Civilization is stupid, it's time is rapidly coming to an end.
How would the world be different if we never had religion?
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what a complete crock of shit, religious morals are the morals that cause the problems, eradicate religion and you become a morally better person. http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=40731jayleew said:
also as I've said before my morals are vastly superior to any religious persons, as I do good things because I wish to, not because I can gain favour with a god.
If there were no religion, but just logic and morality, why would it not be moral to loot a store when the city goes underwater?
Logically, we would not steal from a store, underwater or otherwise, because the cost of crime is added to the cost of goods, thus the consumer, you, ultimately pays.
Logically, we would not want our goods from our store stolen, therefore we would not steal from others.
Morally, we are harming others by violating them and their privacy.
Morally, we would have to lie to all who ask about the goods, or would have to hide them from others, family and friends alike.
Please note that the above do not require religion but instead a sense of decency.
However, if there were no morality and logic, but just religion, why wouldn't we loot the store?
Stealing is a sin, sins can be forgiven. Let's hit the store!
Logically, we would not steal from a store, underwater or otherwise, because the cost of crime is added to the cost of goods, thus the consumer, you, ultimately pays.
Logically, we would not want our goods from our store stolen, therefore we would not steal from others.
Morally, we are harming others by violating them and their privacy.
Morally, we would have to lie to all who ask about the goods, or would have to hide them from others, family and friends alike.
Please note that the above do not require religion but instead a sense of decency.
However, if there were no morality and logic, but just religion, why wouldn't we loot the store?
Stealing is a sin, sins can be forgiven. Let's hit the store!
we're starving, we're thirsty, we've lost our homes and our way of life, we're traumatised, there's no sign of help from the government, we want to survive
I agree that is valid for some, but most reports are of stolen liquor, clothing and jewelry.
Caption: A man carries a bucket of beer from a grocery store in New Orleans, Thursday. (AP photo)
I agree that is valid for some, but most reports are of stolen liquor, clothing and jewelry.
Caption: A man carries a bucket of beer from a grocery store in New Orleans, Thursday. (AP photo)
The true practitioners of religions have almost nothing to do with society, it is a personal spiritual process. Popular religions that require only simplistic beliefs like: "However, its up to you to choose to accept God or not.", have many followers, but these people would join other social organizations if there wasn't a religious one. The world wouldn't be much different at all. They are just like the pagans that gathered to be entertained by the torture of Christians in huge stadiums, now these are the same people that advocate torture of muslims in Guantanimo. They still make up most of the Nascar crowd that watches expectantly for deadly crashes.
Now as far as the notion that Jesus taught things like your major choice is to accept God or not is just religion dumbed down for the masses, it reinforces the authority of the bishops to declare spiritual truths for the rest of us. But, this isn't how many early Christians interpreted Jesus. For them, God was a question, a spiritual venture into one's own nature, because we are all expressions of the same forces from which the universe grew.
Now as far as the notion that Jesus taught things like your major choice is to accept God or not is just religion dumbed down for the masses, it reinforces the authority of the bishops to declare spiritual truths for the rest of us. But, this isn't how many early Christians interpreted Jesus. For them, God was a question, a spiritual venture into one's own nature, because we are all expressions of the same forces from which the universe grew.
He must be thirsty. I would be, too. Jewelry is an easily transported form of wealth, and this is no less important for rebuilding your life than a loaf of bread or a bottle of water.
If you think this is a crock of shit, then get your head out of your bum and you would see more than shit. Wake up and get real!audible said:
The fact that a self-proclaimed Christian does not have morals or uses religion as a crutch, does not mean that it was the religious morals that caused the problems, but that the self-proclaimed Christian who did not follow their own moral system. In other words, religion is dangerous in the wrong hands. If you want an example of a society without religious morals, just look at the deteriorating society of the United States. There is a seperation of church and state. People are free to believe what they wish and do what they want to do behind closed doors, even illegal and immoral things, provided the illegal activity is not discovered. Because of this, without religion as the backbone of the society, we have more people everyday participating in illegal activity or immoral activity which changes the perception people have of what is right or wrong. Our constitution is being challenged everyday, and soon may fail us because our activity doesn't correspond to what the out-dated document says. It will be the destruction of what the American dream was all about, and America will not be as it was.
Being a good person is not unique to people with religion. Perfection is theists are after and as you know, no one is perfect. And, since we are not capable of perfection, the title must be given by a judge who is perfect.audible said:
I don't know about other religions beliefs, but Christians are not following scripture if they do things for the favour of God against their own will. That would be hypocritical, false, and bear no good fruit...only malice.
Popular religions that require only simplistic beliefs like: "However, its up to you to choose to accept God or not.", have many followers, but these people would join other social organizations if there wasn't a religious one. The world wouldn't be much different at all.
That is a crock, most social organizations don't preclude reality with fantasy. The world would be very different if people did simply join social organizations.
That is a crock, most social organizations don't preclude reality with fantasy. The world would be very different if people did simply join social organizations.
Most social organizations usually have some easily adopted creed that separates the in-group from the outsiders. Wether it's rioting sports fans or crusaders, the result is the same.
I once had a minister tell me that all sins were equal and forgiveable except one. He also said that the first sin was the unavoidable thinking of the sin. Sooooo If I would have believed that, what would have kept me from sinning? Since I can't keep from sinning anyway and all sins are equal and forgivable except one.... F**king stupid
And yet we have looters in New Orleans and many more good people doing bad things in the heat of the moment without thinking of the consequences. Instinct, spirit, gut-feelings tend to win over logic.(Q) said:
(Q) said:
I don't know about other religions concerning sin, but Christians who have that attitude do not know God. The Bible teaches against that loose attitude. This is why I said religion has the potential to sustain morality, I didn't say that it does sustain morality without complete dedication to its teachings. If everyone followed a single religion without having their own way, morality would be sustained, laws or not. The Christian religion teaches that when we sin, we are forgiven, pay the price, and are commanded to sin no more. "What shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid." That is just one of the many quotes to clear up that misunderstanding of what the Christian religion actually teaches.
Russ723 said:
The one sin is to say that Jesus is or is working in league with the devil. Namely the Holy Spirit working with the devil is blasphemy and will never be forgiven. Since you don't believe in Jesus, the son of God, you could say such a thing so don't worry about it.
Besides, only a follower of Satan would blaspheme the unforgivable sin.
And yet we have looters in New Orleans and many more good people doing bad things
I would imagine most are god-fearing Christians, with not an atheist among them. But that's pure speculation on my part. Maybe one or two atheists.
The Christian religion teaches that when we sin, we are forgiven, pay the price, and are commanded to sin no more.
Yet, they continue to sin because they know they'll be forgiven, commnaded or not.
Even though they are commanded in the first place not to sin, they do so anyway. Post-commanding is therefore futile.
Or perhaps there is a limit to the amount of sin one is able to achieve before forgiveness is abandoned?
I would imagine most are god-fearing Christians, with not an atheist among them. But that's pure speculation on my part. Maybe one or two atheists.
The Christian religion teaches that when we sin, we are forgiven, pay the price, and are commanded to sin no more.
Yet, they continue to sin because they know they'll be forgiven, commnaded or not.
Even though they are commanded in the first place not to sin, they do so anyway. Post-commanding is therefore futile.
Or perhaps there is a limit to the amount of sin one is able to achieve before forgiveness is abandoned?
What about Satan encouraging us to eat of the fruit of knowledge? Surely God put it there for a reason. Also, the devil is in charge of hell, a great service for Christians, who love to threaten people with hell for not believing.jayleew said:
(Q) said:
There is a limit. God has never been a game player. Those who play games like, "I'm a Christian, but I just want to steal this thing," have consistently been destroyed, cursed, or plagued in the old testament.
If there was no limit, why would God ever need to return to mop up the supposed mess we are going to create? Fact or fiction, the Bible teaches that God is coming back to say, "Enough is enough, I've given you X amount of years to deal with your issues."
Realistically, how can we be perfect? We have all told our "white" lies and such. Don't we call it "white" just to make ourselves feel better? Are we complacent and content in knowing that we cannot be perfect?
The Bible teaches to always be striving for perfection.
We are going off on a tangent here, but perhaps if you knew the Christian religion better you could make a better assesment of your position on the topic. Still, regardless of the religion, if we all followed it, the world would be at peace. It is our debates on the issues, namely our religion, that fuels the wars.
Whereas, if no one followed religion, but a universal set of morals? I think if the morals were set in stone and could not be changed easily, there would be peace. The anti-Christ is supposed to do this in the future so that we all follow his banner. He will unite the world into peace. Then, he will set himself as a god. Sounds like Egypt on a global scale. Is this possible? Sure.
Even so, in a society of peace like this, the individuals are still free to do as they wish behind closed doors like raping and murdering. They may get caught, they may not. Religion is a deterrent, only if you can get everyone to agree on it. So, again I say that religion has the potential to benefit mankind in a better way than today, and that without it, we will always have crime.
Imperfectionist said:
What does the Bible say that Jesus came and did? Did he stand on the street corner yelling that we are going to hell for not believing? I think many Christians today are not following their Christ's teachings. The Bible reads that Jesus said that he did not come to condemn the world, but to save it. The rest of his time, as recorded, was spent teaching, healing, and saving, not condeming. He didn't even condemn the Pharisees, who he called a brood of vipers! So, why are the Christians condemning the world if they are supposed to be trying to be like Jesus? All this hype on W.W.J.D. (What Would Jesus Do) and yet they preach that God's wrath will come on those who do not believe. That is not for us ever to say. Not if they follow Christ's example which is where the word "Christian" comes from.
This:
But I appreciate what you say about Jesus' teachings and following his example rather than preaching hellfire.
...seems to contradict with this:
But I appreciate what you say about Jesus' teachings and following his example rather than preaching hellfire.
Imperfectionist said:
How so? The first statement says that we are not to condemn. The second says that there is an unforgivable sin. Forgivable sin or not, if Christians follow the example of Christ, they should not condemn. As far as sin goes, God will not allow any sin into heaven, forgivable or not. Does that mean just because the sin is not forgivable that we actually should condemn someone? We cannot say anything concerning condemnation, nor do we have an example of such.