How did you find faith?
- Thread starter SnakeLord
- Start date
I can't tell you how I found faith, just how I found the lack-thereof. I was raised in a Christian home. All my life my parents have made me go to church 3 times a week. For awhile I was really into it, but then I started doing a little research and now I believe that religion is futile. The bible was written by humans. Simple fact there. I don't really care who inspired it. It also contadicts itself waaaay too many times for me to regard it as a true message from God. I haven't found anything that really says "hey there is NO god" but I definately don't agree with any established religion out there.
How about you SnakeLord? What do you believe and why?
-Belle
Funny in the animated movie, The beauty and the beast...
Belle marries the beast.
Ironic isn't it. For someone who says the bible's written by human's and doesn't care WHO inspired it...even if that who was God....
And then asking for answers.
You want to hear excuses for running from God, not answers...
Pray it's not too late, in sincerity look for God to reveal to you your questions, and the're answers.....without having your mind already made up and He will.
Belle marries the beast.
Ironic isn't it. For someone who says the bible's written by human's and doesn't care WHO inspired it...even if that who was God....
And then asking for answers.
You want to hear excuses for running from God, not answers...
Pray it's not too late, in sincerity look for God to reveal to you your questions, and the're answers.....without having your mind already made up and He will.
Hi Belle 
I believe in my daughter. If there is a big invisible dood called God he ranks way behind her. She's of the utmost importance in my life. Anyone who puts love in some big invisible guy/woman/spirit before their own children is a fool.
If God doesn't respect that he can kiss my ass
When we had her birth record made and they asked her religion i said: She is whatever she wants to be whenever she's old enough to come to her own conclusions. I would never attempt to force her to believe what i believe- that in itself shows just how wrong religion is..... it's like a mass worldwide competition- we get morons knocking on our door all the time, making magazines etc and all stating they are the only people who are right. They too can kiss my ass. There seems to be two distinct types of religious people: A) Those who were taught it as youngsters, and B) Those who had some divine life saving miracle. Everyone else is clear minded enough to know otherwise. How can anyone claim to know the truth when they believe something because their parents said so, or because they nearly died? Take for example your post about your parents/sister: It seems your parents dont respect the fact that people can make their own decisions in life without condemnation. If it was for safety/health reasons i'd understand but to say someone can't lead their own life because of some big invisible dood is in my opinion insane and delusional. The ending of life- passing it over to someone in the sky. All are entitled to their own belief but no need to burden others with it.
Aside from all that i believe aliens put us here It's the only one that sounds funny..... everything else is too moralistic, contradictory, self righteous, hypocritical and stupid for my liking
I believe in my daughter. If there is a big invisible dood called God he ranks way behind her. She's of the utmost importance in my life. Anyone who puts love in some big invisible guy/woman/spirit before their own children is a fool.
If God doesn't respect that he can kiss my ass
When we had her birth record made and they asked her religion i said: She is whatever she wants to be whenever she's old enough to come to her own conclusions. I would never attempt to force her to believe what i believe- that in itself shows just how wrong religion is..... it's like a mass worldwide competition- we get morons knocking on our door all the time, making magazines etc and all stating they are the only people who are right. They too can kiss my ass. There seems to be two distinct types of religious people: A) Those who were taught it as youngsters, and B) Those who had some divine life saving miracle. Everyone else is clear minded enough to know otherwise. How can anyone claim to know the truth when they believe something because their parents said so, or because they nearly died? Take for example your post about your parents/sister: It seems your parents dont respect the fact that people can make their own decisions in life without condemnation. If it was for safety/health reasons i'd understand but to say someone can't lead their own life because of some big invisible dood is in my opinion insane and delusional. The ending of life- passing it over to someone in the sky. All are entitled to their own belief but no need to burden others with it.
Aside from all that i believe aliens put us here
It's the only one that sounds funny..... everything else is too moralistic, contradictory, self righteous, hypocritical and stupid for my likingHey snake,
I was taught it as a kid but did not, other than having an iterest in the history, understand most of it. However I am very interested in history and science and space and through studying that all evidence points to a creator. Doing Mission work later in life as a favor to a friend I also got to witness the work of God and this just further interested me in discovering. Based on what I was taught as a child and learned as an adult there can be no other truth except that Christ is the way. Several people who have set out as scientists to prove this invalid have come to conclude that its right. The bible tells us that scripture will seem like encoded nonsense to the fool with the closed mind. But to the person open to the Holy spirit all truth is revealed. Try reading one of these books for a science view.
"More than a carpenter" by Josh Mcdowell
"The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel
I was taught it as a kid but did not, other than having an iterest in the history, understand most of it. However I am very interested in history and science and space and through studying that all evidence points to a creator. Doing Mission work later in life as a favor to a friend I also got to witness the work of God and this just further interested me in discovering. Based on what I was taught as a child and learned as an adult there can be no other truth except that Christ is the way. Several people who have set out as scientists to prove this invalid have come to conclude that its right. The bible tells us that scripture will seem like encoded nonsense to the fool with the closed mind. But to the person open to the Holy spirit all truth is revealed. Try reading one of these books for a science view.
"More than a carpenter" by Josh Mcdowell
"The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel
I spent my whole life in search of happines and the spiritual world. I come from a Christian family and my parents taught me to go to church and to respect God. When I grew up, I made my own decisions. I could not find God, or I did not want to find God. So I started living living on the street and I spent a lot of time on the street. I was not part of a gang, but we did a lot of the things that gangs do. All of my friends were gangsters of some kind, and I had no religious friends at all. But that was not happines.
Before long, I got mixed up with alcohol and drugs. I got to the point where I could not look into my parent's eyes anymore. All I did was drink and do drugs. One day my mom told me that God had sent her a dream that the devil was going to try to kill me. The dream came true and I had to overdoses in my life. So I stopped living that kind of life.
But I was still searching for happines. And one day God opened up to me. All I did was say a small prayer and I felt God. I mean literally. I actually felt God. From that point on, I am a vigorous Ñhristian and a preacher. I have seen many miracles in my life. This is how I came to God.
Before long, I got mixed up with alcohol and drugs. I got to the point where I could not look into my parent's eyes anymore. All I did was drink and do drugs. One day my mom told me that God had sent her a dream that the devil was going to try to kill me. The dream came true and I had to overdoses in my life. So I stopped living that kind of life.
But I was still searching for happines. And one day God opened up to me. All I did was say a small prayer and I felt God. I mean literally. I actually felt God. From that point on, I am a vigorous Ñhristian and a preacher. I have seen many miracles in my life. This is how I came to God.
CounslerCoffee
Registered Senior Member
Hi Belle!
I started believing in God right after he killed my Mom. See, it wasn't enough that she was a good woman, so he had to kill her slowly with cancer. Ah, just kidding. I have faith, I do believe. But actually, Im looking very hard into Buddhism right now. It's really groovy.
P.S. My mom is fine and alive.
I started believing in God right after he killed my Mom. See, it wasn't enough that she was a good woman, so he had to kill her slowly with cancer. Ah, just kidding. I have faith, I do believe. But actually, Im looking very hard into Buddhism right now. It's really groovy.
P.S. My mom is fine and alive.
Jaypack,
Welcome to sciforums.
“Atheism – The Case Against God” by George H Smith.
“The Jesus Puzzle” By Earl Doherty.
“The Christ Conspiracy” by Acharya S.
These will allow you to understand the fallacies of Christianity and the mythological basis for Christianity.
Have you ever really tried living without faith? I.e. using the opposite of faith which is reason and logic.
Welcome to sciforums.
I study science as well and I see that all the evidence points to there not being a creator.
What type of science do you study?
Did you witness the work of a god or was it the hard work, tenacity, and creativity of humans?
Then you are in a minority since two thirds of the world are not Christian. Have you considered looking at other ideas?
I’m afraid that is Christian propaganda. There are even more scientists who find no truth in religion.
You should realize that some of the best propaganda is designed to make the opposition appear to be foolish and to imply that if you don’t believe then you too would be foolish. The tactic works well on the gullible. Also bear in mind that it is the Christian that has the closed mind since they have determined that God is the truth and are not prepared to consider any alternatives.
Said often enough then people will believe anything.
Now balance your education with these books -
“Atheism – The Case Against God” by George H Smith.
“The Jesus Puzzle” By Earl Doherty.
“The Christ Conspiracy” by Acharya S.
These will allow you to understand the fallacies of Christianity and the mythological basis for Christianity.
Have you ever really tried living without faith? I.e. using the opposite of faith which is reason and logic.
Visitor
-Belle
I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with my religion.
You're right with part of that statement. I don't care who wrote it. But I don't recall asking for answers. I simply wanted to know about other people's religions. See, unlike you, I actually responded to SnakeLord.
Seeing as I don't believe in the powers of your God, I don't see the need to pray to him. Thanks for trying to help though :bugeye:
-Belle
Everneo,
But I had a good manual to work from. The bible is indeed one of the best guides to propaganda. But then the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible. I find it a great pity that not enough Christians read the bible. We could do with more deconverts to atheism.
NeoBeetnik38
Registered Senior Member
I fail to see why you are so opposed to the idea of a God.
The bible says a lot of things. Very unfortunate. Calling people who don't quite get it fools seems like a great way to drive them away.
Why? Does it really bother you that much that so many people beleive in God? I'm happy for them.
In the future, I would suggest rewording that. When it comes to talking to philosophy board regulars, christianity is just like so totaly uncool. You gotta say things like "God is SO not controling me!"
If thats how you want to live, then whats the point? Is the truth really enough? Anyway, how can you be so sure your right? "Disproving" christianity just means that they got it wrong. Does that mean that there was no truth in what they said? If religion is so wrong, then why does it appear in every culture? Could there still be something out there? Was I coherent? Did I come off as an @sshole? I seriously need to know. Or do I................:bugeye:
Hi Nebeetnik,
The result is a large dead weight that slows down the chances of a better life for everyone.
The idea is fine. The problem comes when people believe such things exist. That pretty much ends their search for real truth and any possible contributions they might have made to human progress.
The result is a large dead weight that slows down the chances of a better life for everyone.
Having too many people around who can’t think clearly results in things like suicide bombers, racism, bigotry, discrimination, and war. I’d much prefer a more rational world.
Finding real truth means knowledge and knowledge gives the power to survive. I want to survive. Religions are in my way.
Years of research and the ability to see clearly. When the entire mosaic of religious history is seen objectively then several major factors become very visible; zero evidence, a powerful and overwhelming desire to cheat death, a powerful human desire to have answers whether true or not, human gullibility through ignorance. And a serious lack of credibility.
It’s like moving through a maze and reaching a dead end. The journey might have been enjoyable but the result was useless.
See my notes above concerning human nature.
So let’s go look for it in a rational objective manner. Believing something because it might be nice is simply idiotic.
Good questions. Keep it up.
Please, do tell, why are you curious?
If there is a big invisible dood called God he ranks way behind her.
That's a silly thing to say.
Anyone who puts love in some big invisible guy/woman/spirit before their own children is a fool.
That’s not how it works my not-so well informed friend.
I would never attempt to force her to believe what i believe- that in itself shows just how wrong religion is.....
Are you saying that people here who believe in God are forced?
Do you have any evidence to back that statement up?
How can anyone claim to know the truth when they believe something because their parents said so,
My parents are atheist, they told me nothing about God.
The ending of life- passing it over to someone in the sky.
Passing it over to someone in the sky, I think you need to understand what it is you are talking about, before making such ignorant, asinine statements.
Love
Jan Ardena.
The key to understanding comes from being able to see things from all angles. Much that you can disagree with a belief it's still important to see why that person believes as they do.
Eh? How so? My daughter comes before you, me, god, anyone. End of case. That's not silly at all. You expect me to say i don't love my children as much as an unproven spirit in the sky? No wonder kids are so fucking messed up these days. Or, if im off the mark, YOU tell me why it's silly. Back up your words with details.
You seem to think the way to retort to something is to leave a pointless one sentence insult. And no, we are not friends. Sounds more like you're not too well informed. If that isn't how it works how about you explain how it does work? I said anyone who puts their love in an unsubstantiated, unproven invisible being before their own children is a fool. That statement still stands.
Just woke up? When your child is born they get a birth cetificate. If you class them as..... say... christian- you have already begun to label without asking their opinion on your religion. You then teach them as they grow up to believe exactly as you do- you take them to church- you give them no choice of their own, all is dictated. To do that is to take advantage of someone without a voice and subscribe them to something without their consent, without their understanding solely because of what you believe in.
My point exactly. You found god... you weren't forced into something. If your parents were religiously Jewish you'd now be in here arguing for some other religions beliefs. Instead your parents allowed you to make up your own mind. My sentence referred directly to 'stamping' your belief onto a child before it understands any of it. If you leave your child to come to their own conclusions then surely- if it's the only real belief- it would end up a christian.
Before making such ignorant, asinine statements you should understand what it is you're talking about. You work on faith: (Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence). Thus you have absolutely no more valid a claim to know the 'truth'. You make bold assumptions yet have absolutely 0 proof to anything. You don't understand anything any better than anyone else does. You assume you do, through nothing but ignorance. The fact remains you don't.
Originally posted by SnakeLord
Eh? How so? My daughter comes before you, me, god, anyone. End of case. That's not silly at all.
From your earlier statement, you said, “ I believe in my daughter. If there is a big invisible dood called God he ranks way behind her. She's of the utmost importance in my life. Anyone who puts love in some big invisible guy/woman/spirit before their own children is a fool.
From this, I can understand (correct me if wrong) that you are not sure whether or not God exists. From your perspective, if He doesn’t exist then your point is valid, however, if He does exist, then you are making a mistake, meaning you may not be giving you daughter the best possible chance, in a spiritual context. Now obviously this is your own choice, and that is what faith is, it is not something you find, it is something one chooses. I find it silly that you would make the choices you have, without first understanding properly, that which you vehemently deny.
You expect me to say i don't love my children as much as an unproven spirit in the sky?
No I don’t.
Can you prove to me you love your children?
If that isn't how it works how about you explain how it does work?
Firstly, it is not that God is invisible, it is that we cannot see Him, there is a difference.
You talk about love, no-one can see love, it may be possible to see the effects of love, but one can only see that if one has some understanding of what love is, so there has to be some kind of relationship, it is generally more obvious when one has children, because, as, like you, people tend to put their childrens welfare before their own. They would most likely think nothing of sacrificing their own lives to protect their children, this is a very strong belief, this is the threshold of real love, from there we can understand what love is. Unfortunately this type of love is only temporal, as we and our children are locked in this relationship for a few years, then it is finished, but love itself is not temporal, as it is non-physical, it goes beyond our fleeting relationship with the physical.
God is non-physical, according to the Bhagavad Gita, this cosmic manifestation is one of Gods inferior energies and is only here due to our active desire, in the same way a government builds prisons purely through the actions of its citizens, and not for any other reason.
So how it works is that the innate love which we possess must reach out, beyond the physical realm, which at first will be faith, and as one develops ones faith it becomes clear that we ourselves are not these temporary bodies. This is where it starts in any bona-fide religion.
Just woke up? When your child is born they get a birth cetificate…………………...
Yeah yeah!
You haven’t answered my questions, in case you didn’t see it, here they are again;
Are you saying that people here who believe in God, are forced?
Do you have any evidence to back that statement up?
My point exactly.
No, your point is that anyone who believes in God are fools.
You work on faith: (Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence).
Neither does love, but it far outweighs anything in this material world.
Love
Jan Ardena.
No we have a misunderstanding. If there isn't a god i love my daughter above all others. If there is a God i still love my daughter above all others including God. If i did believe there was a God i still would not put the love of my child after him/it. It can wait in line. I do not serve or answer to anyone other than my daughter. You might not understand that and being as you don't understand it from my point of view you have little right to say it's a mistake. I have sudied many religious texts and have some room to comment on them in debating manner. I do this in order to give knowledge and understanding, and gain knowledge and understanding. Have you studied giving love to your children before God? If you claim to have done and say God would come before them, in my eyes you're not a very good parent.
I study, i read, i search and based upon all available evidence make the most accurate base. I continue to study no matter what the evidence points to in case more evidence should arise.
Evidence suggesting my daughter is here and needs my love and guidance: FACT
Evidence suggesting there's a big all powerful creator: MINIMAL.
One is fact, one isn't. Regardless to whether the second was fact i would still give the love and devotion to my children first and foremost.
Can you prove to me God loves his children? Then surely if you understand the love God has for his children you would be able to understand the love i have for mine.
Do you have children?
Ok.....
Those who are born into faith have been forced, yes. Once you're old enough to make up your own mind things can, but probably wont change.
We are under orders from God. We don't have to follow these orders but then we are condemned. That's not really 'choice'. It's kinda like a 'do or die' situation. Some regard the fact that you can say no and then be condemned as free will but in my book it's nothing more than camouflaged slavery.
You'll probably disagree with me on this and quote some things in attempt to alleviate the issue but ask yourself this: What happens if you sit down now and say: "Fuck god, i want no part in this false belief"? Yes, that is your 'choice' but what's the eventual outcome of such a move?
Not at all. we all need answers and will find whatever we think best to offer some comfort to our own lack of understanding, (cosmos, mortality etc etc). That is all fine. Maybe what i do find foolish is answers without proof. That's not an answer, it's just a gap filler. If you understand it's merely to make life more 'comfortable' thats one thing but to walk around stating it as undeniable fact is a tad naive. As i've said 1000 times on this forum- your belief is your belief, but it is just a belief.
You stand up for your beliefe with 100% certainty and deny all others that right. They do the exact same thing. Religion after religion after religion all acting in exactly the same manner. All believing themselves to be right and everyone else to be wrong. I look at all scenarios and based upon evidence find the most probable. It is however still just a belief. That is our main difference here. I consider everything as a belief, you consider yours the only correct one. Everything else is mere faith whereas yours is absolute fact. hat's what i find foolish.
If i'm wrong, im wrong- no big deal. I can argue the fact at the gates of heaven that i, made in the image of god, needed more than an old book written by shepherds. I looked and didnt find.. After all, im just a pathetic human. I get forgiven by the mercy of the lord.
If you're wrong everyone else laughs at you, or you just wasted a perfectly good life in servitude of something that wasn't even there. You put your kids behind something that didn't even exist. You put your own life behind something that didn't even exist. You have a lot more to lose than i do.
Two completely different things.
Originally posted by SnakeLord
God. If i did believe there was a God i still would not put the love of my child after him/it. It can wait in line. I do not serve or answer to anyone other than my daughter.
Love is not a rational choice, you cannot force yourself to love another anymore than you can force someone to love you. If God does exist (from your perspective), and you believed in Him, based on revealed scriptoral authority, you would understand that God is the origin of everything, including you and your daughter, and that the love you have for her is but a reflection of the eternal love you have for God as opposed to the temporaral love.
you have little right to say it's a mistake.
I never said it was a mistake, I replied to your request, as to why I thought it was silly. Before I can say you are making a mistake, I would have to be mistake-less, which I am not.
I have sudied many religious texts and have some room to comment on them in debating manner.
If that is the case, then what is this “passing over to someone in the sky” rhetoric?
Where does it say this in any religious text?
I do this in order to give knowledge and understanding, and gain knowledge and understanding.
Then please refrain from insults such as “morons” or “fools”, as this appears contradictory to the intelligence you have.
If you claim to have done and say God would come before them, in my eyes you're not a very good parent.
There are many different levels in God-consciousness, at no point are there any competitions, but at every point there is understanding. At the highest level of G-c, the practitioner sees no difference between any living being, be it dog, human, ant, fish etc. He sees these different bodily designation as different manifestations of the individual soul, due to its particular consciousness, he therefore loves the eteranal soul, which he sees as part and parcel of the Supreme, Gigantic soul, God.
Then surely if you understand the love God has for his children you would be able to understand the love i have for mine.
I don’t doubt that you love your children, I am just asking you to prove you do.
Do you have children?
Yes.
Those who are born into faith have been forced, yes.
So don’t you think in the majority of cases parents love their children, much like yourself?
If that is so, then where is the question of force?
Is it wrong for a parent to want the best for their children?
Once you're old enough to make up your own mind things can, but probably wont change.
Whose choice is that?
We are under orders from God. We don't have to follow these orders but then we are condemned.
God does not order you, He merely states that if you act in such and such a way, then this will be the result, according to the laws of nature, so He kindly suggests ways in which one can avert these dangers.
The condemnation of the individual soul is due to the actions of the individual soul, in the bible it says “the wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life”.
but in my book it's nothing more than camouflaged slavery.
But not so in the scriptures.
What happens if you sit down now and say: "Fuck god, i want no part in this false belief"?
Then you live your life in the way you choose and whatever actions you perform, the exact reactions will be meted out to you, according to the laws of nature.
Maybe what i do find foolish is answers without proof.
You say you love your daughter, yet you cannot provide any proof of that love when asked, should I believe you, not believe you, or is it none of my business?
As i've said 1000 times on this forum- your belief is your belief, but it is just a belief.
There are lots on this forum who believe things which they themselves have no proof, but have taken it on authority as fact, such as life doesn’t have to come from life, regardless of the on going proof which confronts them daily, so as far as I am concerned everything on this forum amounts to someone’s beliefs, what is fact, is generally regarded as fact by most, atheist and theist.
You stand up for your beliefe with 100% certainty and deny all others that right.
Do I?
I consider everything as a belief, you consider yours the only correct one.
Have I said, in any post, that my belief is the only correct one?
Please point it out. (if you can)
If i'm wrong, im wrong- no big deal. I can argue the fact at the gates of heaven that i, made in the image of god, needed more than an old book.
Where did you get the idea of the gates of heaven, or made in the image of God, if not from an old book?
It is a big deal if you’re wrong, because you would have put the spiritual well-being of your beloved daughter in serious jeapordy.
If you're wrong everyone else laughs at you, or you just wasted a perfectly good life in servitude of something that wasn't even there.
How would it be possible for everyone to laught at me?
If I’m happy, how could I have possibly wasted my perfectly good life, what is it that you do that I would be missing out on?
Two completely different things.
How so, faith is based on love. There is no rational explanation for either, yet they are two of the strongest forces known to man.
Why do you love your daughter, do you have any rational explanation, besides she’s my daughter?
Can you imagine hating her?
Why would you sacrifice your life (assuming you would) for her, how would it benefit you, your survival?
Love
Jan Ardena.