How old is Christianity?

[Hapsburg]

Watch your language, young man. It ill becomes you.

How 'bout no, eh? How 'bout I say whatever the fuck I want to fuckin' say because I live in a country where I can. Don't fuckin' tell me what to do, a'ight?

Motherfucking cop-ass motherfucker, thinkin' he's that fuckin' police. I ought kick yo' fuckin' brains in, bitch

 

[c7ityi_]

Don't fuckin' tell me what to do, a'ight?

How 'bout no, eh? How 'bout I say whatever the fuck I want to fuckin' say because I live in a country where I can.

 

[Nisus]

Man I wish in all this arguing people could try to enlighten eachother!

 

[c7ityi_]

me too, Nisus, but that is impossible.

 

[Trilairian]

After I linked those articles from BBC---all of your posts therafter have failed to generate anything disproving what was said in those articles.
...

I don't have to. They don't support you. They contradict you.

 

[Trilairian]

You go, Nisus! And BTW, I sincerely doubt that Trilairian has actually read much of those references he gave you. It was strictly a cut-and-paste job designed to intimidate rather than inform.

Your the ones who stopped reading when you hit the date.

 

[Trilairian]

This is the most fallacious statement I've heard in this thread.

He's right. They probably didn't even exist:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=48815

 

[Trilairian]

I've already given instructions on how to get a testimony of God's existence and the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Moroni's Promise works.

I already told you that self delutions taken as devine revalation don't usurp emperically aquired knowledge.

 

[Marlin]

Please see the following web site:

Questions About Mormonism and Science

You would think the Mormons were terrified of science, based on some of the propaganda from vocal critics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or, as the New York Times insists on incorrectly calling it, "The Mormon Church"). Some "scientific" critics have tried to paint the Church as anti-science, with archaic doctrines that have been toppled by modern knowledge. Some critics have allegedly used scientific knowledge to debunk the Book of Mormon and "prove" that the Church is nothing more than a man-made organization with false and unsupported doctrines. In all this, one thing is for sure: the scientific method has been abandoned by those who wrap themselves in the shroud of scientific enlightenment.

[...]

The media has generally ignored the voice of the many real scientists in the Church who generally lack professional publicists. But far from opposing scientific knowledge and encouraging ignorance among the masses, the Church continues to embrace both scientific knowledge and revelation from God. Education is being encouraged more than ever by the Church for both men and women. The Church invests much money in Brigham Young University and other schools, where advanced scientific knowledge is taught (yes, students will learn about the findings and conclusions of modern science, including evolutionary science, genetics, anthropology, etc., and are not simply taught scriptures and faith).

[...]

In spite of the attacks of anti-Mormons and their spinning of science and doctrine to create a whirl of bad publicity for the Church, their position is unfounded. As we will explore below, well established scientific truth does not pose any fundamental challenge for the Church. It does not conflict with the canonized, official doctrines of the Church, which are remarkably neutral on scientific issues. Modern science has challenged many common assumptions among some members of the Church, and has not been compatible with the personal opinions of some members, including some leaders. But there is a huge difference between invalidating the truthfulness of the Church versus challenging an individual's incorrect opinion or requiring an update of our understanding of a tangential issue.

 

[geeser]

Your perspective is also subjective (personal)

no, as mine is based in fact, it only takes on instant of a thing to show it exists.

They can think as much as you can. They limit themselves into a religion, but you also limit yourself to things like "God doesn't exist" (your body/person) People defend themselves because they don't want to accept their infinity. They love their persons so much. They want to remain conscious. They want to remain in this world.

I know I will die, I know I will completely cease to be, it would be nice to live longer I surpose, but realism says I wont, so be it.
how do I limit myself, I'm the same as you in every aspect except, an irrational belief.
you've got this bit back to front, "People defend themselves because they don't want to accept their infinity. They love their persons so much. They want to remain conscious. "this is the religious mind set, I know my time here is short.

The only objective thing is that everything is subjective.

rubbish, two gorillas walking though a jungle they stop, in front of them is a tree, which they both see, one of them does'nt see a dancing pig with blue polka dotted tights on, they both see a tree.
we are no more different than those gorilla, what they see, we see, it's called reality, unfortunately we are humans and can allow the subjective mind to take over, but then we are nothing more than lunatics.

I didn't actually. By adult I mean when I was 17, which is 3 years ago. I have never been religious in my life and I have never believed in God (in the way you think) When I saw God and religions as you do now, I thought they were completely ridiculous,

you could never have been like me as you would not believe in a god, the only way for any real atheist to be come religious is to have a blow to the head or be lobotomized.

now but now I understand them, so they're not ridiculous anymore. I wouldn't call myself religious and I couldn't say that I believe in "God" (since you don't understand it the way I do)

of course, I could'nt, I've not had the blow to the head.

If you only understand the world (physical things), you will not understand religions or God. But when you understand yourself (mental things), you will understand religions and God.

that says it all,"mental things" exactly my point, you have to be deranged, deluded, to believe in a god or supernatural power.

If you want to find the truth, you should be more neutral. You should accept the possibility that there is something you don't understand about God and religions. When you accept that you are not right about everything,

I never said I was right about everything, but untill such a time that someone or even itself proves it exists, it is and shall remain fantasy.

the search for the truth can begin for real.

but I would need to be hit on the head or lobotomized, as I said earlier.

You don't understand. The teaching from which all religions come from was too advanced for people to understand thousands of years ago, so it was changed into a form which the people could understand. How would you teach a small child about the nature of reality? About Quantum physics?

please dont be stupid, they were written but those very same people, who you say could'nt understand them, give me a break!.

What reason would we have to live on other planets?

it is within the humanity to explore, to question, to discover, thats why.

The universe. There's nothing out there, it's all the same.

even if this is true, why not, when asked why he climbed everest, sir edmund hillery said becuase it's there.

Religion has not restricted our evolution, it is a consequence of our evolution. The problem is not religion, it is humans. Humans are always the problem. Guns don't kill, people do.

but in the name of god/religion our evolution has been restricted, or have you forgot about the dark ages the Inquisition, the so called witch hunts, and all the wars, caused by religion, and all those culture destroyed by it.
if humans were not subjugated, enslaved in to these religions we would have advanced ten fold by know.

 

[c7ityi_]

no, as mine is based in fact, it only takes on instant of a thing to show it exists.

How do you expect people to show you that god exist when you don't even know what it is? The people who talk about god don't seem to know what it is either.

I know I will die, I know I will completely cease to be, it would be nice to live longer I surpose, but realism says I wont, so be it.

You're weird. Why would you want to live longer? I wouldn't. Non-existence sounds like "paradise" to me.

how do I limit myself, I'm the same as you in every aspect except, an irrational belief.

You limit yourself by defending your person. If you wouldn't defend yourself, you would cease to be that specific person. You would evolve and become different.

this is the religious mind set, I know my time here is short.

I know my time here is eternal.

we are no more different than those gorilla, what they see, we see, it's called reality, unfortunately we are humans and can allow the subjective mind to take over, but then we are nothing more than lunatics.

Seeing is a sensation, it is not "reality", even though it is called so, because the only world people know is the world of their 5 senses. Reality is not "reality". It is a word, understood differently, by different people. The language, and our thinking process does not have to be something "objective".

If there was a reality, everyone would see it. But all people are different, so they see things differently.

you could never have been like me as you would not believe in a god, the only way for any real atheist to be come religious is to have a blow to the head or be lobotomized.

You know. I thought religions were completely ridiculous. The idea of God, I laughed at it. I was very interrested in science, and I thought it was the way to understand reality...

However, my life was taken away from me, so I became a lot more "spiritual", and I began to understand religions and God. It was really weird. From being a complete atheist, becoming an almost "religious" person. My "spiritual" eyes opened. Before I could only understand "physical" things.

that says it all,"mental things" exactly my point, you have to be deranged, deluded, to believe in a god or supernatural power.

Mental things are as real, or probably even "more real", than physical things. Otherwise, if mental things were not real, you couldn't believe in your own thoughts or feelings.

Everything is mental. Everything is sensational. When you see something, it must be in your consciousnsess, in your mind, so observing is also a mental thing.

There is no such thing as supernatural, there is only ignorance.

I never said I was right about everything, but untill such a time that someone or even itself proves it exists, it is and shall remain fantasy.

The "god" which religions talk about is the self within us. Buddhism and Hinduism teaches this. Buddha said that there are no gods. Hinduism says that "atman" (the self, soul) is brahman (the "highest god", the absolute, the unexplainable)

There is no way to prove that the "self" exists, but I don't think there is a reason to doubt it exists. This is what "god" is, so now you have "evidence" of gods existence, because god is the self within us. The self is not the person. It is life itself. When you learn to understand more about yourself, you will see that it is very similar to what religions call "god".

please dont be stupid, they were written but those very same people, who you say could'nt understand them, give me a break!.

Yeah, they were WRITTEN by them, but not discovered/invented by them. Before our human race, there was another, very different human race, and they knew more than us. Infact, they knew everything. But at the same time, there also lived a primitive human race.

but in the name of god/religion our evolution has been restricted, or have you forgot about the dark ages the Inquisition, the so called witch hunts, and all the wars, caused by religion, and all those culture destroyed by it.
if humans were not subjugated, enslaved in to these religions we would have advanced ten fold by know.

Humans are egoistic. They create division. Between themselves, between countries, between religions. Originally, there was only one teaching, but man has created many "religions" of it because of his ignorance and egoism.

 

[geeser]

How do you expect people to show you that god exist when you don't even know what it is?

I dont expect anybody to show me, a god exist, as I know they cant.
I could never know non-existence, I could make an educated guess what it would be like, but it wont be a good one it's impossible to know, as I would'nt exist

You're weird. Why would you want to live longer?I wouldn't. Non-existence sounds like "paradise" to me.

I have a maximum of 70 years of life, if I'm lucky, yes I would like more as I know that when I'm dead thats it, I'm dead, theres nothing else.

You limit yourself by defending your person. If you wouldn't defend yourself, you would cease to be that specific person. You would evolve and become different.

how so, you make no sense, I'll defend my right to live, love, reproduce, I will always be me, it is a complete impossiblity for me to be anybody else, I'm just not irrational.

I know my time here is eternal.

your contradicting yourself, you said this earlier " Non-existence sounds like "paradise" to me." you cant be eternal and non-existent, so we can gather from this, you dont want to live longer but your eternal, yes makes a lot of sense

Seeing is a sensation,

correct, go to the top of the class.
but what you see is reality, unless you hallucinating at the time.

it is not "reality", even though it is called so, because the only world people know is the world of their 5 senses.

no and the worlds of fantasy and imagination, but it's also knowing where the twain shall meet, and not crossing the boundery

Reality is not "reality". It is a word, understood differently, by different people. The language, and our thinking process does not have to be something "objective".

it's not it's subjective and objective, it's knowing where the line is.

If there was a reality, everyone would see it. But all people are different, so they see things differently.

we are just animals, albeit a little more intelligent then the rest , but still just animals, we all see the same basic reality.

You know. I thought religions were completely ridiculous. The idea of God, I laughed at it. I was very interested in science, and I thought it was the way to understand reality...

However, my life was taken away from me,

so you got a blow to the head

so I became a lot more "spiritual", and I began to understand religions and God. It was really weird. From being a complete atheist, becoming an almost "religious" person. My "spiritual" eyes opened. Before I could only understand "physical" things.

see what I mean about a blow to the head, it makes you completely irrational, you only have to read back what you've written to see that.

Mental things are as real, or probably even "more real", than physical things. Otherwise, if mental things were not real, you couldn't believe in your own thoughts or feelings. Everything is mental. Everything is sensational.

this the reason you have a subjective mind and an objective, for instance you can imagine your mother, in your subjective mind but shes also objective, as she exists, however imagine a purple pink half fish and half horse creature, it does'nt exist it's pure imagination, it's knowing where to draw the line

When you see something, it must be in your consciousnsess, in your mind, so observing is also a mental thing.

yes if it's your mother, no if it the creature.

There is no such thing as supernatural, there is only ignorance.

well said, the supernatural, persay is in the subjective mind.

The "god" which religions talk about is the self within us. Buddhism and Hinduism teaches this. Buddha said that there are no gods. Hinduism says that "atman" (the self, soul) is brahman (the "highest god", the absolute, the unexplainable)
There is no way to prove that the "self" exists,

now you delving deeper into the abyss of fantasy.

but I don't think there is a reason to doubt it exists.

there is a whole thread on the soul, there is no evidence for such a thing.

This is what "god" is, so now you have "evidence" of gods existence,

evidence! where?.

because god is the self within us. The self is not the person. It is life itself. When you learn to understand more about yourself, you will see that it is very similar to what religions call "god".

there is no evidence for this self you refer to.

 

[c7ityi_]

lol

how so, you make no sense, I'll defend my right to live, love, reproduce, I will always be me, it is a complete impossiblity for me to be anybody else, I'm just not irrational.

of course you will always be you. the self is everything. the self is in everything. it is life. LIFE is in everything. a tree... now at autumn... the life of the tree inhales the life from the leaves... in spring, it exhales the life back... this is the "breath of god"... the leaves drop and die... and also the tree... but not the life which animates them...

with humans... it's the same... the life is breathed into us... and then the "life" ("god") inhales it back again... and it produces physical vehicles for life elsewhere... death is life... it is its other side... god is life... god is love... god is the self... so "he" surely exists...

but he's not a man in the sky like you imagine!!! so... of course you cannot believe in it!

your contradicting yourself, you said this earlier " Non-existence sounds like "paradise" to me." you cant be eternal and non-existent, so we can gather from this, you dont want to live longer but your eternal, yes makes a lot of sense

just because I WANT to dissapear, doesn't mean i'm going to. the reality is cruel. i don't want to live... but i know i must live forever!!. i've been here for aeons, i'm not stupid to think i dissapear this time when this body dies.

bodies are just clothes. they're not me. i am formless, like water. put me into a cup, and i become a cup, put me into geeser, and i become geeser, put me into c7ityi_ i become c7ityi_. the self/life is omnipresent.

but what you see is reality, unless you hallucinating at the time.

why would it be reality? what is reality? why would seeing be "reality"? is there a world out there, apart from your senses? how would you know, since the only way to know anything about the world is through your senses?

we are not several minds, conscious of one real universe, but only one mind, conscious of infinite personal universes.

we are just animals, albeit a little more intelligent then the rest , but still just animals, we all see the same basic reality.

animal is the wrong word. we should rather be called "creatures". we are like the animals, just more intelligent, but the definition of a consicous thinking creature is not "animal", but human!

see what I mean about a blow to the head, it makes you completely irrational, you only have to read back what you've written to see that.

ahahahahaha!!!!

when i was a child i didn't believe or disbelieve. later... i got a "blow to my head", which means that life was pain, so i became an atheist.... later i suffered even more... so i became kind of religious... now i've suffered even more... so i've become insane!!!...

just kidding.... i mean... now, i'm not an atheist and i'm not a theist... because.... neither side agrees with me. holding a side creates war... i'm on neither side... my "god" is not like the god of theists... it is not god... god does not exist! only the self exists...

when we suffer, we become more openminded, so we won't reject our infinity. we will not defend our person. we will even give space to things which used to sound completely irrational!... and if we understand those "irrational" things, they will no longer be irrational! but if we don't understand something, and just accept it by blind faith, we will become irrational!

and of course. all this is "irrational" to you because you've not had the same experiences as me!!! everything's subjective, that's why we don't agree with each other.

for instance you can imagine your mother, in your subjective mind but shes also objective, as she exists

she exists? what if she died? what if i would never see her again? she would be just a memory, i could never be sure she really existed. so things are not objective. they have only temporal illusional existence. only "life" is objective. the cause. not the effects. not the visible things.

however imagine a purple pink half fish and half horse creature, it does'nt exist it's pure imagination

"only" in the imagination? what if i make such a creature? then it would be real!

also... i guess you have seen similar creatures mentioned in religions? of course they're not "real" physical creatures! the fish attributes, dragon snake whatever... represent different things. ex: snake/dragon used to mean wisdom.

now you delving deeper into the abyss of fantasy.

yr funny. imagination is real.

there is a whole thread on the soul, there is no evidence for such a thing.

i'm not talking about the "soul" (ie. your personal understanding of the word soul), i'm talking about the self. the soul is just an old word for the self.

no evidence? of course there's no evidence since you don't even know what that thing is!

evidence! where?.

in you. you exist. you are god. so god exists!!!!

there is no evidence for this self you refer to.

no evidence for life? no evidence of you?

is there evidence for 458nyh? of course not... since you don't know what it is... and you don't understand completely what god is either... so of course there is no "evidence" for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the end :m:

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: Christianity in and of itself does not exist. What does exist is Paulianity. Paul, a learned man, invented a mind-controlling religion for the HRE. Somehow it became to be called "Christianity," but it wasn't Christianity per se. Paul never knew Jesus nor had any idea about the Christ-Messiah. Legend has it that the Christ-Messiah was a savior of mankind, but this is not true. Old gods wear new faces. There is nothing that can be called "Christianity." It's followers are not Christians!

 

[stefan]

unfortunately me and you know that, but the christians delude themselves in to believing they are, there are no christians, they are all worshipping a pagan myth, poor deluded fools.