How far is too far?

S

swarm

Registered Senior Member
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
Click to expand...
Perhaps you can give an example of a horrific thing and we can unpack it to examine what general principles you are applying.

Bonus points if you can bring up something that doesn't come under the banner of fideism.
 
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lightgigantic said:
Perhaps you can give an example of a horrific thing and we can unpack it to examine what general principles you are applying.

Bonus points if you can bring up something that doesn't come under the banner of fideism.
Click to expand...

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

must I go on? all I had to do was search on google.
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
Click to expand...

First you have to understand that the bible was written by men at a time in history that was quite violent and lawless.

I also find it interesting that you "beleive" ONLY the violent parts of the bible, yet you're probably an avid atheist, right?

Baron Max
 
Numbers 16, from the Bible.

It is the story of 250 people who questioned Moses. They didn't believe that Moses was acting according to what God really wanted and they doubted that he was a man of God, but instead someone who thought to conquer them by killing them off. Apparently they setup a showdown at the tabernacle, with Moses and his people on one side and 250 Levites on the other. Moses said that so they would know he was not acting out of his own will, God will kill you in a different way than ever heard of. He will open up the Earth and you will fall in, then it will shut. And so, it happened.

It wasn't enough for God just to come down and say look, these people are with me. If you stand against me, I will have to kill you. Nope, he had to make an example.

So after this traumatic event, there were some grieving people. They felt that Moses had a hand in what happened to their people. God saw this, and killed 14 thousand of them by plague.
 
Baron Max said:
First you have to understand that the bible was written by men at a time in history that was quite violent and lawless.

I also find it interesting that you "beleive" ONLY the violent parts of the bible, yet you're probably an avid atheist, right?

Baron Max
Click to expand...

Give me a break, he did not say that he believed any of it. He is saying, "Here is your religious text that you believe really happened. Doesn't it bother you that God and people commanded by God performed some pretty seemingly heinous acts? Not at least enough to question God?"

Man, why don't people stop and think about what a person is trying to say, and don't assume that they're idiots just because they disagree or have a different idea or opinion?
 
jayleew said:
Man, why don't people stop and think about what a person is trying to say, ....?
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Everyone here, with any brains at all, know exactly what he is "trying" to say. He doesn't have to spell it out in words.

The bible was written by men ...men who lived in a violent and lawless time on Earth. It's quite natural to think that they'd write about what they knew and use it to explain their philosophy of life. Does it all have to be the truth, nothing but the truth?

Baron Max
 
chris4355 said:
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

must I go on? all I had to do was search on google.
Click to expand...

Is that what it says in the original Hebrew?
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
Click to expand...

Nope, not really. I don't care what one 2000+ year old book says, or another.

If someone wants to believe in a god that is a murderous, unforgiving asshole, then fine. Don't expect me to listen to it or take part in any of it, but people can do what they will.

Personally, I think it's all bullshit. But hey, who am I to judge?

Live and let live.
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
Click to expand...
Perhaps the concept of good and evil needs to be precisely defined before judgments of this kind can be made. Whether that is actually possible when we as people can agree on so little is another question. All that aside, though, it must be remembered that in terms of the belief in a perfect heaven after death, physical pain and suffering loses some significance, despite the experienced intense level of its severity.
 
Baron Max said:
...I also find it interesting that you "believe" ONLY the violent parts of the bible, yet you're probably an avid atheist, right?

Baron Max
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Well, see that's just the thing, Monsieur Baron.

One must take the whole thing at face value, or take the whole thing as a metaphor, as some modernists would prefer.

But one can not accept parts and reject others without invalidating the whole... which forms a large part of the problem the church has had for a couple of centuries now.

Having said that, I must also say I do understand your attack implicitly.
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?
Click to expand...
Nearly forgot.
My answer is, in most cases, no.

Most men derive a sense of identity from their beliefs.
They will resist any attempt to attack or remove those beliefs almost beyond reason.

It would be well to bear in mind, however, that any sense of belief is reinforced exponentially depending on the benefit one might derive from it.
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
Click to expand...

God is omnipotently self serving.

As long as it is rationalisable on some level, and pushed by charisma and dogma, then religious people will follow God to the end of earth. Literally.
 
swarm said:
Is there a point at which god is so heinous that even a religious person won't worship him?

Do you religious people have any standards at all or will you worship god no matter what?

Every religion to my knowledge that has a god, has god doing horrific things.

Doesn't that bother you at all?
Click to expand...

First you would have to define God. is it a god, multiple gods, hundreds of gods. then you have to convince me that this\these beings, who is\are extremely intellectual would be desirous of being worshiped.
 
chris4355 said:
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

must I go on? all I had to do was search on google.
Click to expand...
now I guess we can go on an examine to what degrees these statements are over-arching integral aspects of religion or relevant to a particular time place and circumstance.

Since you chose biblical quotes, the first question that comes to mind is why aren't these principles applied (at least the first and third one) wholesale by chrsitians? (at the very least, as pointed out by several posters earlier, a cursory investigation by google reveals quite a few different ways to "read" the text, much less on the diverse ways one could socially apply it)

As a parallel, there are many scriptural injunctions for jews on how they should look after their camels, but it seems many are neglecting this in down town NYC.

:scratchin:

Its a favourite pastime of religious neophytes to replace primary for secondary religious principles and it is a favourite pastimes of atheists to lodge arguments against such persons.

BTW its not clear why you suggest

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.

is going to far (since its clear to many that there is only enough ontological substance to cater for one monotheistic god ... albeit one that might be named differently and understood to a variety of levels)
 
lightgigantic said:
As a parallel, there are many scriptural injunctions for jews on how they should look after their camels, but it seems many are neglecting this in down town NYC.
Click to expand...

I think camel husbandry is just as stupid and worthy of neglect. The OP is about going too far, so why in hell does the welfare of camels appear in a religious tome anyway?
 
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