How we know God exists

[Lawdog]

We can be certain that God exists because the Roman Catholic Church says so. (The Church says that we can be certain).

No scientific evidence needs to, or can be, or should be produced.

Only the Church has the right, given by God himself,
to make authoritative pronouncements concerning the divine reality.

The Church also affirms that the human mind is capable of concluding, through various evidences, that God exists.
However, to try and prove or disprove God from a scientific standpoint is useless and vain.

The role of Science is not to be a philosophical ground,
but an instrument of coming to knowledge about the physical reality.

God is pure spirit, therefore Science can never make a certain conclusion concerning God.

 

[charles cure]

wow, you really told us, and without making yourself sound stupid or out of touch with reality either. bravo.

 

[Provita]

Lawdog. All jews go to Hell, correct? All Muslims?

 

[wsionynw]

We can be certain that God exists because the Roman Catholic Church says so.

No scientific evidence needs to, or can be, or should be produced.

Only the Church has the right, given by God himself,
to make authoritative pronouncements concerning the divine reality.

The Church also affirms that the human mind is capable of concluding, through various evidences, that God exists.
However, to try and prove or disprove God from a scientific standpoint is useless and vain.

The role of Science is not to be a philosophical ground,
but an instrument of coming to conclusions about the physical reality.

God is pure spirit, therefore Science can never make a certain conclusion concerning God.

I'm really trying to be polite here Lawdog, but it's very difficult when you talk such shit. Just because the Catholic Church says it's so, doesn't fucking make it so! They offer no proof, evidence, anything, to substantiate their claims. Even IF a God of some description exists, then how the Holy fuck can you or anyone else know what 'he' wants from humanity?? It's pointless worshipping something you cannot comprehend, or even begin to comrephend.
So, I'm supposed to dedicate my life to the wishes of some old farts in the Vatican and more old farts that preach in church about who God loves, why he does what he does, and how Jesus loves me and is my saviour? NO FUCKING WAY!!
I believe in this, treat other humans and animals as you would wish to be treated yourself. This means no rape, murder, stealing, oppression.....you get the picture, don't you? I don't care if you believe in God, good luck to you if you do. But don't tell me crap like homosexuals are going to burn for all eternity when they die, the Earth was created in six days and genocide is ok if God says so. Get real and stop spreading hate and ignorance.

 

[Lawdog]

This is actually the case. The main reason Man was put on earth is to worship God.

What is amazing that so many billions suscribe to so seemingly an absurd belief and trust in The Church.

I believe because it is absurd.

 

[wsionynw]

This is actually the case. The main reason Man was put on earth is to worship God.

What is amazing that so many billions suscribe to so seemingly an absurd belief and trust in The Church.

I believe because it is absurd.

Of course they do, mostly because that is what they are told by their parents. Do as you are told or you will burn in Hell, shit, that would work on a lot of young kids!
Also it feels warm and safe to be part of a huge club, be it a religious group or football supporters club.
Some people don't want to let go of their irrational beliefs becuase they are scared. Some will not because it is their job to preach and convert, and to keep the religious machine running. If the growing number of atheists in the USA and UK are anything to go by then how long does organised religion have left?

 

[charles cure]

This is actually the case. The main reason Man was put on earth is to worship God.

What is amazing that so many billions suscribe to so seemingly an absurd belief and trust in The Church.

I believe because it is absurd.

how do you feel about the sale of indulgences?

 

[KennyJC]

I just groaned when I read this thread. It's people like Lawdog that lowers my faith in humanity. It's people like this that support conflict around the world today. Religion is dangerous, as this thread shows.

 

[Lawdog]

Of course they do, mostly because that is what they are told by their parents. Do as you are told or you will burn in Hell, shit, that would work on a lot of young kids!

sensationalist.

Also it feels warm and safe to be part of a huge club, be it a religious group or football supporters club.

I do not feel safe. the devil, the Flesh and the World are a realities that which are great threats.

Some people don't want to let go of their irrational beliefs becuase they are scared. Some will not because it is their job to preach and convert, and to keep the religious machine running. If the growing number of atheists in the USA and UK are anything to go by then how long does organised religion have left?

growing number of atheists...what should that tell you? That the apocalypse prophesied by Our Lord is coming.

 

[Lawdog]

how do you feel about the sale of indulgences?

a tragedy...but Luther should have been locked up anyway.

 

[Renrue]

Lawdog,

We can be certain that God exists because the Roman Catholic Church says so.

No scientific evidence needs to, or can be, or should be produced.

Only the Church has the right, given by God himself,
to make authoritative pronouncements concerning the divine reality.

The Church also affirms that the human mind is capable of concluding, through various evidences, that God exists.
However, to try and prove or disprove God from a scientific standpoint is useless and vain.

The role of Science is not to be a philosophical ground,
but an instrument of coming to conclusions about the physical reality.

God is pure spirit, therefore Science can never make a certain conclusion concerning God.

So, we should believe them because they said so? That doesn't sound very credible to me. So, what stops everyone from believing what other religious organizations just because they said so?

Everything you said can be used by other religious organizations. What separates them? I bet you'll just go back to saying God endowed only the Roman Catholic Church. And I'll know what I'll say, other organizations probably say the same darn thing about their own god(s).

Your argument is based on someone saying so and everyone else is wrong. There is no logical discussion here. Just you using the old, "Because I/they/he/she said so."


[Renrue]

 

[lightgigantic]

Your argument is based on someone saying so and everyone else is wrong. There is no logical discussion here. Just you using the old, "Because I/they/he/she said so."


[Renrue]

A lot of what goes on in the name of science works on the same principle - a hand full of people carry out some experiment or observation and there is a hierarchy of dissemination of informtaion that brings the findings down to the joe on the street via time magazine - if your argument is that something can only be true if it is directly to perceivable to the masses you ar e left with a pretty narrow world view - ant interestingly it is the upper end of the culture of knowledge that you will be eliminating- does that mean we can also exclude such other fictional entities like electrons and people's minds?

We certainly can if we uniformly apply the general principes you are advocating against religion.

On the other hand if we can recgnize who is qualified and who is unqalified it becomes a safer proposal to accept information on the basis of the speakers credibility.

 

[Oli]

A lot of what goes on in the name of science works on the same principle - a hand full of people carry out some experiment or observation and there is a hierarchy of dissemination of informtaion that brings the findings down to the joe on the street via time magazine

One difference being that science also says "this is what we intially thought, this is how we did it, these are the results - please check our work and let us know where, if at all, we went wrong in reaching this conclusion".
Another being that the existence or otherwise of electrons, and peoples' minds for that matter, has no real bearing on how people live their lives on a day-to-day basis. An electron doesn't mind if you don't believe in it, it doesn't require worship, it doesn't seek to arbitrate on ethical standards...

 

[Renrue]

lightgigantic,

A lot of what goes on in the name of science works on the same principle - a hand full of people carry out some experiment or observation and there is a hierarchy of dissemination of informtaion that brings the findings down to the joe on the street via time magazine - if your argument is that something can only be true if it is directly to perceivable to the masses you ar e left with a pretty narrow world view - ant interestingly it is the upper end of the culture of knowledge that you will be eliminating- does that mean we can also exclude such other fictional entities like electrons and people's minds?

We certainly can if we uniformly apply the general principes you are advocating against religion.

On the other hand if we can recgnize who is qualified and who is unqalified it becomes a safer proposal to accept information on the basis of the speakers credibility.

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think you actually understand how scientific findings are spread to the world. It is not a handful, for most findings are done by many other people. You don't always see the same name pop up when a breakthrough is discovered.

Not only that, the reason science is so wonderful is because other people can perform the same experiment for themself. That's right. lightgigantic, go find a scientific experiement and do it. You'll observe the effects mentioned. Therefore, you yourself can make your own educated opinion.

However, I cannot go back in time and see Jesus and all his works. I cannot go witness Jesus giving power to the Catholic church. How can I make my own opinion? I can't. With science, you can do it yourself.


[Renrue]

 

[nubianconcubine]

religion is and always will be a matter of faith. it does not as stated before have to be proven. the whole point of religion is to believe despite the lack of evidence ie faith.
it is unsettling how atheism has almost become a religion of its own. there are so many athiests in this forum attempting to use science as a way of converting everyone to nonbelief it's funny. what makes it funnier is that these same people are accusing the theists of doing the same. however, the only attempt i've read made by theists is to assert the existance of god. not once have i seen a post where a theist is accusing an atheist of being a hell-bound immoral person. and yet there are the athiests that use the word "delusional" to describe the religious.
it would seem to me that the athiests are the ones insecure enough to infringe on the beliefs of others.

 

[c7ityi_]

The main reason Man was put on earth is to worship God.

Why does god want us to worship him? What good does that do?

 

[nubianconcubine]

Why does god want us to worship him? What good does that do?

why does "W" want us to agree with everything he says? why did kings of olde insist on servitude?
seriously, the way it goes is, he gave us life. he made our world. we are suppose to thank him for it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Why does god want us to worship him? What good does that do?

Worship is an all-encompassing thing; it does not just mean going down on your knees.

In Islam, appreciating the good things in life, avoiding waste, feeding the hungry, looking after those who are less blessed than you, giving a part of your income to those in your family, community, as well as strangers, sharing your meal with someone, studying the creation of God ( i.e. all things in the Universe), reading and travelling far to acquire knowledge.....all these are considered worship.

 

[KennyJC]

nubianconcubine:

Delusion means to believe in spite of zero evidence. This fits you, lightgigantic and our friend Lawdog down to the ground. And no it's not funny, I am apalled.

he gave us life.

Evidence?

he made our world.

Evidence?

we are suppose to thank him for it.

Evidence?

If you can not provide any evidence you are suffering from a superstitious delusion. That is inescapable.

 

[Oli]

it would seem to me that the athiests are the ones insecure enough to infringe on the beliefs of others.

Insecurity has nothing to with it. (Why would it?) We want to know WHY you have belief in something for which there is no evidence, what prompts that belief, what sustains it?