Humans are robots

[cluelusshusbund]

Can you link me to a robot capable of knowing that? (I assume it was the first sentence you were reacting to).

No... i dont know for certan if what i said is true.!!!

 

[Doreen]

No... i dont know for certan if what i said is true.!!!

Do you have any reason to suspect that a robot out there is self-aware?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

No idea. But everything else we talk about is something we learned via consciousness. Even words like 'brain' refer to experiences we had or other people had. Experiences that occurred in consciousness. (very hard to get around sloppy wording when referring to consciousness, but that was the best I could do.)

Yeah i thank a calculator is jus as "conscious" as a human... its jus that what we thank of as human consciousness is so complex it seems "magical" to us.!!!

 

[Doreen]

Yeah i thank a calculator is jus as "conscious" as a human... its jus that what we thank of as human consciousness is so complex it seems "magical" to us.!!!

So is it just human-made artifacts that are conscious? How about trees? A tree is much more complicated than a calculator.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Do you have any reason to suspect that a robot out there is self-aware?

I thank the only diference in human an mechanical robots is that humans are biological... an no i dont know of any evidence of a mechanical robot which is complex enuff to match human self awarness.!!!

 

[Doreen]

I thank the only diference in human an mechanical robots is that humans are biological... an no i dont know of any evidence of a mechanical robot which is complex enuff to match human self awarness.!!!

I notice you said 'match' a human in self-awareness. Adn then the other post with calculators having some consciousness. You are starting to make panconsciousness noises, at least in relation to devices.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

So is it just human-made artifacts that are conscious? How about trees? A tree is much more complicated than a calculator.

If trees had the sensory input humans have an able to process it like humans do... then trees coud also preceive themselfs as bein self-aware.!!!

 

[Doreen]

I thank the only diference in human an mechanical robots is that humans are biological.

As an 'only' difference this might be a rather huge one. It's a bit like saying the only difference between the Sun and a bacteria is that the bacteria is biological.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I notice you said 'match' a human in self-awareness. Adn then the other post with calculators having some consciousness. You are starting to make panconsciousness noises, at least in relation to devices.

Coud be... i dont know what panconsciousness is.!!!

 

[Doreen]

If trees had the sensory input humans have an able to process it like humans do... then trees coud also preceive themselfs as bein self-aware.!!!

Trees do sense. They react in all sorts of ways to their environment, relating to temperature, water presence. They even communicate with each other. If there are pests in nearby trees, these trees release chemicals that cause other trees to take defensive measures. Trees sense sunlight and even more towards it. They move around obstacles both on the micro with roots and on the macro with branches and trunks.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I thank the only diference in human an mechanical robots is that humans are biological. ”

As an 'only' difference this might be a rather huge one. It's a bit like saying the only difference between the Sun and a bacteria is that the bacteria is biological.

In respect to consciousness... an the complexity of the consciousnes.!!!

 

[Doreen]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
I thank the only diference in human an mechanical robots is that humans are biological. ”



In respect to consciousness... an the complexity of the consciousnes.!!!

But you said you thought machines could be conscious. So it seems like you don't consider that difference so telling.
You:

Yeah i thank a calculator is jus as "conscious" as a human... its jus that what we thank of as human consciousness is so complex it seems "magical" to us.!!

!

 

[cluelusshusbund]

But you said you thought machines could be conscious. So it seems like you don't consider that difference so telling.

You:
“ Yeah i thank a calculator is jus as "conscious" as a human... its jus that what we thank of as human consciousness is so complex it seems "magical" to us.!!

oK... i dont thank consciousness is an entity unto itself... much less somptin that only a biological creature has (or a calculator)... the human brane is evolved to a pont whare we can comtimplate our ideas... but mos of us still see consciousness as somptin seperate from our mind/body... an in that regard i dont thank "consicousness" esists... in a calculator or a human... so i thank a calculator an a human are equal in "consciousness" in that nether one has consciousness.!!!

I thank mos peoples idea of "consciousness" is perty much based on ignerence... i thank a suffeciently complex computer woud be indistinguishable from human intelegence... an ironicaly... such a "robot" coud be jus as ignerent an thank that "consciousness" is som sort of magical an seperate entity from itself... lol.!!!

 

[Doreen]

oK... i dont thank consciousness is an entity unto itself... much less somptin that only a biological creature has (or a calculator)... the human brane is evolved to a pont whare we can comtimplate our ideas... but mos of us still see consciousness as somptin seperate from our mind/body... an in that regard i dont thank "consicousness" esists... in a calculator or a human... so i thank a calculator an a human are equal in "consciousness" in that nether one has consciousness.!!!

It sounds like you mean a 'soul'. Do you really think we are not aware, that we do not experience?

I thank mos peoples idea of "consciousness" is perty much based on ignerence... i thank a suffeciently complex computer woud be indistinguishable from human intelegence... an ironicaly... such a "robot" coud be jus as ignerent an thank that "consciousness" is som sort of magical an seperate entity from itself... lol.!!!

Well, maybe. Pretty speculative, but I do notice the 'I thank' s in there. But I wasn't assuming at the consciousness was a separate entity, it was more like I was saying it is the only entity we can be sure of. Everything else is deduced from portions of it. Every word, for example, is shorthand for certain experiences.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
oK... i dont thank consciousness is an entity unto itself... much less somptin that only a biological creature has (or a calculator)... the human brane is evolved to a pont whare we can comtimplate our ideas... but mos of us still see consciousness as somptin seperate from our [body]... an in that regard i dont thank "consicousness" esists... in a calculator or a human... so i thank a calculator an a human are equal in "consciousness" in that nether one has consciousness.!!! ”

It sounds like you mean a 'soul'.

Prolly mos people do see consciousness/soul as bein one an the sam... ie... not biological an therfor coud only be duplicated by a God... but i dont have such "beleifs" so i ant restricted in what i thank is posible.!!!

Do you really think we are not aware, that we do not experience?

I thank we have those abilities... an i thank "we" can duplicate those abilities.!!!
........................

“ I thank mos peoples idea of "consciousness" is perty much based on ignerence... i thank a suffeciently complex computer woud be indistinguishable from human intelegence... an ironicaly... such a "robot" coud be jus as ignerent an thank that "consciousness" is som sort of magical an seperate entity from itself... lol.!!! ”

Pretty speculative...

Yes... but i thank human "consciousness" is meerly biological complexity (not somptin magical) which can be duplicated thru suffeciently complex computers... an the trend toward mor powerful computers seems quite healthy an thrivin.!!!

...I wasn't assuming at the consciousness was a separate entity, it was more like I was saying it is the only entity we can be sure of. Everything else is deduced from portions of it. Every word, for example, is shorthand for certain experiences.

Well i ant certan of anythang... but that aside... i see the mind/body as the sam biological entity.!!!

 

[Cyperium]

Welp,
To todays date all research indicates we are 100% deterministic.
While there is quantum instability beyond the atom the atoms of our mind are stable.
Neurons are made of atoms and no thought or action has ever been demonstrated not to be 100% the product of their states.

The mind itself is following the same physics as your faucet to let you believe it is magic
Go on lets hear why people are the only thing in this universe to conduct electrical signals in such a manner...
How your thoughts prove that your thoughts are not made from just your mind!

It would be nice to hear you say this after you watch Jeff Hawkins part 1-5 on you tube as you do not know these things about how your mind works and are ignorant of what circuits your mind is made of. He will tell you things you have never heard because he has done the homework of truth. You will enjoy yourself more when you know how you work and won't be so uptight about what thinking is etc...

I do see what you mean, the uncertainties seem to disappear when things grow big, this is true for a limited time-period, but problems arise when we try to extend that time-period cause there are too many factors to count in, and in time you can be sure that even those miniature uncertainties with the atoms starts to play a part. A small change is doomed to trigger a big change sooner or later.

Our free will is your part of the process that chooses, when you understand that your free will isn't an illusion but actually a part of the system that chooses, then you will understand that it really is free. It is no illusion - and there is no magic involved.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

...problems arise when we try to extend that time-period cause there are too many factors to count in, and in time you can be sure that even those miniature uncertainties with the atoms starts to play a part. A small change is doomed to trigger a big change sooner or later.

Our free will is your part of the process that chooses, when you understand that your free will isn't an illusion but actually a part of the system that chooses, then you will understand that it really is free. It is no illusion - and there is no magic involved.

So we have free-will dew to miniature uncertanties.???

 

[Doreen]

Prolly mos people do see consciousness/soul as bein one an the sam... ie... not biological an therfor coud only be duplicated by a God... but i dont have such "beleifs" so i ant restricted in what i thank is posible.!!!

Right. I did not think you believed in souls. But it seemed like you were arguing against souls. For some reason.

Yes... but i thank human "consciousness" is meerly biological complexity (not somptin magical) which can be duplicated thru suffeciently complex computers... an the trend toward mor powerful computers seems quite healthy an thrivin.!!!

How do we know that consciousness is dependent on complexity? I mentioned in a post earlier that trees to in fact have senses and respond to each other and their environments. Might this not also be coupled with consciousness? If calculators can have consciousness, and these are really rather simple things compared with almost any biological organism, and you are open to them having consciuosness, might not a wide range of organisms be conscious?

Well i ant certan of anythang... but that aside... i see the mind/body as the sam biological entity.!!!

OK, but that's not quite a response to my point. I assume, also, that you are not certain about this mind body unity.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
...i thank human "consciousness" is meerly biological complexity (not somptin magical) which can be duplicated thru suffeciently complex computers... an the trend toward mor powerful computers seems quite healthy an thrivin.!!! ”

How do we know that consciousness is dependent on complexity?

I mentioned in a post earlier that trees to in fact have senses and respond to each other and their environments. Might this not also be coupled with consciousness?

If calculators can have consciousness, and these are really rather simple things compared with almost any biological organism, and you are open to them having consciuosness, might not a wide range of organisms be conscious?

Well it depends on how consciousness is defined... an what many people thank of as consciousness is that its som unknown somptin... or our sole/a magical-like thang which is bestowed on us by som higher power... ie... somptin seperate from the body... an what i thank "consciousness" is... that humans have evolved to a level of complexity that allows us to ponder the input from our sinses an make (aparent) choises based on that imput... an we label that ability as consciousness.!!!

Under the rite circumstances... trees coud also evolve in complexity to reach the level of bein able to ponder ther actions as we do.!!!

“ Well i ant certan of anythang... but that aside... i see the mind/body as the sam biological entity.!!! ”

OK, but that's not quite a response to my point. I assume, also, that you are not certain about this mind body unity.

Which of you'r ponts was my response lackin.???

No i ant certan about anythang... i thank people who are certan about thangs fall wit-in the relm of havin "beleifs"... such as... "im certan that my lovin father in heaven is my savior".!!!

As far as mind body unity... i dont thank thers such a thang as mental-illness... as if the "mental" is seperate from the body.!!!

 

[Doreen]

Well it depends on how consciousness is defined... an what many people thank of as consciousness is that its som unknown somptin... or our sole/a magical-like thang which is bestowed on us by som higher power... ie... somptin seperate from the body... an what i thank "consciousness" is... that humans have evolved to a level of complexity that allows us to ponder the input from our sinses an make (aparent) choises based on that imput... an we label that ability as consciousness.!!!

But how do we know that consciousness is dependent on complexity?

Under the rite circumstances... trees coud also evolve in complexity to reach the level of bein able to ponder ther actions as we do.!!!

and well, same question.

No i ant certan about anythang... i thank people who are certan about thangs fall wit-in the relm of havin "beleifs"... such as... "im certan that my lovin father in heaven is my savior".!!!

This would be a belief of yours. Beliefs are ideas we think are true.

As far as mind body unity... i dont thank thers such a thang as mental-illness... as if the "mental" is seperate from the body.!!!

then there's no much room for free will is there? And if there is free will, I am not sure what the difference would be between different beliefs being rational or irrational. One person's beliefs would be the equivalent of their hair color.