guideleines which have been worked out over the millenia to point out problem areas and ways to avoid them.

Going around hurting others is a bad idea.
Lying and stealing are bad ideas.
Misusing sex and intoxicants are bad ideas.

You are more than welcome to prove these observations for yourself, but you might expect doing so to be unpleasant.

 

[swarm]

Do you realise that us humans depend on other animals, large and small, for our own survival?

You do realize killing is irrevocably a part of how nature works?

We have population problems because we evolved dependant on predators and we have now removed all of our predators. It may be our undoing in the long run if we can't figure out how to keep our breeding under control.

Population crash and burn is a nasty way for a species to learn about environmental limits.

 

[Enmos]

You do realize killing is irrevocably a part of how nature works?

We have population problems because we evolved dependant on predators and we have now removed all of our predators. It may be our undoing in the long run if we can't figure out how to keep our breeding under control.

Population crash and burn is a nasty way for a species to learn about environmental limits.

I completely agree with you both.

 

[Thrylix]

by your own ideology therefore, the mosquitos are doing people a favor by making them sick with influenza virus.

That philosophy would mean that the humans being killed by those mosquitoes are going to be reincarnated as some lower life form, which isn't a favor. But if granny's been reincarnated as some ugly little beetle and I step on her, maybe she'll be reincarnated as a human again?

That sounds like a good thing.

 

[Thrylix]

1)
The Buddhist precept about not harming other living beings is an acknowledgement that no living being likes to be harmed and they will object to it within their capacity to object. This becomes a source of suffering for both of you. But Buddhist precepts aren't the word of god, carved in stone and immutable. They are guideleines which have been worked out over the millenia to point out problem areas and ways to avoid them.

Going around hurting others is a bad idea.
Lying and stealing are bad ideas.
Misusing sex and intoxicants are bad ideas.

You are more than welcome to prove these observations for yourself, but you might expect doing so to be unpleasant.

Going around hurting people is a bad idea, yeah. But you said yourself humans aren't bugs. I can't remember ever suffering for killing ants. Only the ants suffered, if you can even call it suffering. They're not even aware of their own lives. And seriously, why should I even care if they did? They're still not humans. I said if it were discovered that ants were intelligent, sentient beings like us then I probably wouldn't crush them anymore for fun. I don't know that I could stand watching where I placed my feet sixteen hours out of the day though.

 

[Enmos]

Going around hurting people is a bad idea, yeah. But you said yourself humans aren't bugs. I can't remember ever suffering for killing ants. Only the ants suffered, if you can even call it suffering. They're not even aware of their own lives. And seriously, why should I even care if they did? They're still not humans. I said if it were discovered that ants were intelligent, sentient beings like us then I probably wouldn't crush them anymore for fun. I don't know that I could stand watching where I placed my feet sixteen hours out of the day though.

You didn't suffer because most people are like you, although admittedly most are not quite as bad as you are.
You would have suffered if I caught you killing small animals for fun, believe me.

 

[lightgigantic]

Going around hurting people is a bad idea, yeah. But you said yourself humans aren't bugs. I can't remember ever suffering for killing ants.

so when you experience suffering in this life, what do you ultimately attribute it to?
the randomness of the universe?

Only the ants suffered, if you can even call it suffering. They're not even aware of their own lives.

I am sure that if your ass punctured your cerebral cavity within the space of 0.1 seconds you wouldn't have time to be aware of it ... much less post a message and tell us about it on sci

And seriously, why should I even care if they did? They're still not humans.

so what are your views on the treatment of individuals who display characteristics less than human (the comatose, the severely physically/mentally challenged etc)

I said if it were discovered that ants were intelligent, sentient beings like us then I probably wouldn't crush them anymore for fun. [/QUOTE
so you might have reservations about stomping on ants that could ride unicycles and smoke cigars?

I don't know that I could stand watching where I placed my feet sixteen hours out of the day though.

determining the extent to which accident or intention drive an act is the essence of morals and ethics

 

[Thrylix]

so when you experience suffering in this life, what do you ultimately attribute it to?
the randomness of the universe?

Sometimes, but sometimes there are direct consequences of actions that cause suffering. Squashing a bunch of ants hasn't done that, except to the ants that are too small and too unintelligent for me to care about.

so you might have reservations about stomping on ants that could ride unicycles and smoke cigars?

Maybe, maybe not. Ants destroy entire populations for no reason whatsoever. If they were scaled up in size they would be killing us too. It's pretty hard to feel anything for lifeforms that act that way. So would I still kill them? Well, I wouldn't actively seek to destroy them. But if I'm running at the track and there's an anthill in my path, well...

 

[Cellar_Door]

Originally Posted by Enmos
Things like pulling the wings off a fly, burning a cat

You can hardly throw those two acts into a sentence and call them equally bad. Firstly, it would take a hell of a lot longer for a cat to burn and, more importantly, a cat is a sentient being. That means that it would scream, yowl, roll its eyes in agony, try and rip the shit out of you and in other numerous ways make it absolutely CRYSTAL clear that you are torturing it. A fly just buzzes, much like it does when its wings are intact.

Anyway, the OP concerns ants, right? Ants are different - especially red ants - in that they provoke a universal desire amongst young children to destroy them. It's inexplicable in the light of the fact that these same children would probably vomit if they saw the legs being pulled off a kitten in the same way. Strange as it seems in writing, I did find it weirdly fascinating to maim and kill ants. Does that make me a sociopath? Don't be so wet.

 

[Enmos]

You can hardly throw those two acts into a sentence and call them equally bad. Firstly, it would take a hell of a lot longer for a cat to burn and, more importantly, a cat is a sentient being. That means that it would scream, yowl, roll its eyes in agony, try and rip the shit out of you and in other numerous ways make it absolutely CRYSTAL clear that you are torturing it. A fly just buzzes, much like it does when its wings are intact.

The fact that you can't relate to it's agony doesn't make it any better.

Anyway, the OP concerns ants, right? Ants are different - especially red ants - in that they provoke a universal desire amongst young children to destroy them. It's inexplicable in the light of the fact that these same children would probably vomit if they saw the legs being pulled off a kitten in the same way. Strange as it seems in writing, I did find it weirdly fascinating to maim and kill ants. Does that make me a sociopath? Don't be so wet.

I don't know about sociopath, but you'll never be a friend of me.
How do you make it acceptable for yourself to kill, hurt, or torture small animals ? Do you have any respect for life ?

 

[Enmos]

Ants destroy entire populations for no reason whatsoever. If they were scaled up in size they would be killing us too. It's pretty hard to feel anything for lifeforms that act that way. So would I still kill them? Well, I wouldn't actively seek to destroy them. But if I'm running at the track and there's an anthill in my path, well...

What about humans ?
Humans destroy entire populations for no reason whatsoever..
Do you find it pretty hard to feel anything for lifeforms that act that way when they are humans as well ?

 

[lightgigantic]

Thrylix

so when you experience suffering in this life, what do you ultimately attribute it to?
the randomness of the universe?
”
Sometimes, but sometimes there are direct consequences of actions that cause suffering. Squashing a bunch of ants hasn't done that, except to the ants that are too small and too unintelligent for me to care about.

The point I am making is that we have no scope for understanding the extent of our actions and reactions as they affect others ... although we display acute sensitivity to how they affect us.

You may mindlessly stomp on an ant colony but I am sure you wouldn't appreciate getting stomped on

“
so you might have reservations about stomping on ants that could ride unicycles and smoke cigars?
”
Maybe, maybe not. Ants destroy entire populations for no reason whatsoever. If they were scaled up in size they would be killing us too. It's pretty hard to feel anything for lifeforms that act that way.

Dude
that's exactly how you're acting!

So would I still kill them? Well, I wouldn't actively seek to destroy them. But if I'm running at the track and there's an anthill in my path, well...

ditto above

 

[Enmos]

Can we stomp on Thrylix now ?

 

[Orleander]

You can hardly throw those two acts into a sentence and call them equally bad. Firstly, it would take a hell of a lot longer for a cat to burn and, more importantly, a cat is a sentient being. That means that it would scream, yowl, roll its eyes in agony, try and rip the shit out of you and in other numerous ways make it absolutely CRYSTAL clear that you are torturing it. A fly just buzzes, much like it does when its wings are intact.....

agreed. Does a bug even feel pain?

 

[Cellar_Door]

I don't know about sociopath, but you'll never be a friend of me.
How do you make it acceptable for yourself to kill, hurt, or torture small animals ? Do you have any respect for life ?

I haven't killed ants with intent since I was a child. Nevertheless, I wouldn't hesitate to step on an ant that crossed my path. It's not that I would feel any vindictiveness towards it, I just wouldn't really care enough to stop and let the ant pass.
I feel compassion for, and campaign against, the destruction of ecosystems, habitats and the ongoing deterioration of our natural environment as a whole. HOWEVER, if I'm being honest, I don't have much regard for a solitary worker-ant's life. Nature is indifferent to the suffering of the individual, and as humans we undoubtedly value life more similar to ourselves than we value the lives of diminutive insects. And despite your self-righteous postings, I find it hard to believe that you are unaffected by this somewhat uncomfortably dispassionate trait. After all, generations of little boys and little girls have used magnifying glasses to destroy these little exoskeletal beings. For the record, I have never seen anyone stop in the street or step aside from their path to avoid stepping on an ant. Are you saying that these people have no 'respect for life'? What does that even mean?

 

[Enmos]

I haven't killed ants with intent since I was a child. Nevertheless, I wouldn't hesitate to step on an ant that crossed my path. It's not that I would feel any vindictiveness towards it, I just wouldn't really care enough to stop and let the ant pass.

Well, if you are looking at the ant walking there, putting your foot on it would be on purpose since you know it's there. And it's not like it takes a lot of effort to put you foot down a few inches from where you would have put it.
But what you are describing is still a long way off from killing small animals for fun only.

I feel compassion for, and campaign against, the destruction of ecosystems, habitats and the ongoing deterioration of our natural environment as a whole. HOWEVER, if I'm being honest, I don't have much regard for a solitary worker-ant's life. Nature is indifferent to the suffering of the individual, and as humans we undoubtedly value life more similar to ourselves than we value the lives of diminutive insects.

But you do value it, right ? Even though it's not human life ?
Besides, you are not nature, you are an individual as well. You can care about other individuals, human or not, there's no shame in that.

And despite your self-righteous postings, I find it hard to believe that you are unaffected by this somewhat uncomfortably dispassionate trait. After all, generations of little boys and little girls have used magnifying glasses to destroy these little exoskeletal beings. For the record, I have never seen anyone stop in the street or step aside from their path to avoid stepping on an ant. Are you saying that these people have no 'respect for life'? What does that even mean?

I'm not talking about kids. If I know the kids I try to explain to them why they shouldn't do it.
And yes, I step aside for insects and other small animals that cross my path.
Not stepping aside while you are well aware of their location means you step on them on purpose.

 

[Cellar_Door]

Well, if you are looking at the ant walking there, putting your foot on it would be on purpose since you know it's there. And it's not like it takes a lot of effort to put you foot down a few inches from where you would have put it.
But what you are describing is still a long way off from killing small animals for fun only.


But you do value it, right ? Even though it's not human life ?
Besides, you are not nature, you are an individual as well. You can care about other individuals, human or not, there's no shame in that.


I'm not talking about kids. If I know the kids I try to explain to them why they shouldn't do it.
And yes, I step aside for insects and other small animals that cross my path.
Not stepping aside while you are well aware of their location means you step on them on purpose.

Firstly, who put the the word 'ants' in my post in red?

Secondly, I do value the contribution of the ants' nest to my garden. However, like I said, I have little regard for a solitary worker. In fact,the only situation in which I could see myself giving a toss about an individual ant is if it stung me. I'm not going to lie to make myself sound better, nor can I particularly help what I think, I just feel that an individual ant is completely inconsequential to my existence. I am also sure that this is a sentiment shared by many others.

You still haven't answered my question: what do you mean when you describe a 'respect for life'?