Homophobia in atheists

[nirakar]

Hard to remember the good of the Middle East with issues like the subjugation of women and terrorism. And there's been some outstanding good, and I don't let bad seeds influence how I view the good of the whole.

It's is the people that are good but it is not something that makes good newspaper content.

Their music and food also are good.

The sincerity, inquisitiveness, intensity and humbleness with which some Middle-Easterners approach religion appeals to me as well but I can say the same for some American Christians and I have to remember that the narrow minded, arrogant, loudmouth, hate versions of Christianity and Islam are just a small step away from the beautiful intense humble versions of Christianity and Islam.

 

[takandjive]

I don't ever recall doing that. I doubt I've spared anything I've examined too closely and I'm a harsh self critic too. So you'll have to excuse me if I say horsepuckey to you.

*GASP* Horsepuckey? SAM!!! *Faints*

Well, okay, but I don't think all Westerners are self-deluding snots. (I'm just a regular snot.) As long as we can agree both cultures have their failings. I would certainly like to see a more stable Middle East with less Western interference, and we both can agree to that.

*Shakes her head.* Horsepuckey. Potty mouth!

 

[S.A.M.]

nirakar:

Re: your on topic interruption on the previous page.

Is Gwen Araujo the character played by Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry?

I wonder how much part social repression plays in hate crimes.

I would certainly like to see a more stable Middle East with less Western interference, and we both can agree to that.

Amen.

 

[Norsefire]

"The West" is a vague and meaningless term. What is "the West' and what is "western culture"? It's diverse.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Gayness naturally grosses people out, they (if they are male, for example) imagine themselves kissing a dude, perhaps stroking his nuts, or ravenously motorboating his masculine buns, and yeah it makes them feel physically ill. Most people are innately homophobic, some strive hard to correct this flaw in themself.
Mostly atheists, because religious types have scripture backing up their natural feelings and affirming them, they believe god hates gayness and that suits them fine since they already instinctually hate gayness, there's no reason to change. Atheists are more likely to try and understand, but this doesn't mean every atheist will succeed. I for one can't get past the motorboating.

 

[S.A.M.]

Gayness naturally grosses people out, they (if they are male, for example) imagine themselves kissing a dude, perhaps stroking his nuts, or ravenously motorboating his masculine buns, and yeah it makes them feel physically ill. Most people are innately homophobic, some strive hard to correct this flaw in themself.
Mostly atheists, because religious types have scripture backing up their natural feelings and affirming them, they believe god hates gayness and that suits them fine since they already instinctually hate gayness, there's no reason to change. Atheists are more likely to try and understand, but this doesn't mean every atheist will succeed. I for one can't get past the motorboating.

Have you considered the possibility that you might be a latent homosexual?

You can test it:

A theory that homophobia is a result of latent homosexuality was put forth in the late 20th century. A 1996 study conducted at the University of Georgia by Henry Adams, Lester Wright Jr., and Bethany Lohr[1] indicates that a number of "homophobic" males exhibit latent homosexuality. The research was done on 64 heterosexual men, 35 of whom exhibited "homophobic" traits and 29 who did not. Three tests were conducted using penile plethysmography. While there was no difference in response when the men were exposed to heterosexual and lesbian pornography, there was a major difference in response when the men were exposed to male homosexual pornography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_homosexuality

 

[nirakar]

nirakar:


Is Gwen Araujo the character played by Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry?

)

No, Boys Don't Cry was a similar true story based on a different boy. There was a movie made about Gwen Araujo as well but it was less well known and has no movie stars. Gwen Araujo's case was from my metro area so I remembered her/his name when I saw this thread.

 

[nirakar]

Have you considered the possibility that you might be a latent homosexual?

You can test it:



[

My guess is that Lou Natic does not own a penile plethysmography device or gay porn.

I have the same revulsion as Lou and i am quite sure I am not gay or bi. I think the repressed bisexuality is probably more an issue with those who actually Gay bash than it is with those who are merely uncomfortable with the idea of gay sex.

 

[S.A.M.]

Does it bother you if a guy holds your hand or kisses you on the cheek?

 

[takandjive]

It's is the people that are good but it is not something that makes good newspaper content.

Their music and food also are good.

The sincerity, inquisitiveness, intensity and humbleness with which some Middle-Easterners approach religion appeals to me as well but I can say the same for some American Christians and I have to remember that the narrow minded, arrogant, loudmouth, hate versions of Christianity and Islam are just a small step away from the beautiful intense humble versions of Christianity and Islam.

Well said.

Gayness naturally grosses people out, they (if they are male, for example) imagine themselves kissing a dude, perhaps stroking his nuts, or ravenously motorboating his masculine buns, and yeah it makes them feel physically ill. Most people are innately homophobic, some strive hard to correct this flaw in themself.
Mostly atheists, because religious types have scripture backing up their natural feelings and affirming them, they believe god hates gayness and that suits them fine since they already instinctually hate gayness, there's no reason to change. Atheists are more likely to try and understand, but this doesn't mean every atheist will succeed. I for one can't get past the motorboating.

I agree with SAMmy; you might be a latent homosexual. Most straight men I know don't think about gay men kissing that much because they don't find it interesting. I really only desire to be in relationships with men and therefore am considered heterosexual by most people, but it doesn't gross me out to think about sex with a woman.

 

[takandjive]

My guess is that Lou Natic does not own a penile plethysmography device or gay porn.

I have the same revulsion as Lou and i am quite sure I am not gay or bi. I think the repressed bisexuality is probably more an issue with those who actually Gay bash than it is with those who are merely uncomfortable with the idea of gay sex.

But you don't feel this need to talk about how natural it is to be revolted or really, seriously, you find it sooo gross.

How can you be that disgusted? You have the same equipment.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I don't even watch heterosexual porn because dude parts are involved. Lesbian or solo-female all the way.

 

[nirakar]

But you don't feel this need to talk about how natural it is to be revolted or really, seriously, you find it sooo gross.

How can you be that disgusted? You have the same equipment.

Not "sooo gross" just "so gross". Maybe revulsion was to strong of a word; but the image of male gay sex makes me a little queasy as does the image of squirming maggots or the image of my parents having sex. Normally I don't think about this uneasiness I have with gay sex but I think my uneasiness with gay sex is relevant to this topic because if my uneasiness is normal and instinctual for men then maybe it should not be a surprise that atheists are almost as homophobic as religious people are.

I have the same equipment but ewe gross, let it touch a guy, that's disgusting.

 

[takandjive]

Not "sooo gross" just "so gross". Maybe revulsion was to strong of a word; but the image of male gay sex makes me a little queasy as does the image of squirming maggots or the image of my parents having sex. Normally I don't think about this uneasiness I have with gay sex but I think my uneasiness with gay sex is relevant to this topic because if my uneasiness is normal and instinctual for men then maybe it should not be a surprise that atheists are almost as homophobic as religious people are.

I have the same equipment but ewe gross, let it touch a guy, that's disgusting.

Well, who wouldn't like chicks with women like SAM, LucySnow, VI, Orly, Shorty, Liebs, Mrow, and me around?

I understand the queasy, just not Lou's extreme distaste for it.

 

[iceaura]

Its hard to judge a society objectively when you participate in it. I remember once, I was in a bar with some Indian and American friends. My Indian friend is very passionate about these issues and she was in a heated debate with the American on the war in Iraq and the exploitative nature of American policy. He heard out her entire speech [she is waaay more eloquent and articulate than I] and at the end of it said, "now you live here and you are a part of that same exploitative society".

The first sentence is somewhat contradicted by the illustrative incident.

So the tragedy is that in order to be able to communicate our sense of injustice effectively, we cannot fight the system, so we become the system. Because if you are outside the system, your voice is irrelevant.

It was the second most depressing moment of my life.

You appear to be confusing comparative capability with comparative virtue. Western societies and their (multiple) systems are not more evil than Eastern - they are more capable, in certain significant ways. Their evils, whatever they are, are amplified and made visible by these capabilities.

So are their virtues (that capability possibly among them). In other threads you have, for example, put forth the burgeoning populations of Muslims as evidence of the success of that religion - but that religion has been around for centuries, with no such influence for most of that time. What has changed, for Muslims, is contact with, and (selective) adoption of, Western capability - better diets, medicine, education, sewer systems, roads, gadgets, etc.

Including, for example, a setup that enables you, or anyone willing to use it, to communicate your sense of injustice. Or claim that atheistic homophobia is somehow a coherent category of bigotry, which can be sensibly discussed.

Why would that be any more depressing than, say, getting a shot of Novocain at the dentist?

Of course they have. Rather difficult to appreciate through the lens of poverty, occupation and dictatorship,

Poverty and dictatorship have been norms of human life in the Middle East and southern Asia since the invention of irrigation agriculture. They are not a special new lens for viewing the world.

 

[nirakar]

Well, who wouldn't like chicks with women like SAM, LucySnow, VI, Orly, Shorty, Liebs, Mrow, and me around?

Exactly!

 

[S.A.M.]

The first sentence is somewhat contradicted by the illustrative incident.

You appear to be confusing comparative capability with comparative virtue.

Not at all, I am simply pointing out that sitting in a bar in the United States paying taxes into a system that sends troops into the homes of people halfway around the world, makes you culpable for what those troops do. Even if that home they broke into was yours.

Poverty and dictatorship have been norms of human life in the Middle East and southern Asia since the invention of irrigation agriculture. They are not a special new lens for viewing the world.

But there is a difference between say, a Mongol king establishing a court and using the people as labour and a democracy espousing human rights using dictators to maintain their hegemony. Perhaps its the overt hypocrisy that makes the notion of suggested admirable qualities unpalatable.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

...
...
...
What is the reason for homophobia in atheists?

I've never met an atheist whom appeared homophobic, but I suspect the answer (whatever it may be) is common to all humans. There seems to be a trend of you trying to associate "bad things" with people who don't accept the assertion "god exists" as truth. There are only two ways to convince an atheist "God exists". Provide evidence for it or manipulate their minds to the point where they value the psychological satiation of fantasy above truth.

 

[swarm]

Reg: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers.
Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg: Yes.
Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg: All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?
Xerxes: The aqueduct.
Reg: Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That's true.
Masked Activist: And the sanitation!
Stan: Oh yes... sanitation, Reg, you remember what the city used to be like.
Reg: All right, I'll grant you that the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done...
Matthias: And the roads...
Reg: (sharply) Well yes obviously the roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the aqueduct, the sanitation and the roads...
Another Masked Activist: Irrigation...
Other Masked Voices: Medicine... Education... Health...
Reg: Yes... all right, fair enough...
Activist Near Front: And the wine...
Omnes: Oh yes! True!
Francis: Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if the Romans left, Reg.
Masked Activist at Back: Public baths!
Stan: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now.
Francis: Yes, they certainly know how to keep order... (general nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this.

(more general murmurs of agreement)
Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
Xerxes: Brought peace!
Reg: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) What!? Oh... (scornfully) Peace, yes... shut up!

 

[S.A.M.]

<looks around for the Romans>