How do you talk to someone who believes...

T

Thor

"Pfft, Rebel scum!"
Valued Senior Member
Hi all

Haven't been in this section in a very long time (mainly due to flamers). Anyway, I met someone at college the other day and I was astonished to find that he is a devout Christian. Not just you're GI Christian but the whole hog. He believes in the six day creation and believes that every species that has walked the Earth was created at the same time (and this somehow disproves evolution?!?) so Dinosaurs and man once walked the Earth at the same time little over 6,000 years ago.

Now, this guy is nice enough but I just can't talk to him without getting into Religion. I just can't get past it and neither can he (I'm a Fully Fledged Athiest borderline Nihilist). I try to imagine what it must be like in his head but I just get headaches. I put forward scientific facts about Dinosaurs and evolution (Moths in the US that evolved over a matter of months) yet he says that's ll athiest propaganda. AND he believes the world is flat and once refused to go on a flight from Japan to America as he thought it would be suicide. He gave me a leaflet the other day about how NASA is a hoax to try and disprove the bible.

Can anyone help? I know alot of information that would turn any Christian to the otherside but that's not my aim. I just want to put forward the facts to him and I want him to stop trying to convert me.

Sorry if that seemed jumbled, it's 3 in the morning.
 
Focus on the flat Earth part. Maybe he'll realize he isn't right about everything once you convince him that the Earth is spherical.

Seems like the easiest target, to me.
 
Why are you interested in him? Why do you care what he thinks or believes?
Surely you have other friends that are more sensible. If you desire friendship with this person accept their religion and any other habits you disagee with as their own foibles. Clearly you are not going to be moved on the subject, what makes you think he is not as immobile? If you don't desire a friendship, disengage.
 
The Bible does not say the Earth isn't flat. What is his basis?


And I'm curious about this "information that would turn any Christian to the otherside". Maybe is this sort of heresy and arrogance that "endears" you to him?

Do tell us more.
 
I'd guess that he's the type of guy who isn't going to debate any of his beliefs. They are true and he won't even bother going to any lengths to show why they're so. He's a believer and nothing else. I have a friend, a good friend, who is kind of like that. I don't think he takes it to the extremes your buddy is taking it to. (To be honest, I've never heard of anyone that believes in the flat earth. Makes him sound borderline retarded.) But my buddy believes in prophecy and refuses to even consider evolution. He's open enough to listen to my attempts at debate without scorn, but he really isn't interested in it. He doesn't build up the fire that is needed in debates of that sort. The ability to dig and examine, poke and prod. He usually just puts me on hold til he can run it past his preacher. At least he's not a devout christian. He's a true believer, but doesn't devote himself to it.

We grew up in Kansas (he's still there), and I recently heard that Kansas started teaching creationism in school. This kinda blew me away. I grew up there and I got a pretty good liberal education. This creationism thing was just a slap in the face. I tried to discuss it with him and he just refused to accept that creationism isn't science. I explained to him what science is and how it's structured and how creationism doesn't fit in to any of these categories, and he just refused. Simple as that. He couldn't begin to explain why, he just knew it was science, that's all. (BTW, he doesn't want to vote for Bush because of the war but he won't vote for Kerry unless Nader is his vice-president. Here's a guy that could possibly make a difference, but he votes with his religious ideals. Go-go christian right.)

There's not much you can do. You can always try bashing your head into the wall for awhile, but you'd have to be a masochist to continue past a certain point.
 
As for the Bush thing I have no comment.. :bugeye:


If Creationism isn't science, what is it?

//Refers you to the ICR. :p
 
His mind isn't open to reason so any reasoned argument will fail on him so it is a waste of time trying. In this case you cannot win.

Simply smile inwardly with the satisfaction of your own valid position and very politely ignore him. If he has any semblance of rational ability then he might eventually discover his errors for himself.

However, if you enjoy bashing your head against a brick wall, i.e. trying to hold a rational debate with Christians, then carry on and enjoy the debacle - but don't expect any positive results - and that is pretty much what we do here at sciforums.religion anyway.

Kat
 
... i.e. trying to hold a rational debate with Christians...
Click to expand...

Sometimes debate with Christians can be fruitful. It all depends on how willing they are to examine their own faith and rationally discuss their holy book. It's rare, but it does happen from time to time. I think the difference might be in people who see themselves as biblical scholars rather than just believers of the faith.
 
SouthStar,

If Creationism isn't science, what is it?
Click to expand...
Religion, since it concludes from the outset that a god did it. Science makes no conclusions until it has evidence.

Hence science and religion are opposites as is science vs creationism.

Kat
 
Invert,

Yes I agree but then they aren't truly Christian if they display skepticsm and genuinely wish to discover truth since they already believe they have discovered the ultimate truth in their Jesus deity. If they express doubt then they can't be believers.

Kat
 
Invert,

I hadn't read your post when I posted mine - curious that we both used the head bashing the wall analogy. :D

Kat
 
I wouldn't say that they're not christian. There are levels of christianity. One can be a christian and look at the bible as a metaphor rather than a literal truth. In this case, they might even add to a better understanding of the philosophy embedded within the bible and increase their own faith by the same process by which I further my distance from it. A mutual advantage. It seems that in these days, it becomes harder to find the liberal christians. Fundamentalism is becoming more common. Perhaps it's just that the fundamentalists preach more. Same could be said for Islam.

Of course, this liberal viewpoint of the bible could very easily be labelled heresy. So, as you say, they may not be true christians. I think I know how the Pope would weigh in.
 
i suggest you both sign a pact, stating that he will not try to convert you and you will not try to convert him. mutual non-aggression. if that doesn't work, the brick wall is always an option. :D

also, nexus, how do you define "fruitful" [i.e. in what sense do you use the word]?
 
I basically described it above. But more than that, I enjoy studying the bible and the events of those times as a study of human nature. Christianity is one of the prime religions in the world. The ideals that are incorporated into the bible can lead to certain truths of human nature. What we desire in a religion. What we desire for the world, ourselves.

Religion is a basic need of humans. It is a need that in my opinion is of the past and is in the process of being superseded should all go well. But it is still a need. Religion can be ascribed to the rise of our ancestors from animal status. Literacy stems from religion. It was at the root of vast movements of power in the past, present, and future.

Bah, I don't know what I'm trying to say exactly. But, you join in on religious conversations as well. What do you get out of it? It has to offer at least the hint of fruitfulness. ;)



Edit: Katazia, yes. I imagine head bashing often comes to mind in situations such as this. :D
 
i join in when i see a blatant contradiction of fact, or when i am asked my opinion [as in "atheists"] yet i have no sense that what i say can ever change someone's beliefs about something they think they know. it feels remarkably like hitting one's head against a brick wall [well put analogy], and i know that going in. but as to why i do it...to present an alternate point of view, perhaps. ahem, well that was useless. i guess it's too early for logic.
 
We need some sort of ethical/moral structure. We get this from influences such as religions. Now days you can see how morals have dropped due to lack of religion. We seem to have replaced it with money.
 
Yeah, but my point is where would we get morals/ethics without religion? The basis for this country was founded on laws which were rooted from christianity.
 
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