How will religion handle this.......

Micro is small scale changes within a species, often in observable time periods. Macro is actually what most people think of when evolution is discussed, large scale changes that separate species, made over long time scales.

And there's plenty of evidence for both. Micro has been observed directly in current species, while the fossil record through dating and transitional fossils has provided evidence of macro.

And of course this is a very simplistic description of a much more complex picture.

So no, life won't fill in gaps here on earth, but it could possibly show trends of evolution that might be independent of where the life is. Kind of like a second experiment...
 
yep, there are several definitions of macro-evolution floating around, so it makes no sense to discuss it if you not first come to an agreement how you define macro-evolution in this discussion...otherwise it is just chaos, because people are not on the same wave-length
 
CounslerCoffee, the rantings of a madman. Threats across a medium with no physical contact or no identity........coward.

mohamed, rest easy tonight...I have no plans to "enter" into your business. If you do not wish to answer my questions then that is that.

Has anybody ever considered the notion that:

1) Religion/God only exists because man is the only being with sufficient intelligence to create such a system. No man....No god.

2)If the information passed on by religions is divine, then why is it so easily seen to be falible and unprovable. Why are religious books littered with historical inaccuracies and fictional events? Why are major historical events portrayed completely differenly in different religions?

My point is simple, yet it is not answered....I am just attacked and abused for even asking it.

How would your religion cope with the idea of sentient life on another planet? If god made man in his own image......how would your religion of choice explain how he created another race that is totally different from human kind.

DON'T ABUSE/ATTACK ME, JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION OF NOT.
 
Bridge,

YOU WROTE: "Secondly, the discovery of alien life wouldn't necessarily eliminate or alter the direction of a particular religion unless that particular life form was in direct conflict with our understandings of matters of faith and deity."

The teachings of christianity are in direct conflict with many of the teachings of Islam. Therefore this point applies already to our own planet. You will have to do better than that my friend.......
 
MShark,

It appears that you may have been spending too much time peeping up the girls dresses in Sunday school. I was also the victim of the christian processing plant, and I seem to remember that:

"God created man in his own image"...

So tell me if we find 2 headed half sheep half pig martians who can talk.....are they also created in gods own image?
 
Originally posted by Gifted
The bible never said he didn't create other worlds with other life, in fact(can't remember exactly where), He says he has "created worlds without number, which would indicate that there are other worlds. whether or not those planets have intelligent life, and what their theology is, would be the problem. In Joshua, God tells Isreal that he would gather them even if they were scattered to the stars. Something to point out is that while God said that He created the earth, and probably the sun, moon, and a fair number of stars, the actual universe still is open for claims of credit.
Click to expand...

Please keep in mind that I am no Bible thumper.
I am definately not one of those that believe that the Bible should be taken even close to literally.
I am not even Christian.
But, what the Judeo-Christian cults might say is...

Hebrews 1:2
hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Click to expand...

Hebrews 11:2
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Click to expand...

Note that worlds is plural in both cases.
If the worlds were framed by the Word, it is not against the Bible, its teachings or Christainty to believe that he could have created those other worlds in the same mannner and image as THIS one.
The Bible does not say that this is the ONE andy ONLY world, or that we are the one and only life form in teh universe.
The Bible was spake unto the men of Earth because it is teh rules and history of THIS world, that is why it doesn't speak of the rules and history of THOISE worlds.

Sounds almost believable, doesn't it?
 
one_raven,

I see where you are coming from, but I totally disagree with your source. The bible cannot be used as evidence....as its pages have been changed, rewritten, disputed and fabricated over the years.

Someone already pointed out at the start of this post that somebody would find a bible passage that could be interpreted to explain any possibility. This is how religions survive and keep members. An example would be, suicide is forbidden in Islam. However suicide bombers were granted immunity from hell due to a loop hole found in the koran. I would apply the above to what you have posted up,

Cheers

Jus
 
I am not saying that they would be right in doing so.
Nor am I saying that I would agree with them.

However, they will very well find something such as what I posted to satisfy them completely, justified and correct or not.

People will always find a way to believe what they want to believe.

Sad, I know, but a sad reality.
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
"God created man in his own image"...

So tell me if we find 2 headed half sheep half pig martians who can talk.....are they also created in gods own image?
Click to expand...

Exactly.
It says God created MAN in his own image.
It doesn't say God created 2 headed half sheep half pig martians in his own image.

Which, sadly, would likely be used as an argument that man is superior over these martians since WE were created in Dad's image therefore we shall have dominion over the aliens just as we "rightfully" have dominion over all other "BEASTS".

*sigh*
 
Hebrews 1:2

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hebrews 11:2

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Note that worlds is plural in both cases.
If the worlds were framed by the Word, it is not against the Bible, its teachings or Christainty to believe that he could have created those other worlds in the same mannner and image as THIS one.
The Bible does not say that this is the ONE andy ONLY world, or that we are the one and only life form in teh universe.
The Bible was spake unto the men of Earth because it is teh rules and history of THIS world, that is why it doesn't speak of the rules and history of THOISE worlds.
Click to expand...
You got my point.

It says God created MAN in his own image.
It doesn't say God created 2 headed half sheep half pig martians in his own image.

Which, sadly, would likely be used as an argument that man is superior over these martians since WE were created in Dad's image therefore we shall have dominion over the aliens just as we "rightfully" have dominion over all other "BEASTS".
Click to expand...
I hope we're better than that. The other thing I was saying was that the biggest impact would be thier existance, and what they believe.
 
re: aliens

I think we misunderstood each other here:

Bridge, YOU WROTE: "Secondly, the discovery of alien life wouldn't necessarily eliminate or alter the direction of a particular religion unless that particular life form was in direct conflict with our understandings of matters of faith and deity."

The teachings of christianity are in direct conflict with many of the teachings of Islam. Therefore this point applies already to our own planet. You will have to do better than that my friend.......
Click to expand...


Let me clarify my original line of thinking.

Immediately following my quoted sentence above I said:

>"The thing I also chuckle about is that people immediately think alien life forms are going to be recognizable to us in the first place. It is always depicted as bipedal, almond shaped eyes, long slender fingers, etc. Talk about ego. Alien life could totally be all around us and we might not have the ability to detect it. It could be macro or micro in nature. It could be something that isn't stable enough to be detected by any human method. "<



You're thinking more along the lines of mutual faith or conflict over religion. I was thinking along the lines of this alien life being higher or lower in intelligence. If the alien life form was higher, the likelihood would be then it would have some superior knowledge and understanding of the universe, it's properties, it's physical laws, the origins surrounding its creation and perhaps have a much more radical approach to understanding God or whatever the causative entity is. If the life form was equal to or lower in intelligence I wouldn't expect anything to be altered in mankind's current attitudes towards God and religion.
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
Just a quick one to gather some ideas:

If man sent a mission to Mars, and life was discovered under some frozen water. How would the religions of the world cope with the problem...?
Click to expand...

I think your question is as to how Christianity would cope with this. Isn't it?
 
UltiTruth,

Unfortunatly for me I have been through the christian processing plant that is the catholic church, so my question is probably swaying that way whether I like it or not. However I know there are other religions that have brash creation stories that would be seriuosly effected by such an event as the one posted....I would like to know.....
 
Bridge,
Speaking of cop outs.....What evidence do you have that enables you to predict what religious paradigm they would or would not fit in to? Why would they have to fit in one in the first place?
Click to expand...
That is my point. They would not fit in an earthly religious paradigm...obviously.

I have no basis to make that assumption. Do you think they wouldn't worship Jesus?
Click to expand...
Ha! No, I do not think they would worship jesus. I find it laughable to consider a race from another planet would worship a man that lived on this planet. Therefore, all the bible quoting is ridiculus.

Obviously you need to make your case or you're just wasting bandwidth with your arguement. I quoted the Bible to raise awareness of the Nephilim. If the Nephilim were to make themselves available, I'm sure that there are missionaries out there who would take a stab at it.
Click to expand...
I made my case. Here it is again: The chance that alien life would somehow worship jesus, or fit into any other major religious paradigm, is so unlikely... it is to be considered impossible. Therefore, your attempt to relate words written in the bible to alien life is silly.

Good day sir! :)
 
Originally posted by jusmeig
However I know there are other religions that have brash creation stories that would be seriuosly effected by such an event as the one posted....I would like to know.....
Click to expand...

I do know about Hinduism, and it does talk about the Universe, not just the earth... and says creation and destruction are periodic.
And Gods descend from above (aliens!!!???)

;)
 
I made my case. Here it is again: The chance that alien life would somehow worship jesus, or fit into any other major religious paradigm, is so unlikely... it is to be considered impossible. Therefore, your attempt to relate words written in the bible to alien life is silly.
Click to expand...
I don't know how to say this without sounding dumb, but, what paradigm? Where is there something(refering more to the Chrstian texts, but others please comment) that says yes or no to the existance of alien life?


The impression I've been getting is that religion would adapt to the situation. For some people, interstellar travel would be a problem, intelligent alien life would just compound it. Something else to consider would be how would society take it? Most religions play to people's desires, so, what would people be asking thier ministers for?
 
Problem is Capn'

you don't have a case to make.

The chance that alien life would somehow worship jesus, or fit into any other major religious paradigm, is so unlikely... it is to be considered impossible.
Click to expand...

To be considered impossible?

That sounds familar. Don't creationsts say that about evolution?

So it's perfectly alright for you to assign zero on the probability scale that an alien would worship Jesus and arbitrarily assign a higher probability to the notion that they wouldn't worship him?

That's the same scam you use to debate creationists isn't it, telling them they can't assign zero to the probability scale of random chemical reactions combining to form complex digital codes like that found in DNA? That's not only hypocritical, it's a ridiculous claim.

Once again, since your reading comprehension skills seem somewhat lacking, here is what I said in reference to the Bible quotes:

There is much debate whether the Nephilim are angels, demons or aliens. I'm not taking a stand on whether these "Nephilim" are proof of ET's in the Bible. I just want to point out that it is a possibility .
Click to expand...

Notice, that unlike yourself, I did not assign any IMPOSSIBLE (ie. zero) probability level to my claim.

You have a nice one too. :)
 
Here's a hypothetical twist on the question:

Say an alien comes to earth, and using highly superior technology, presents himself as the god of the Bible. He throws a few miracles around just as proof, but more importantly, after this convincing he claims that the Bible itself is a load of crap, written originally to glorify him, but man screwed it all up, and it should be tossed. There was no Jesus, no Adam and Eve...toss it, and he'll create a new, correct religion to follow.

How many theists will do just that? How many would throw everything they believed in away, based on the unexplained?

For the agnostics, would you question the validity still, or are you enough on the fence to be swayed by a simple unexplained "miracle"? Keep in mind, he is not a god, but from our knowledge, he's doing godlike things. We can't show he's not a god...not without some work anyway. Would you jump and worship the first miracle tossing being who arrives, or be skeptical still?

And for the atheists...here's possible proof of god. At what point do you stop asking for more proof? Do you accept for now that he's a god, but try and note down any discrepancies? How does one handle a superior being, without risking his wrath?

I play the ST V line in my head, probably one of the few good things out of that movie...

"Excuse me...what does God need with a starship?"
 
I don't know how to say this without sounding dumb, but, what paradigm?
Click to expand...
I am just saying aliens would not fit into major earthly religions...ie. they would not follow the writings of the koran, bible, etc.

Bridge,
To be considered impossible?
Click to expand...
I would give it such a small perentage of possibility as to render it virtually impossible. I don't wish to argue semantics with you so spare me the nothing is impossible speech...

That sounds familar. Don't creationsts say that about evolution?
Click to expand...
Probably, who cares?

So it's perfectly alright for you to assign zero on the probability scale that an alien would worship Jesus and arbitrarily assign a higher probability to the notion that they wouldn't worship him?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't assign it 0 but maybe .00001 or something. You wouldn't assign a higher possibility to aliens NOT worshipping jesus? If not, you are certified wacko.

That's the same scam you use to debate creationists isn't it, telling them they can't assign zero to the probability scale of random chemical reactions combining to form complex digital codes like that found in DNA? That's not only hypocritical, it's a ridiculous claim.
Click to expand...
Whoa calm down there, what is so hypocritical and ridiculus? Yes, I think it is possible ambiogenesis occurred naturally.

Notice, that unlike yourself, I did not assign any IMPOSSIBLE (ie. zero) probability level to my claim.
Click to expand...
That is what this is all about? Would it have made you feel better if I said 'extremely unlikely'?

It annoys me when someone picks some tiny semantical rant that has little to do with the topic at hand...

Tell me, what do you think are the chances aliens are referenced as you suggest in the bible?
 
Consequent:

The point of my original post in where I mentioned science crossing the line was that science is and has been used in ways that go beyond what I consider good science. The most obvious example I can think of is the ancient study of the stars and how they affect our lives known as astrology.

I consider astrology to be on par with the current creationist view.

Jusmeimg:

Your joke or barb was distasteful. additionally do you know exactly what is meant by: "God created man in his own image"? If you do please let me know what it means. I think that God could create a vast number of unique spieces that whould be reflections of her image.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top