Homosexaul Rights

[ElectricFetus]

We don't need those regulations........private property is the greatest regulation.

I can see it now, all law reduced to a single paragraph and ooh god the loop holes and dilemmas that will arise, soon new laws will be added and it will become a bureaucratic nightmare, then we will have ideologies like you demand we return to simple ideals, they will elect people who claim they will do such things, but once in power those fuckers will just make things worse from their corruption and the whole cycle will return to what it is today.

 

[Norsefire]

I can see it now, all law reduced to a single paragraph and ooh god the loop holes and dilemmas that will arise, soon new laws will be added and it will become a bureaucratic nightmare, then we will have ideologies like you demand we return to simple ideals, they will elect people who claim they will do such things, but once in power those fuckers will just make things worse from their corruption and the whole cycle will return to what it is today.

'The hell are you talking about? Private property solves all dispute problems.......the government just needs to protect private property.

Public property, on the other hand, suffers from neglect, abuse, and arguments.

 

[Tiassa]

Freedom and robbery

Of course..........which means social and economic freedom, but you like to ignore the latter.

The economic freedom can render social justice and freedom meaningless. The purpose of civilization, of human societies, goes beyond any one individual.

We don't need those regulations........private property is the greatest regulation.

Property is robbery.

Property, the dominion of man's needs, the denial of the right to satisfy his needs. Time was when property claimed a divine right, when it came to man with the same refrain, even as religion, "Sacrifice! Abnegate! Submit!" The spirit of Anarchism has lifted man from his prostrate position. He now stands erect, with his face toward the light. He has learned to see the insatiable, devouring, devastating nature of property, and he is preparing to strike the monster dead.

"Property is robbery," said the great French Anarchist Proudhon. Yes, but without risk and danger to the robber. Monopolizing the accumulated efforts of man, property has robbed him of his birthright, and has turned him loose a pauper and an outcast. Property has not even the time-worn excuse that man does not create enough to satisfy all needs. The A B C student of economics knows that the productivity of labor within the last few decades far exceeds normal demand. But what are normal demands to an abnormal institution? The only demand that property recognizes is its own gluttonous appetite for greater wealth, because wealth means power; the power to subdue, to crush, to exploit, the power to enslave, to outrage, to degrade. America is particularly boastful of her great power, her enormous national wealth. Poor America, of what avail is all her wealth, if the individuals comprising the nation are wretchedly poor? If they live in squalor, in filth, in crime, with hope and joy gone, a homeless, soilless army of human prey.

It is generally conceded that unless the returns of any business venture exceed the cost, bankruptcy is inevitable. But those engaged in the business of producing wealth have not yet learned even this simple lesson. Every year the cost of production in human life is growing larger (50,000 killed, 100,000 wounded in America last year); the returns to the masses, who help to create wealth, are ever getting smaller. Yet America continues to be blind to the inevitable bankruptcy of our business of production. Nor is this the only crime of the latter. Still more fatal is the crime of turning the producer into a mere particle of a machine, with less will and decision than his master of steel and iron. Man is being robbed not merely of the products of his labor, but of the power of free initiative, of originality, and the interest in, or desire for, the things he is making.

(Goldman)​

____________________

Notes:

Goldman, Emma. "Anarchism: What It Really Stands For". Anarchism and Other Essays. Second revised edition. New York and London: Mother Earth, 1911. Pitzer.edu. March 1, 2010. http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_archives/goldman/aando/anarchism.html

 

[ElectricFetus]

'The hell are you talking about? Private property solves all dispute problems.......the government just needs to protect private property.

Nowhere in history is there evidence of this claim.

 

[pjdude1219]

'The hell are you talking about? Private property solves all dispute problems.......the government just needs to protect private property.

no it doesn't

Public property, on the other hand, suffers from neglect, abuse, and arguments.

because of people like you who want it gone because they can't stand people being helped and not at the mercy of the powerful

 

[ElectricFetus]

because of people like you who want it gone because they can't stand people being helped and not at the mercy of the powerful

Right on! Right there is the core reason government is "failing" in America and yet doing so well in many other first world countries, in the USA its underfunded and ill organized, money goes to empire command and control instead of the people.

 

[sifreak21]

Marriage maybe
Civil Unions yes
Adoption absolutely not

coudl not disagree more on the last one, comming from someone who is adopted id rather have 2 gay parents than a man/woman whit domestic violence all over.. some of the best parents i knwo are gay.. being gay doesnt make you a bad parent at all.

 

[ElectricFetus]

coudl not disagree more on the last one, comming from someone who is adopted id rather have 2 gay parents than a man/woman whit domestic violence all over.. some of the best parents i knwo are gay.. being gay doesnt make you a bad parent at all.

Yeah but he afraid the child will catch the gay, or worse act all pansy. I wonder if he also fears girls catching the gay, or worse acting all butch.

 

[quadraphonics]

Technically, yes; but, you still need government for the protection and recognition of property rights and contractual agreements.

Okay. But that is a restriction on freedom.

You don't "limit freedom" though. Not in the way you are referring to it. The only thing you do to "limit freedom" is to centralize the authority that recognizes private property and contracts, and adjudicates disputes...........aside from that, it's then up to you. The government only lays out the foundation, which is private property....and does nothing else. So it's really not limiting freedom.

Sure it is. They are placing explicit limits on what you can and can't do, and backing that up with force. That is a limitation on freedom, under any sensible definition of the word.

Which is why I'm not advocating anarchy.

I've noticed. I just want you to recognize that this requires you to advocate restrictions on freedom.

'Course........you're not free to kill or steal.

So you don't want to maximize freedom then. There are certain things - killing, stealing, etc. - that people should NOT be free to do; the provision of such freedom is a bad thing, which a government must be created to defend against.

So clearly the goal is not to maximize freedom as such; only certain specific types of freedom. Which begs the question of what we are maximizing, that imposes these restrictions on freedom. I've hazarded before that it's prosperity, and I do so again now. Your attachment to freedom is instrumental, curtailed the moment it clashes with prosperity, and so is not being pursued in its own right.

 

[Orleander]

do gay people have the right to demand that others change their religious beliefs?

 

[quadraphonics]

do gay people have the right to demand that others change their religious beliefs?

In America, they have the right to demand that the religious beliefs of others do not become enshrined in the state or otherwise impinge on their own freedoms.

So to the extent that the religious beliefs in question include violating the rights of others, or violating the separation of church and state, any American has the right to demand that adherents to those beliefs either change them or refrain from acting on them.

 

[Giambattista]

It's funny how nearly every thread about homosexuality is an instant dozen pages or so. It's an all-time fave.

 

[pjdude1219]

do gay people have the right to demand that others change their religious beliefs?

Are you truly that delusional to believe this shit? I mean honestly saying this kind of shit should grounds of removal from humanity. They aren't demanding any one to change their religious beliefs. they are demanding to be treated the same as everyone else.

 

[Tiassa]

Thank them for the laugh

I mean honestly saying this kind of shit should grounds of removal from humanity.

I wouldn't go that far. But there's no reason people shouldn't just laugh, walk away, and ignore such idiocy. And, as we see with Sarah Palin, it would be better if people did just that.

 

[Giambattista]

I wouldn't go that far. But there's no reason people shouldn't just laugh, walk away, and ignore such idiocy. And, as we see with Sarah Palin, it would be better if people did just that.

Dammit, Tiassa you bleeding-heart liberal! Sarah Palin is soo serious... DEADLY serious!

She's a serious comedian as well, apparently!

 

[sifreak21]

do gay people have the right to demand that others change their religious beliefs?

do religious people have the right to look down on others becuase there preferences or beliefs are different? it could almost be a fact that religious people are the most hypocritical people on earth

 

[sifreak21]

violating the separation of church and state.

the US views the vatacin as there own country so this is thrown out the window

 

[sifreak21]

Are you truly that delusional to believe this shit? I mean honestly saying this kind of shit should grounds of removal from humanity. They aren't demanding any one to change their religious beliefs. they are demanding to be treated the same as everyone else.

couldnt agree more pj

 

[quadraphonics]

the US views the vatacin as there own country so this is thrown out the window

The Vatican is its own country. It's not up to the US to decide otherwise.

The separation of church and state applies to the United States.