Holy texts should be respected by scholars

[S.A.M.]

BS. If that were the case, you can't argue a terrorists taken context of the Quran.

I most certainly would. A terrorist breaks both the moral and natural laws. These are the limits of man's power in Islamic philosophy and breaking them is automatically a sin.

Nonsense, there is no free will in Islam, hence that statement is false. Predestination is totally predominant, and there are verses in the Quran that state this implicitly.

Since I am not a fundamentalist I choose to disagree.

Moreover, the concept of free-will is self evident in the concept of accountability. Accountability only exists when you have choice. If there is no choice, there is no freedom and hence no accountability. The Quran clearly declares:

[99:7-8]So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom shall see it. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom shall see it.

This is accountability.

No, you don't try, you avoid, just as you're doing with the "Snake."

Really? I can only explain what I know; if you expect me to have some inside information then you are mistaken. There is a reason it is called "faith" you know.

You should know, it's spelled out for you in black and white in the Quran. Allah is the creator of all things, therefore he created diseases to scourge mankind. He also created all the other things which are serious detriments to mankind.

Again, since I am not a fundamentalist, I choose to disagree with your conclusions.

If you don't agree with that, then you are no Muslim.

Fortunately for both of us, it is not up to you to determine whether I am a Muslim or not; nor do I claim to be perfect. I do my best, which is all anyone can ask.

 

[(Q)]

I most certainly would. A terrorist breaks both the moral and natural laws. These are the limits of man's power in Islamic philosophy and breaking them is automatically a sin.

That's merely your perception of it. The terrorist simply gleans what he/she considers relevant to their needs, as do all theists. You can't blame them for following the philosophy of Islam.

Since I am not a fundamentalist I choose to disagree.

Then, you disagree with Allah, not me.

Moreover, the concept of free-will is self evident in the concept of accountability. Accountability only exists when you have choice. If there is no choice, there is no freedom and hence no accountability. The Quran clearly declares:

[99:7-8]So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom shall see it. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom shall see it.

This is accountability.

You know very well that the Quran claims total predestination of the universe and that events only happen because Allah chooses to make those events occur. Don't try to feed me with some other BS you've made up.

Really? I can only explain what I know; if you expect me to have some inside information then you are mistaken. There is a reason it is called "faith" you know.

How very convenient, another typical fundamentalist ploy.

Again, since I am not a fundamentalist, I choose to disagree with your conclusions.

Then, you chosse to disagree with the Quran and Allah, making you one bigass hypocrite. But then, I already knew that.

Fortunately for both of us, it is not up to you to determine whether I am a Muslim or not; nor do I claim to be perfect. I do my best, which is all anyone can ask.

Another theist ploy. You claim to be a Muslim, yet you choose to disagree with the Quran and Allah, then you whine about "not knowing" when you choose not to answer questions.

 

[S.A.M.]

That's merely your perception of it. The terrorist simply gleans what he/she considers relevant to their needs, as do all theists. You can't blame them for following the philosophy of Islam.

I can; the philosophy is very clear on the moral laws; its only those who selectively read the Quran who are unclear about it; and I would call them politicians rather than philosophers.

Then, you disagree with Allah, not me.

I'll take my chances with Allah. Him, I can trust.

You know very well that the Quran claims total predestination of the universe and that events only happen because Allah chooses to make those events occur. Don't try to feed me with some other BS you've made up.

Since you know so much better than me what is in the Quran, its pointless to argue.

How very convenient, another typical fundamentalist ploy.

We do love that word.

Then, you chosse to disagree with the Quran and Allah, making you one bigass hypocrite. But then, I already knew that.

Rather a happy hypocrite than a sour atheist

Another theist ploy. You claim to be a Muslim, yet you choose to disagree with the Quran and Allah, then you whine about "not knowing" when you choose not to answer questions.

I'm not going to take offense at the opinion of someone who is so obviously prejudiced.

 

[(Q)]

I can; the philosophy is very clear on the moral laws; its only those who selectively read the Quran who are unclear about it; and I would call them politicians rather than philosophers.

You should get the terminology correct, they are called Muslims, whether you agree with it or not. All Muslims selectively read the Quran and glean whatever suits there needs, as you've done yourself.

I'll take my chances with Allah. Him, I can trust.

Your response is hypocritical and disingenuous. Another typical theist ploy of having your cake and eating it too.

Since you know so much better than me what is in the Quran, its pointless to argue.

Another theist ploy. Clearly, you're cornered and have nothing to say in your defence.

I'm not going to take offense at the opinion of someone who is so obviously prejudiced.

Yet, more theists ploys, how pathetic.

 

[S.A.M.]

Good then we're agreed.

I consider you too prejudiced to waste any further time on you and you are convinced of my hypocrisy and could not possibly want to waste your energies any further.

 

[(Q)]

Good then we're agreed.

Yes, we are agreed that you're another typical hypocritical theist with no arguable position who tosses out peurile insults the moment they're unable to answer questions.

I consider you too prejudiced to waste any further time on you and you are convinced of my hypocrisy and could not possibly want to waste your energies any further.

Agreed, you're completely indoctrinated into your religion and have lost touch with reality. Me prejudice towards Islam has nothing to do with that.

 

[KennyJC]

I'll take my chances with Allah. Him, I can trust.

Well I just thank my lucky stars he doesn't exist, otherwise I (as an infidel) would find myself put over Allah's lap to get my bum lashed for eternity.

Although I can't remember if I would get my bum slapped, or suffer in a lake of fire... I really must read the Quran to find out my fate.

 

[S.A.M.]

KennyJC:

I haven't heard about the bum slapping before. ( never hear bum in quite the same context in the US, either)

Is there a reference for that or were you just fantasizing?

 

[(Q)]

Is there a reference for that or were you just fantasizing?

Islam offers a choice of fantasies, take your pick.

 

[superluminal]

Has anyone noticed that if you take "Islam" and rearrange the letters to say "Il sam" that's "The sam" in italian? Hmmm...

 

[S.A.M.]

Its ok supe; I'm not going to debate with him anymore.

He doesn't want to debate; just be nasty.

And I've had all I can take.

I will debate with anyone else though

 

[superluminal]

Its ok supe; I'm not going to debate with him anymore.

He doesn't want to debate; just be nasty.

And I've had all I can take.

I will debate with anyone else though

I thought a bit of light hearted humor might be appropriate at this point...

 

[S.A.M.]

the operative word being "heart"

 

[(Q)]

Its ok supe; I'm not going to debate with him anymore.

He doesn't want to debate; just be nasty.

And I've had all I can take.

I will debate with anyone else though

That's complete BS, you have not been debating. Please don't lie.

 

[superluminal]

I'm outta here...

 

[S.A.M.]

As I was saying supe (and ONLY supe), there is no point talking to someone who has already made up his mind not only about what other people should or should not believe; but also has had his views colored to such an extent by his prejudices that he is doing the very thing he detests in others, i.e. allowing his bias to color his rationality. Such that, all the problems in the world seem to him to stem from his bias and he is willing to forego rationality rather than admit that he may be wrong. In addition, he completely ignores any evidence which may contradict his preconceived notions, another attribute he claims to abhor in the non-rational theists.

In other words, he is his own worst enemy and there is no point in flogging a dead horse.

 

[(Q)]

As I was saying supe (and ONLY supe), there is no point talking to someone who has already made up his mind not only about what other people should or should not believe; but also has had his views colored to such an extent by his prejudices that he is doing the very thing he detests in others, i.e. allowing his bias to color his rationality. Such that, all the problems in the world seem to him to stem from his bias and he is willing to forego rationality rather than admit that he may be wrong. In addition, he completely ignores any evidence which may contradict his preconceived notions, another attribute he claims to abhor in the non-rational theists.

In other words, he is his own worst enemy and there is no point in flogging a dead horse.

Too funny, you've described Muslims to the tee.

 

[S.A.M.]

I should add here supe that said person is also selective in reading and comprehension as the words "ONLY supe" are brushed aside as conveniently as any ideas which contravene prejudices of said person

 

[(Q)]

Muslims... described... to... a... tee...

You really do know yourself.

 

[superluminal]

i.e. allowing his bias to color his rationality. Such that, all the problems in the world seem to him to stem from his bias and he is willing to forego rationality rather than admit that he may be wrong. In addition, he completely ignores any evidence which may contradict his preconceived notions, another attribute he claims to abhor in the non-rational theists.

In other words, he is his own worst enemy and there is no point in flogging a dead horse.

It is interesting that theists and atheists alike have the same perspective or sense of frustration, regarding the others views. You will remember sam that I was a raving mad dog who ate a god and barfed it up (till you showed up and ruined my fun by being all nice and everything...

). The problem with all of this as I see it, is that both sides want the other to admit that they are irrational, and that's never going to happen. Still being a devout atheist I recognise that theism is a natural human state as evidenced by history since before written records. Atheism as a group force is a relatively new thing. We're like kids with a new toy. The intellectual thrill of debating this kind of thing is fun. It's when it turns nasty that the problems start. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else here. But some people just... ooohh... make me soooo mad. I want to smush them!