How do Muslims get into Paradise?
- Thread starter Revolvr
- Start date
There is a prayer at the end of Sura al-Baqarah (the one that Arsalan above referred to)
It is the last verse and goes something like this:
Allah tasketh not a soul beyond its scope. For it (is only) that which it hath earned, and against it (only) that which it hath deserved. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark! Our Lord! Lay not on us such a burden as thou didst lay on those before us! Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk. 2:286
In other words, if there are problems in life, there is also the strength and courage to cope with it, if you wish. The choice is yours and whatever choice you make, is to your account. Beyond that, one can only do one's best.
The Ottomans didn't have slaves?
Those ARABs who invaded Spain were Muslims and they left their mark on the land. They left their architecture and their culture. And they took slave. I do not know what is so kind about putting chains on innocent people and selling them into a life of slavery.
We talking about fighting or slavery? Because there werent only Muslims there fighting ya know. Muslim Spain was one of the highlights of European history. It is because of that Spain that the renaissance was able to take place.
Besides, slaves in Muslim countries were not treated like slaves in the west where Christians saw it as their duty to tell black slaves they were less than the whites. Slaves that were taken after fighting were taken for their own protection. After fighting, the losing side would lose everything. They wouldnt have anyone to take care of them. So to take care of them and provide them food and shelter and a life they would be taken and ultimately freed. If a slave wasnt freed, he could demand it or buy himself out of slavery. Now how could a slave buy himself out of slavery? Exactly, they had their own money. They lived just like their masters, the clothes, the food etc. Just because your History classes dealt with White Western treatment of slaves doesnt mean that was how Muslims treated their brothers and sisters.
We have often heard this fairy tale told here, to no avail. Muslims often confuse their past conquering of nations and plundering of the spoils of war with the enlightenment of us all.
I am sorry, I just don't get how putting schackles on innocent farmers and selling them and their families into a life time of slavery is in any way kind. And of course, anything done my someone of European ansestory is a thousand times worse than anything anyone else does. But I just cannot get over the notion that bad is bad and good is good regardless of the ethinic background of the perpetrator. I am sorry, my mind is just not set up for this kind of racial thinking.
And yet after hundreds of years of slavery, segregation and discrimination, African Americans and native Americans are still marginalised in American society.
You see, thats just it. No shackles were put on anyone. People who had property and had a family and a life were not taken because they could take care of themselves. People who couldnt, came under the protection of Muslims. It;s the wording the Westerners put on those people that makes it sound like they were treated less than dogs. Thats not the Muslims fault.
And bad is bad and good is good. Ive never denied that. Bad apples are everywhere. What i disagree with is attributing falsehoods to my religion. If you want to say some Arabs showed blatant disregard for Islam and did heinous things, then all the better! Id even support that. But its when you blame my religion for the actions of people long gone that I will resist.
The renaissance started in Italy.
AAAAhhhhhhaaaa Haaa Haaaa hahahaaha OMG - brown man's burden
LOL!
It's good that in your trying to come up with some way to excuse it you at that same time admit it is an evil enterprise.
I never said it didnt
AAAAhhhhhhaaaa Haaa Haaaa hahahaaha OMG - brown man's burden
LOL!
It's good that in your trying to come up with some way to excuse it you at that same time admit it is an evil enterprise.
Im not excusing anything. neither I nor Islam is responsible for anyones actions and I am not bound by the actions of anyone besides the Prophet. The simple fact of the matter is that the slaves that were taken after fighting had finished, mos were either released directly after, some chose to stay and some were kept. I suggest instead of laughing insanely you read up on what people like Annemarie Schimmel have to say about slavery in Islam. Enslaving innocent people for no reason whatsoever is not allowed in Islam and hurting a slave in Islam in any way means he has to be set free. The reason were having this debate is that Westerners have seen what they did to the blacks in their history lessons and assume thats what slavery in Islam means.
Did "THE" Prophet own a Slave?
Actually, I am curious, did any of THE other Prophets own any slaves? I can't remember if Moses owned some slaves or if he was a slave? Did Buddha own a Slave? Jesus own slaves? Abraham have some slaves? One would think the further back into time the more the vile practice would be acceptable.
The simple fact is, it is wrong to own other humans. Agreed?
A truly enlightened person would see this and not do it - SIMPLY as a f*cking matter of PRINCIPAL. Just because Mohammad took the easy road and accepted the most VILE of INSTITUTIONS did not mean that HE, Mohammad, had to f*cking own a slave. He could have simply NEVER owned one himself and thereby set a positive example. An enlightened intelligent and compassionate person would recognize that their actions of owning HUMANS would be used to justify the owning of humans by those that followed him. GUESS WHAT - That is exactly what happened. 1500 years of slaver ownership until finally, FINALLY, it was ended in the ME by the Christian Europeans.
Pretty sad legacy donchya think?
Accepting ideas such as polygamy, slavery, theocracy and this whole ignoramus notion of a "perfect" book have shown themselves again and again and again in ALL manner of societies to be detrimental towards progression and human development.
Truly Arsalan, you MUST find it absolutely amazing that the last Chinese Prophet to be worshiped, Chairman Mao, was able to abolish slavery, polygamy and theocracy all in about 10 years in a country with hundreds of millions of diverse people YET the Arab Prophet couldn't do likewise and not only that neither could any of the people who followed his lead? I suppose Mao was simply a better Prophet hey? Communist Manefesto a better read. That MUST be the case because Muslims kept buying and selling humans as cattle for millennia and would still be doing it to this day had not the Europeans put a stop to it.
Anyway, I can see you are being an Islamic apologist. This is at least a good sign - it means you at least recognize the evils of slave-ownership. To reconcile history with your religion with your belief all you have to do is this good old one: Mohammad HAD to own slaves because X, Islamic nations continued slavery because they weren't "true" Muslims, take one excuse every 3 hours with tea before going to bed...
Michael
PS: American Slavery was VILE, EVIL and DESPICABLE. It's too bad those founding fathers, who are in many respects very admirable, had their f*cking heads right up their arses on that one. They were dead-wrong on slavery.
ahhh, right SAM, that is exactly why we have an African American leading in the race for the Presidency of the United States. Us white folk, (over 80 percent of the population) are voting for him, because we are racist biggots. We will definately show him and the other people of color how marginalized they are when we elect him as our leader!!! And on top of that, he has a Islamic name, Barrack Hussein Obama! That will definately teach them!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html
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I see you left out the American Founding Fathers.
Why?
You meant to write: What is it with all this hatred of Muslims, Islam, Mohammed and the Founding Fathers of America.
God only knows I must hate my countries secular founding fathers :bugeye:
Funny that.
Michael
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I'm flabbergasted that this is something Muslims would stoop to defend.
So, Muslims conquered other nations, raped, pillaged and plundered. Then, after the raping, pillaging and plundering, they felt it their moral duty to take as slaves those who might have survived the raping, pillaging and plundering because those victims wouldn't have anyone to take care of them. And, they had to convert to Islam if they wished to stay alive, of course.
Unfuckingbelievable.