How can unbelievers come to believe in God?
- Thread starter Enmos
- Start date
Belief cannot happen at all since the Idea is self-contradictory: Beings, or even beings, such as aliens or ourselves, cannot be fundamental, and therefore cannot be first, planning and creating everything via their system of mind.
Even an apparent miracle could just be that of some higher life form who has evolved further than we have.
Theists expect miracles in conversion, too. They just really want what they want.
And then there is science, too, overturning theology right and left, plus the philosophic analysis of why anything exists at all, which reduce to only two choices, both of which have eternalness, obviating any creation at all, and a Creator.
Other nonbelievers may just note that the Notion is outright claimed with no proof, and is thus of no consequence.
Even an apparent miracle could just be that of some higher life form who has evolved further than we have.
Theists expect miracles in conversion, too. They just really want what they want.
And then there is science, too, overturning theology right and left, plus the philosophic analysis of why anything exists at all, which reduce to only two choices, both of which have eternalness, obviating any creation at all, and a Creator.
Other nonbelievers may just note that the Notion is outright claimed with no proof, and is thus of no consequence.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
It's my firm belief that most (not all) theists are, on some level, clinically insane. I've got a few Aunts who profess continuously that God has literally spoken to them, and continues to on a daily basis. They both firmly, and may I reiterate, LITERALLY believe that they hear the physical voice of God in their own heads - that if they ask a question, God literally answers them directly. This is not a metaphor.
And there are others who believe that God shows them things, whether it be a right choice to choose, or something. I find it absolutely amazing the people that feel God communicates with them directly. It's frightening!
"I have a relationship with Jesus."
Do you? Really? And of course when I ask what evidence they have to believe this, they can never show me any evidence, but nevertheless insist it's true because it's their "own personal experiences".
I'm sorry but this is a a key symptom of schizophrenia and dimentia. Believing, without provable evidence, that an imaginary being actually talks to you is frightening.
With that being said, I believe in the possibility of a higher being. But since there is no evidence that either proves or disproves that existence, then I can only go off what my own reason and universably proven life experience.
What would make me believe in God without doubt? Well, I honestly have no idea. Even if a being that claimed to be God appeared and made the sun turn pink or made the oceans hover in mid-air, I would still look to find a logical explination and I would still try to find out if it really is or is not God. I don't really think that there will ever be a way to officially prove God's existence, that is, if it really exists. Throughout the history of existence there has always been an explination for everything in the universe. And as to the argument that God has always existed, I don't believe it. Even if there was truly a God, I would be looking for God's creator, which obviously would be higher than God itself. SOooooooooo in a long, roundabout summary, I don't think, as a free-thinker, that it is possible to ever prove the existance of God as an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being.
Last edited:
A vision, an appearance, maybe a near death experience, and bad events or traumatic situations can create a belief.
I think you have to be open to the idea or even want to find faith beforehand though.
It a big reason, but not the main one. Some people just can't fathom it out, and it seems a ludicrous idea to many.
There are many atheists who would love to have faith or become religious maybe because they are in a bad place, but you can't just snap your fingers and say "oh OK, I'll believe now" if you just don't.
I expect you to see the governing force that controls destiny like I see it . Shit F--ck Me anyway . F--ck I wish some one could? So I figure if me rhetoric is clear enough some ones going to get it . I have made a great discovery whether anybody believes it or not it is still true . It is based in onomastics and is part of governing forces that control actions of humans . I know it sounds ridiculous hocus pocus to everyone , but if it is true everyone's going to get in the end , or possible I could be banned and have to find some others to understand . I know that is always a possibility .
To tell you straight up . I don't tell lies . I know my posts have the appearance of being lies . F---cking fate will do that to ya . I think the creating force is playing a joke on Me . If you can see the hidden language like I see it you would change your mind . I encourage people to read my posts until they start to understand . It is hard I know to read past my conceit and I do understand how offensive it is. Can't help that because I am caught up in the dream just as much as anybody
I for one don't expect you or anybody to find faith, so the term, and i'm sure
there are other theists who don't.
jan.
How mean of you! You want to keep all the goodies to yourself?!
How can unbelievers come to believe in God.
Simple. Start worshipping.
@Enmos. You could try fetishism for a start.
def. The attribution of religious or mystical qualities to inanimate objects.
How to become a fetishist.
Take an inanimate object such as a stone.
You could make up a ritual for the finding of the stone.
Make an altar for it, and place candles round it.
Every morning and night, after lighting the candles, talk to the stone and ask it for favours.
Tell it what a beautiful and powerful stone it is.
Do this for two weeks, and you will begin to believe that there is some entity within the stone. You will be a fetishist.
Simple. Start worshipping.
@Enmos. You could try fetishism for a start.
def. The attribution of religious or mystical qualities to inanimate objects.
How to become a fetishist.
Take an inanimate object such as a stone.
You could make up a ritual for the finding of the stone.
Make an altar for it, and place candles round it.
Every morning and night, after lighting the candles, talk to the stone and ask it for favours.
Tell it what a beautiful and powerful stone it is.
Do this for two weeks, and you will begin to believe that there is some entity within the stone. You will be a fetishist.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The conclusion to your premise is, therefore, that the atheist must become irrational in order to abandon his reasoned position.
The most common reason for abandoning rationality is, in my observation, grief. Bereaved people are notorious for becoming unreasonable. Here in the Western world, the most profound grief likely to touch the average citizen is the death of a child.
So look for an atheist whose six year-old child was just killed by a tornado, an auto accident, a drive-by shooting, an exotic pathogen, etc. Tell him that if he puts his faith in a god whom he has always regarded as imaginary, he will one day see that child again, alive and well and happy and waiting for him in heaven.
I have no children but over the course of my life I've had to endure the death of more than ten beloved dogs. I don't for a second equate that with the loss of a child, but nonetheless in my life it's been a lot of grief. Apparently the religionists don't really want me, because they consistently tell me that if against all odds I find my way to heaven, my dogs won't be there because they have no "souls."
Instead, my hateful parents will be waiting for me. Theists really need to work on their marketing skills.
I've just googled the dog question, and I can't find a single site that says it is impossible for dogs to go to heaven.
While researching the dogs in heaven question, I found this cartoon:
Heh Heh
While researching the dogs in heaven question, I found this cartoon:
Heh Heh
when god introduced himself into my life it was very impactive. if you consider what god is supposed to be, certainly it's not farfetched to think that he could present himself to you in a way that, unless you're purposely in denial, would be a valid reason to believe.
keep in mind that people can deny anything if they really want to. we all know that.
If you believe that there are unique and important benefits to believing in God, and you yourself believe in God - then it is mean not to at least try to introduce others to those benefits as well.
It's not clear how people who have been atheists their whole life, in a time of great need or other severe distress can successfully turn to religion/spirituality/God.
My own experience is that the time of need is the worst, least conducive time for trying to begin to believe in God.
And we all know that people are, intheir core, evil, rotten, corrupted completely!
speak for yourself signal.
Wouldn't a god know what it takes to make a person believe? Certainly an all powerful being could, if they wanted to, do anything convincing enough for anyone. The biblical god did in the past, although looking at his miracles, they could now be explained by natural phenomena seen by ignorant people, or simulated by modern technology.
But certainly he could set up miracles to be unexplainable to us.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
I was once surfing through Christian websites (always pays to see what the enemy is up to) and I found one in which a panel of pastors were counseling parents in how to answer their children's questions about religious matters. One lady said that the family dog had just died and the children were consoling themselves with the promise that he'd be waiting for them in heaven. However, she knew that heaven is for souls and only humans have souls so no other animals could be there, and she wondered how to break the news to the kids, since it would devastate them. The pastor said that since God could do anything he wanted to, he could easily reconstruct their dog right down to the last hair and the last behavior quirk, so that they would be incapable of distinguishing him from the real dog. Since this is a rather complicated thing to explain to a small child, he said it would be okay for her to let them continue believing that their very own dog would be there when they arrived, and wait until they were older to explain the details.
In other words: Lie to 'em, lady. It's the Christian thing to do.
It's generally true that Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Rasta, etc.) specifies that non-human animals have no souls. This is in marked contrast to many other systems. Hinduism, for example, says that if you live an evil life your soul will be reincarnated in some lowly animal like a heartworm and you'll have to work your way back up to humanity by being a really noble heartworm. And your first assignment will be to figure out just exactly how a really noble heartworm should behave--with no brain to do the figuring.
The Christian model of Heaven leaves a lot of details to the imagination, so the various sects and even individuals have their own accretions--so certainly many of them have simply decided that their faithful dog will be there because he is more "Christian" than they are and to have it otherwise would make God unjust.
And that's nothing compared to Hell. In the last poll I saw, the majority of American Christians believe in Heaven but only about 25% believe in Hell at all.
That's nice to know, I guess. I suppose if they begin to believe in God they have to believe that that same God let this crappy thing happen to them, and it doesn't make for a nice introduction.
The Christians who have studied the philosophy of their religion insist that God does not want to give them incontrovertible evidence of his existence. He wants them to believe out of faith, not reason.
This, in a nutshell, is why I say that religion--at least Christianity--is antiscience and has no place in our academy. Reason is fundamental to science. Anyone who believes that it's proper to believe something of really major importance simply out of unreasoned faith will never be completely trustworthy as a scientist.
yes, god does and can. that's basically what i said, but then went on to explain that some people don't want to believe no matter what, and god knows that too. surely you've known people who are in denial about things that are so obvious to everyone else around them right?